Should I raid with a guild that uses Loot Council?

[Supercool]

The short answer for loot council: In guilds that are actually downing bosses and getting stuff done, loot council is doing its job, and there's no point whining that you didn't get a drop you wanted because more kills = more progression = more loot for you down the line.

People stress out about loot when it's scarce. When loot is plentiful, people stop caring.

[Rusken]

Yeah LC is pretty much the worst unless you've been with the guild for months/years or you're the GM's friend. Simple master loot is far superior for guilds that aren't full of Mythic ego or personal for everyone else.

[Zoldor]

Wouldn't the best system currently be personal loot with a council? That way more loot and its tradeable? Not being a jerk just generally wondering.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't the best system currently be personal loot with a council? That way more loot and its tradeable? Not being a jerk just generally wondering.

only tradeble when is same or lower ilvl then whatn you have , and thats not gonna happen often when raid has only been out for a few days yet.

[Drefan]

If you only raid to get loot, go with personal. If you raid to beat the raids as a team you use loot council so that the raid gets the most benefit out of each loot.
Wouldn't it suck if your bis trinket ended up in the hands on someone else, just because its personal loot and they would be unable to trade it since its progress?

[Doomislav]

I think loot council is the best option. Unless the leadership is poor. The criteria that the loot council uses to determine which gear goes where should be transparent and fair.

[Tijuana]

I have been out of the raiding scene for years and from what I am reading personal loot seems like a better overall gearing option for entire guilds but on my servers the only guilds recruiting are all loot council based. I am wondering if the Inner circle buddy system will be prevalent and something I should just walk away from.

I joined this one guild recently since all 5 of the only mythic guilds recruiting all used loot council but has anyone had alot of good experiences with loot council or should I just cut my ties? I did notice that the officers were all grouped together doing mythic modes seeming to exclude other members but that is natural to want to group up with your closer knit friends so that has no bearing on this issue. Just seems ripe for abuse over personal loot or DKP.

I don't get people who think this way. Loot is not a trophy, it's a tool. If you want to commit to working together with a group of players, you should not view loot as something that only happens one time. If your only goal is to get loot, why do you even raid? If you show up every raid night, you will get loot under any system.

[cFortyfive]

Obviously loot council is good in better guilds. Heroic shitters or rank bajillion mythic raiders obviously don't really need it.

They constitute such a small % of us all

Not that I would ever constitute myself being a part of the general unwashed pleb masses to begin with - why would it make a difference to you what kind of lootsystem we use ?

[Choda]

You don't know anything about my loot distribution experience or situation. Don't bother quoting me if you're directing your post at a windmill. When did I ever mention "getting loot myself"? Learn to read, kid.

In all our correspondences you gave the impression that you aren't a raid leader, and as such don't distribute loot, ergo, you're talking from a personal standpoint, i.e. your own loot, the one you get.

I am telling you that a proper loot council puts the needs of the guild / raid over the individual's. For that to work though everyone needs to fully understand that loot is just a means to an end, trivial compared to the actual raid and boss progress.

Complaining about a loot system strongly implies the person isn't of that type.

[Quesenek]

Personally I don't mind if a group uses loot council, I really don't even mind if I don't get loot as long as we clear things. However if I was in a group that was giving loot to their buddies for no other reason I would just leave and use the logs to get into another guild.

[Veshx]

We have used loot council for 8 years.
If you are worried about abuse and not getting gear then don't raid.

If some one said this shit to me before they tried to join my guild they would never be considered for a single piece.

If every day you go outside and you only meet 1 asshole, then that person is an asshole.
If every day you go outside and EVERYONE is an asshole, maybe you're the asshole.


Here, I'll translate this for you since you're soaking in your almighty elitist funk:

If one person comes in the guild and asks about how loot is distributed/has concerns about it, and then later leaves because it doesn't work. Maybe its them.
If multiple people come in the guild and ask about how loot is distributed/has concerns about, and then later leaves because it doesn't work. Maybe it's you.

You should first look at why so many people are leaving your guild within the first 3 weeks of being in it, and fix that problem instead of blaming it on "oh its their problem that it didn't work" Fix your faults before you start placing the blame else where.




ON TOPIC: Loot council can go both ways. It can be good, people can be fair and honest. Or it can be bad, where people jerk each other off and give it to their friends, which I am 99% certain is what the guy I quoted does.

[Daffan]

Aaaaand this is why you avoid guilds / people who use loot council.

But the top guilds use LC

lol

[Jewsco]

But the top guilds use LC

lol

And that is what % of the player base? Just because it works for them in no way does it work for all. Wanna be guilds are the worst abusers of things like this.

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The original claim wasn't made by me. So Citation on your outlandish claims, so stop saying them.

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The real issue here is the bad leadership, not loot council.

