Should I raid with a guild that uses Loot Council?

[Hiricine]

If we're talking two systems where the in game mechanics are identical, loot council really is the best way to go, and generally corrects the abnormalities you see in other ones. However, personal loot has the HUGE advantage that it distributes loot much more proportionately based on your raid comp than regular old drops, and with trades will generally allow you to gear faster.

[Deleted]

if u want to progress as a guild there isn't other option just LC. u fallow the usual trend dps>tanks>=healers. if u want to get gear and take longer for progress then go PL. a sidenote the guilds who don t use LC and addons wich show all the players gear and stuff can t evar be on top.

[Jewsco]

if u want to progress as a guild there isn't other option just LC. u fallow the usual trend dps>tanks>=healers. if u want to get gear and take longer for progress then go PL. a sidenote the guilds who don t use LC and addons wich show all the players gear and stuff can t evar be on top.

Got a hint for you not all guilds will ever be top. Trying and using a system that works for the top won't work for most guilds. You do know top guilds make up what 1% of the player base? Thinking everyone is top is the mentality that ruins most guilds.

[Deleted]

I've played in five different guilds ranked 30 to 200 for extended periods of time, from Vanilla to Legion, and in my opinion every single one had a corrupt loot council.

It's just human nature.

I still raid in a guild with a loot council. It's the way 100% of even semi-serious raiding guilds handle loot. But it's also 100% corrupt. People might get their 'fair share' of loot, but whenever a decision is fifty fifty, or a drop is truly rare, the guys in the inner circle get the items, and it has nothing to do with helping the guild or maximising efficiency, and everything to do with selfishness.

[Magicpot]

We have used loot council for 8 years.
If you are worried about abuse and not getting gear then don't raid.

If some one said this shit to me before they tried to join my guild they would never be considered for a single piece.

And I have successfully avoided guilds with loot council for 11 years.

We just do normal roll. MS > OS > Mog, and if two roll the same, they roll again. Has worked nicely ever since.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I mean with a topic thats as subjective and purely based on opinion as is LC bad. Yes our opinions are valid, with almost 12k posts you should be able to understand that.

My proof is my experience of being in more than 10 LC guilds that abused the system. Don't believe me or discredit me? I honestly don't care, its an opinion and other share my opinion. Have a good day.

I'm discrediting the statistics like "9/10 guild that use this fail!" and others that people have been using. Don't say things like that without proof. Personal experience is one thing, but thats all it really is... Objectively though, there is nothing wrong with LC. The issue is with your guild leadership. If they are going to "steal" your loot and give it to their "perpetually under-performing besties" .. then thats an issue with THEIR DISHONESTY. Not LC.

People have also made the claim that PLs existence is proof of LC being bad.. but again, no proof of that at all. Your personal feelings on the subject don't really matter. When you make claims like that, you need some proof. My only claims reflect that of my experience, but you guys are making claims about statistics and things that NEED backing up to be valid arguments.

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I don't get people who think this way. Loot is not a trophy, it's a tool. If you want to commit to working together with a group of players, you should not view loot as something that only happens one time. If your only goal is to get loot, why do you even raid? If you show up every raid night, you will get loot under any system.

Here is the real issue; the division between people that just want loot, and people who want to down bosses.

[Jewsco]

I'm discrediting the statistics like "9/10 guild that use this fail!" and others that people have been using. Don't say things like that without proof. Personal experience is one thing, but thats all it really is... Objectively though, there is nothing wrong with LC. The issue is with your guild leadership. If they are going to "steal" your loot and give it to their "perpetually under-performing besties" .. then thats an issue with THEIR DISHONESTY. Not LC.

People have also made the claim that PLs existence is proof of LC being bad.. but again, no proof of that at all. Your personal feelings on the subject don't really matter. When you make claims like that, you need some proof. My only claims reflect that of my experience, but you guys are making claims about statistics and things that NEED backing up to be valid arguments.

Yet you have never shown any statistical info in any of your posts and only talk about your personal experiences with loot council and ninja looting overall and claim it rarely happens since it rarely has happened to you. Where is any proof in that but your own personal ones? Is it easy talking out of both sides of your mouth or does your jaw hurt a lot?

[Choda]

I said don't quote me, Don Quijote. Learn to fucking read posts before replying to them.

