Prot warriors, worried for upcomming nerfs?

[Deleted]

I only wonder how hard they nerf IP considering they already said it is going to be nerfed really soon

[Darkke]

They are going to nerf IP "a bit" so probably reduce the damage ignored to 40% of damage taken, and reduce the size of the shield by 50%. Then they are going to buff damage of Heroic Leap by 10% to compensate.

[Jastall]

Well looks like I spoke too soon, eh.

I suppose one can only hope now that the nerf is indeed ''a bit'' (10-15% or so) and that Blizzard doesn't take a sledgehammer to it.

[Toybox]

I actually am a tad worried, yeah.

I decided to check out logs for our Ursoc Heroic kill. My co-tank is a Guardian Druid. Unmitigated damage taken looks like this...

Warrior: 38.59m
Druid: 59.30m

While healing done by the druid (not including Absorbs as that's deducted in the "Unmitigated Damage Taken" part anyway).

Druid: 18.76m (40th percentile).

My healing percentage was 90th perecentile, meaning I was more effective at using IP than the Druid was at using his mitigation, yet he only took 40.54m damage that required external healing, compared to my 38.59m. That 2m gap is bridged by more effective healing from him.

Other fights are harder to look at because we usually have different jobs, but Dragons of Nightmare isn't much different (although that fight has much lower tank damage).

A nerf to Ignore Pain could put us behind if we're not compensated in another way. Personally, a return to WoD mechanics wouldn't bother me at all.

[Shieldarm]

I actually am a tad worried, yeah.

I decided to check out logs for our Ursoc Heroic kill. My co-tank is a Guardian Druid. Unmitigated damage taken looks like this...

Warrior: 38.59m
Druid: 59.30m

While healing done by the druid (not including Absorbs as that's deducted in the "Unmitigated Damage Taken" part anyway).

Druid: 18.76m (40th percentile).

My healing percentage was 90th perecentile, meaning I was more effective at using IP than the Druid was at using his mitigation, yet he only took 40.54m damage that required external healing, compared to my 38.59m. That 2m gap is bridged by more effective healing from him.

Other fights are harder to look at because we usually have different jobs, but Dragons of Nightmare isn't much different (although that fight has much lower tank damage).

A nerf to Ignore Pain could put us behind if we're not compensated in another way. Personally, a return to WoD mechanics wouldn't bother me at all.

Someone the other day posted a log of H Ursoc with a prot pally tank. The amount of effective damage taken was virtually identical.

[Toybox]

I'm not surprised, and given the way IP falls off in effectiveness versus higher damage (the extra rage from DTPS doesn't cover it if it's excessive), I can already see us falling a bit behind when going into mythics without stronger gear than the other tanks.

I know IP is ridiculously strong in trivial content, and I'm sure there's a way to address that while still keeping us strong for raiding (perhaps have the max IP scale a bit based on targets HP), but an untested nerf could seriously screw us over.

[Spiffums]

There not gonna nerf or mess with ignore OPain. That would with the class mechanics and only something like that will happen in the next expansion.

There is a blue post saying it's working more strongly than they had intended.....it will get nerfed sadly. Just more tank nerfs till we are all relent on healers healing us 24/7.

[HumbleDuck]

Well, apparently I spoke too soon.
Here I am looking at logs, scratching my head and whispering to my self, why? Where is the reason to this nerf? Why can't I figure out?

I mean if by "a bit" they mean like 3-5%, sure, I can understand, but anything more seems strange.

[Monteverdi]

Warrior tanks outperform other tank classes by a longshot. Some DK posts on the forums complaining about it, the post becomes popular, and thus we have a nerf.

What needs to be happening is finding a way to bring other tanks up to the level warriors are at rather than screwing Warriors over. Buffs, rather than nerfs.

So no Warriors are getting nerfed and they're not going to be happy. Meanwhile it does nothing to change the fact that DKs are barely scraping by with broken mechanics. The tanking community needs to, as a whole, find a way to communicate constructively to Blizzard what is actually needed, and find a way to get them to listen.

[Sammonoske]

• Protection
o Vengeance (Talent) Rage cost reduction reduced to 35%.
o Intercept Rage generation reduced to 10.
o Shield Slam Rage generation reduced to 10.

Great, it wasn't too long ago that rage gen was buffed and now it got nerfed.

[Shieldarm]

For those curious, a 35% change to Vengeance makes it so that IP would be 39 rage, and FR would be 19.5 (round to 20 or 19?). At most, it's saving 2 rage on a full IP, not accounting for crits.

I'm not sure how to feel about this... And the reduced generation on SS and Intercept is only going to make us even more dependent on getting hit... I'm not sure if this is going to make Haste even more important, because you generate less rage... Or less important, because SS generates less rage, which was a major part of why we wanted Haste.

[Sorshen]

Shield Slam Rage generation reduced to 10.

What.
The.
Fuck.

[kiklion]

For those curious, a 35% change to Vengeance makes it so that IP would be 39 rage, and FR would be 19.5 (round to 20 or 19?). At most, it's saving 2 rage on a full IP, not accounting for crits.

This is what annoys me about the changes. Rage loss? I can adapt. I like the reduction to intercept because it normalizes how we perform on fights where we can intercept on cd vs fights where we can't intercept.

But this change completely guts the talent 'vengeance' from a livability point of view. Probably going to end up going Booming Voice on single target and Into the Fray on multitarget, unless it starts simming well to get crit and go ultimatum/vengeance since ultimatum was buffed relative to the nerf.

[Veyloris]

I don't understand why people are asking for single target DPS buffs. We are by far the best tank at single target DPS

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...nks&dataset=50

We could use a bit of an AoE DPS buff compared to the other tanks, but single target wise we are absolutely fine.

in what world is 50th percentile a good measure of class performance? warriors are by no means terrible single target, but they are absolutely not the best.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ks&dataset=100

[Darkke]

in what world is 50th percentile a good measure of class performance? warriors are by no means terrible single target, but they are absolutely not the best.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ks&dataset=100

Looking at the 50th percentile is just as flawed as is looking at the absolute max results. Even at the 90th percentile Warriors are still at the top of single target damage and even the 95th percentile is very close but warriors are still at the top.

[jettzypher]

I must have missed the part where protection was swimming in tons of rage, warranting a nerf to their rage generation. The changes they're implementing for this round are completely mind boggling. Right along with the change to EtW for Arms.

[Deleted]

i mean generally speaking they are doing the opposite of what's needed, so that's funny

warrior has way too little pain generation when soloing and way too much when taking loads of damage -> let's reduce baseline pain gen and not touch actual rage generation from damage taken or IP scaling
dh is way too good on easy content and way too squishy on hard content -> let's nerf the one ability that scales with damage taken
brm is underplayed and virtually invisible -> let's pretend they don't exist and not touch them at all

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Anuibus]

Vengeance is now useless defensively unless ultimatum procs. zzzz

[Veyloris]

Looking at the 50th percentile is just as flawed as is looking at the absolute max results. Even at the 90th percentile Warriors are still at the top of single target damage and even the 95th percentile is very close but warriors are still at the top.

It's really not nearly as flawed. Just because a class is easier to execute at the 75% or 50% doesn't make the numbers there an indication of the class's strength, rather it's skill floor.

Looking at the 100th or 99th percentiles is infinitely better, because 9/10 that's where you're finding the best demographic of human players to look at balance. I don't really care what some rando at the 50th percentile does damagewise or survivability-wise. They literally don't have a strong grasp on how to play the class, or they wouldn't be the definition of average. Analyzing the 50th/75th percentile is analyzing what average players are doing, not what the class is capable of.