Yes loot council is a tool used to make raiding better and can and does at times work great but it is who uses the tool and how they choose to use it that makes the tool good or bad. Just because guild x can and does use it well by no means mean that guild y can. Knowing that the players are human and humans are greedy, like power and can be vindictive a system that needs the leaders to be fair and honest is not the best system for all by a long shot.

[Sansnom]

Guilds using Loot Council routinely employ bias. It's been on the books for years. Leaving a reply like you did just cinches and exposes the reasoning behind it all. You're issuing forth an autocratic system where you feel entitled to maintain control over your personal interests at the expense of others time and efforts.

If you're going to join a guild, join one that makes use of loot distributing systems that revolve around fairness. DKP, Suicide Kings, etc.

Not necessary. Every loot distribution has its strength and weakness. And strength and weakness is also a personal opinion. This is also applies to what others consider to be fair, which is also personal. You may see it as unfair but the LC may actually been a fair and unbias decision.

It really depends on what the player is looking for. If a player is looking for the clearing challenge and clearing bosses over acquiring loot, then loot council is one of the better system. If the player is interested in personal progression in terms of loot acquisition, then personal loot or round robin would be a better choice.

Even round robin can be open to contention.

[Dasani]

Most guilds that use loot council do so because they are progression oriented guilds.

Progression oriented guilds tend to give loot to who they, as a council of presumably experienced and knowledgeable players, feel would get the most use out of that gear.

They prioritize the guild as a whole getting further, faster, because that is their entire purpose for raiding.

You can disagree with their decision and feel like a random drop is better for you or your buddy than the person they gave it to, you might feel they are "abusing" it to give loot to people they like or whatever, but the fact is this almost never happens. They award loot based on future progression being forefront in the consideration.

HOWEVER, if you are a flakey, disloyal scrub boat like you seem to be with the "i want loot, i dont care about my guild" attitude you seem to have, then yeah you will be very very low on the priority list and even if a BIS item drops for you, they may give it to someone else just because that other person is more likely to show up to raid and less likely to leave over something as fucking stupid as wanting loot.

People like you even asking these kinds of questions are already disloyal and selfish, no guild would award you loot over someone who has been with the guild and is KNOWN to be reliable and put the guild first for years. It has nothing to do with favoritism and simply liking the other person more than you, it's because they KNOW for a fact, 100% that person will use any loot they are given to help advance the guild whereas someone like you seems far more concerned with getting your item level up and wanting gear before other people than doing what is best for the guild. That is where people mistakenly perceive bias, it's because they're selfish and unproven and then everyone's suspicions about them are proven true that they are not worth giving loot to when they rage quit because they don't get an item. You have to earn that trust and that place in the priority, it isn't just handed to you because you feel like you deserve it.

But of course this is for progression guilds. Casuals do whatever and they suffer for it in efficiency but it sounds more like that is up your alley.

[ElDoorO]

You couldn't be more wrong.

Back when doing somewhat of a LC in Mythic BRF, I kept a spreadsheet of people who won items so I could make sure it was fair.

But you're just talking out of your ass at this point.

You seem awfully defensive for some reason. Any particular reason why?
If you've only been raiding since WoD then you have much to learn, my fellow MMOC poster. I wish you the best of luck!

[Dsc]

I'd love to see a poll with links to armory pages in this thread. Its the age old question "which loot system should I use?"
IMO it depends on the people and what kind of guild/raiding you are doing.

I've been to damn near the top of the mountain, never raiding anything but DKP or EDKP, but some of the guilds we raced against both on server (some had been around since Vanilla) and off, have used LC to great success.

I never wanted or needed to raid under those constraints, I'm a firm believer that top guilds despite competitiveness, are in it to win it. (40 hr raid weeks? yes been there, I knew/know those folks very well at times.) we made thigs work out with DKP. ( heck yes I hoarded DKP for dual solaces ) but our Val'anyr went elsewhere without drama. (and shoot ten years later I'm still friends with the raid lead, a gal who got one val, and the druid who did too!

funny how that works. earned DKP it works, and gets results.

[prwraith]

A good loot council is the best thing for any guild. My old loot council was so good and so consistent, that the regular raiders were all within 1 ilvl of eachother by mid expansion. Nobody ever felt cheated.

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That said any guild who uses EPGP should have the guild leader shot and burned alive.

[Deleted]

In all our correspondences you gave the impression that you aren't a raid leader, and as such don't distribute loot, ergo, you're talking from a personal standpoint, i.e. your own loot, the one you get.

I am telling you that a proper loot council puts the needs of the guild / raid over the individual's. For that to work though everyone needs to fully understand that loot is just a means to an end, trivial compared to the actual raid and boss progress.

Complaining about a loot system strongly implies the person isn't of that type.

I said don't quote me, Don Quijote. Learn to fucking read posts before replying to them.

[Daffan]

And that is what % of the player base? Just because it works for them in no way does it work for all. Wanna be guilds are the worst abusers of things like this.

I only wrote my reply because people said they were always fail.