When someone insults me I am less than likely to listen to their demands... It's a silly habit, I know.

[Devilyaki]

The majority of gear last raid teir I won was with bonus rolls >_>

[Deleted]

[...] Here is the real issue; the division between people that just want loot, and people who want to down bosses.

Guess in which camp all the PL people and OP belong. They need the carrot on the stick.

Even with corrupt leadership, you can use the logs of your kills to leapfrog into another guild. Killing bosses is what matters. As long as you're not unreasonably undergeared you can get a place in many serious guild just by proving that you're able to perform.

[Jewsco]

Guess in which camp all the PL people and OP belong. They need the carrot on the stick.

Even with corrupt leadership, you can use the logs of your kills to leapfrog into another guild. Killing bosses is what matters. As long as you're not unreasonably undergeared you can get a place in many serious guild just by proving that you're able to perform.

Do you currently play the game or have you played the last few expansions? If the answer is yes then you would know that gear>>> than skill in game now. And if loot council is not giving me any gear how will a person do better? Also without any gear how will a new guild take me? Do you see the in game ilevel requirements to do much of anything? So without the gear one is stuck doing worse than those with it and if the loot council only gives loot to those doing well one is stuck to never get gear you do get that right?
Not saying it does happen all the time but loot councils can and do build in a catch 22 there

[Soisoisoi]

I've played in five different guilds ranked 30 to 200 for extended periods of time, from Vanilla to Legion, and in my opinion every single one had a corrupt loot council.

It's just human nature.

I still raid in a guild with a loot council. It's the way 100% of even semi-serious raiding guilds handle loot. But it's also 100% corrupt. People might get their 'fair share' of loot, but whenever a decision is fifty fifty, or a drop is truly rare, the guys in the inner circle get the items, and it has nothing to do with helping the guild or maximising efficiency, and everything to do with selfishness.

Curious, would you consider that "inner circle" as the better players, or just those who are more friendly? Like, honestly, would you consider them better than yourself (assuming you're not in it), or at least better than the rest who aren't that "inner circle"? As a side-note: That's why my guild uses EPGP on top of LootCouncil. You get your fair share depending on how much you raid/loot/etc (see my previous reply in here for more info), and the only things we LootCouncil are the likes of Set Bonus', trinkets and BiS items. Though, BiS won't be likely with Titanforge being a thing this time around. It's more to keep things from going to waste whilst optimising the gear progression *slightly*.

If we weren't using EPGP on top, as a pure LootCouncil, I [or rather, the council, 3-5 people vote via the addon] would generally give it to the person most likely to make use of it, if not the bigger upgrade. I mean, if you get two warriors, exact same gear, and one of them can't make half the raids - it's logical to give it to the one that attends them all in terms of progression. Same with DPS. A 5% DPS buff to someone doing 100k is more than a 5% buff to someone doing 70k. It's a raid benefit, not a personal one and that part is hard for some people to understand, especially if they are the player not getting it in this situation.

[Deleted]

Why not make normal an heroic raid personal loot, and mythic raid council? Maybe in the next tier change that all old raids be personal loot only.

[Propainn]

Yet you have never shown any statistical info in any of your posts and only talk about your personal experiences with loot council and ninja looting overall and claim it rarely happens since it rarely has happened to you. Where is any proof in that but your own personal ones? Is it easy talking out of both sides of your mouth or does your jaw hurt a lot?

Do you really need him to link you the wowprogress of every single half-decent guild that's used loot council and found success? That info is public domain. Most guilds advertise their loot policies, so look at that, combined with progression, and turnover rate. Boom, that's evidence for their success.

Now proving that 9/10 loot councils are corrupt and fail? Yeah, you're gonna need to find EVERY guild that uses loot council (or at least a decently large sample size), and then you have to prove that those that are succeeding while using LC make up a mere 10% of the total guilds that use it.

I would be willing to bet that if you actually chose to undertake this endeavor, you would be surprised with the results.

[MoanaLisa]

Way late to the party on this one but the answer is simple:

It depends on how much you trust the people distributing the loot. If you don't trust them find another guild.

[Deleted]

personal loot is crap if you want to progress as fast as possible. ppl will get useless items they cant trade because of itemlevel restriction (pure bullshit) also some lucky players might get much more loot than others and then the drama starts.