20% nerf to Barrage

[sarym13]

Worth using as Single Target still with MM or should we do Crows now?

[Chickensoup23]

Where did you see the nerf?

If it's true, I believe crows would take over 1-2 targets scenarios.

[Bitturs]

Where did you see the nerf?

If it's true, I believe crows would take over 1-2 targets scenarios.

'tis true. I probably cant post links, but the blue post (currently on front page tracker) with Tuesday's changes was posted.

[Kjarl Grimblood]

welp, looks like im no longer gonna top dps charts in raids as my barrage used to be the second strongest skill according to dps meter. gg

[Feanoro]

"Damn, the heart attack inducing new animation didn't get them to stop using it, nerf bat it!"

Or you could learn to make competitive, fun talents. Naaaaaaah.

[semiprodota]

and so it begins..

[Slicer299]

Where did you see the nerf?

If it's true, I believe crows would take over 1-2 targets scenarios.

Def not for 2 target, it shouldn't even be better for single target. Based on my personal gear, Barrage hits the main target for about 740k before any additional modifiers like if it Crits. But Crows hits for 1.4 million. Just under twice as much, but Barrage can be cast 3 times as often. Take 20% off that 740K, and it takes it down to 592K. Multiple that by the 3 times I can cast it for every 1 cast of MoC and it does 1.77 million damage. 300K more than MoC.

And with Barrage scaling better with Mastery, it's lead over MoC will continue to grow with higher gear levels and prefered stat optimization.

[Deleted]

Def not for 2 target, it shouldn't even be better for single target. Based on my personal gear, Barrage hits the main target for about 740k before any additional modifiers like if it Crits. But Crows hits for 1.4 million. Just under twice as much, but Barrage can be cast 3 times as often. Take 20% off that 740K, and it takes it down to 592K. Multiple that by the 3 times I can cast it for every 1 cast of MoC and it does 1.77 million damage. 300K more than MoC.

And with Barrage scaling better with Mastery, it's lead over MoC will continue to grow with higher gear levels and prefered stat optimization.

So you decided to not count the foca, the channel time, and the AiS you will be able to cast, etc...

Ok

[Tehterokkar]

Def not for 2 target, it shouldn't even be better for single target. Based on my personal gear, Barrage hits the main target for about 740k before any additional modifiers like if it Crits. But Crows hits for 1.4 million. Just under twice as much, but Barrage can be cast 3 times as often. Take 20% off that 740K, and it takes it down to 592K. Multiple that by the 3 times I can cast it for every 1 cast of MoC and it does 1.77 million damage. 300K more than MoC.

And with Barrage scaling better with Mastery, it's lead over MoC will continue to grow with higher gear levels and prefered stat optimization.

Your math is so wrong.

You are forgetting focus costs and the fact that with amoc, you can use 2 aimed shots for free because of the extra focus and time you get by not channeling barrage for 2s.

[Ghilap]

Where did you see the nerf?

If it's true, I believe crows would take over 1-2 targets scenarios.

The nerf was out today I think.
Also, wouldn't Volley be better in single target since you can keep your default rotation, keeping the dps stable specially in movement situations, while Murder of Crows focus cost might interfere a bit with the current rotation? I would agree with MoC in 2 target situations though, as long as you can get full value off it with the reset when the target dies (thinking of Cenarius as an example where you keep swapping into new adds that are coming up).

[satimy]

Does Crows scale off of MM mastery? If not wont barrage still take the cake eventually?

[WeaszelB]

Does Crows scale off of MM mastery? If not wont barrage still take the cake eventually?

It scales with mastery.

[Deleted]

On a 6 minute Nythendra encounter I was able to push out 16m damage with Barrage alone, even with this nerf I think it is difficult for MoC to catch up, despite other benefits (such as lower focus cost and you being able to cast other things while using it). Take that with a large pinch of salt though, because I haven't bothered to do any math behind it. Best thing we can do is wait for sims to update and try things out for ourselves.

Or maybe I'll just show up to next weeks' Nythendra with MoC instead of Barrage and see for myself

[Deleted]

If we dont use barrage we're gonna have to use Volley. What else are you planing to use for Aoe? Sidewinders? :S

[Leakage]

If we dont use barrage we're gonna have to use Volley. What else are you planing to use for Aoe? Sidewinders? :S

you're still going to use barrage as mm for aoe

the whole reason our spec is strong because of spread aoe/cleave

we're still going to be one of the best specs at that

[Madh4tter]

it checks out single target wise because Windburst getting stronger with mastery.

[Dracodraco]

Typically barrage is cast while moving if you time it right on most bosses. So while crow would do the damage while you're moving, you're still not able to do anything else so the saved cast time doesn't really matter. The focus cost isn't that big of a deal.

Mate that's bullshit. 150 focus isn't "a big deal"? That's 15 seconds of passive regen. Losing out on 6 seconds of time you could be casting something else is "irrelevant" because you'd have been moving? Maybe in an ideal scenario (and even then, MM has plenty of instant casts you can line up around movement - sidewinder, marked, AMOC, lock and load procs etc).

It's quite simple; Your math is horseshit because you're discounting huge differences as "doesn't really matter".

[Dracodraco]

150 focus? It costs 60 focus and unless you have hunter's mark up, it's better to cast aimed shot and you're often waiting for sidewinders to come off CD. Again, if you're mostly using it while moving then you wouldn't be casting anything else anyway since you can't aimed shot while moving. I don't think I attempted to do any math so I'm not sure what math you're saying is horseshit. Regardless, from actual experience, barrage would out perform crows on even single target fights.

1: I can see you're not attempting to do math. Let me fucking help you when you can't do it on your own:

Over 1 minute:
AMOC: 1 Use, 30 focus cost, 1.5M damage.
Barrage: 3 Uses, 180 focus cost, 2.4M damage (after nerf).

Subtract 30 focus cost from the 180 for *3* uses of barrage over 1 minute. You're left with spending 150 extra focus every minute, picking barrage.

Likewise, time spent:
AMOC: 1 Global every minute.
Barrage: 7-9 seconds depending on haste / procs etc when you cast it on channels.

So, in summary:

Barrage gives 900K extra damage AT THE COST of 150 focus (3x aimed shots) and at least 7 seconds of time spent casting (also more than 3x aimed shots).
Concidering my average aimed shot in 850 gear hits for 350K (PLUS potential artifact procs if you're at your second golden), it means that AMOC is a net gain on EVERYTHING except mobility. DPS wise, it's the right choise for singletarget.

#math. Learn to use it.

2: What I'm saying is horseshit is your entire "you'd be moving anyway / 150 focus isn't a lot" claims.

[Youn]

So, is your AMOC stacking bullseye as quickly as Barrage? Can you add that into your math please.

[Drahzere]

So, is your AMOC stacking bullseye as quickly as Barrage? Can you add that into your math please.

You're kidding me right?

Whelp guys I guess barrage will always be the better choice. >.>