The DH reign is now officially over

[Exhorder]

I hope the new spec isn't some auto attack Demon Blades bullshit. But I'm sure they'll revert some nerfs because this is a bit too much.

[Multistryke]

Was a pleasure serving with you boyz.

[Shirofune]

What exactly do you not like about the nerfs? I feel like these changes bring DH closer to what Blizzard intended them to be in the first place.

Do you feel that DH having a low end single target damage is not justified? Do you think that it'd be a good decision balance-wise to keep DH in the top 8 (simulated) pure single target DPS classes? (In reality they were in the top 5 because the rotation is really simple and the simulated dps doesn't differ much from actual dps unlike other classes)

LMFAO. Another clueless guy. Get your facts straight, Momentum DH is not easy to use properly.

I seriously doubt Blizzard would make a class suck donkey balls in ST, tho. Some classes excel at something, but they are not worthless in any aspect. They usually get buffed when that happens, as is the case with warlocks (that are simming top 1 atm) and frost DKs.

[goriander]

LMFAO. Another clueless guy. Get your facts straight, Momentum DH is not easy to use properly.

I seriously doubt Blizzard would make a class suck donkey balls in ST, tho. Some classes excel at something, but they are not worthless in any aspect. They usually get buffed when that happens, as is the case with warlocks (that are simming top 1 atm) and frost DKs.

I'm far from clueless. Your opinion is biased because you main a DH and for some reason you feel that you're entitled to being completely broken in both PvE and PvP. I played DH in the beta and I liked the class but it felt way too strong, nobody was able to compete with me in DPS in dungeons and I kept winning 1v5 fights in battlegrounds.

So instead of hopping on the FOTM train I kept playing my DK because it was obvious since the beginning that DH was completely overpowered and will be dealt with sooner or later. My DK still deals subpar single target and AoE damage and the mobility is garbage but I'm not complaining because I like the class. Every single one of my friends and guildies who play a DH have actually been complaining about how ridiculously overpowered the class is.

[Ilnezhara]

Okay but is making the class worse than pre-buff frost the way to go? I doubt it. More Shotgun surgery. Demon Hunter is dead.

[Deleted]

I feel like dh is getting wod ww monk treatment, we have 1 dps spec and this spec will be relegated to being cleave bot, the role which warrior or rogue will perform admirably despite decent single target dmg.

Honestly every aoe nerf dh got is justfied imo but single target i just dont see any logs suggesting havoc is any good at it.

[Eats Compost]

Well, DH AoE was way, way out of line. That was always going to be getting an extremely hard nerf. Most of the nerfs seem directed at that.

[Deleted]

DH AoE was way, way out of line.

Yes i agree completely

But then why bloodlet nerf, make it so it applies dot only to main target and not ricochets or dmg is divided by number of ricochets and single target would stay intact.

[Shirofune]

I'm far from clueless. Your opinion is biased because you main a DH and for some reason you feel that you're entitled to being completely broken in both PvE and PvP. I played DH in the beta and I liked the class but it felt way too strong, nobody was able to compete with me in DPS in dungeons and I kept winning 1v5 fights in battlegrounds.

So instead of hopping on the FOTM train I kept playing my DK because it was obvious since the beginning that DH was completely overpowered and will be dealt with sooner or later. My DK still deals subpar single target and AoE damage and the mobility is garbage but I'm not complaining because I like the class. Every single one of my friends and guildies who play a DH have actually been complaining about how ridiculously overpowered the class is.

Sorry for you, but I will keep playing DH because I like how the class plays, even if it does shit numbers. I already told my leaders I will not reroll and will gladly enjoy a bench if the time shows DHs are useless in Mythic raiding after the nerfs. I know MM Hunters are currently above the rest and probably a bit overpowered but I don't enjoy the shit playstyle they got in Legion.

BGs, 1 vs 5. When? Stun -> Dead. Lmao. If anything, people has been complaining since beta feedback forums (yeah I checked those) that DH lacked surv ever since they were created. Sure, their burst was high, but their surv was 0. I've never seen a 1 vs 5 DH in BG, and without proof, you're probably spitting it out of your ass. Actually I remember Beta community considering Havoc DH one of the weakest classes in PvP.

Do you know what's fun? DHs have been nerfed for like 5 times in a row before their launch back in Aug. They were pretty normal, and yes, I'm probably biased cause I play one, but the only boss I topped the last raid was Nythandra. The resto I was top 2-5, depending on the situation. The only thing I was OP at was pulls. And yes, I agree, our burst AoE was retarded. That's the only thing that needed a tone down.

[Deleted]

People complaining without having any grounds for their complaints.
And in general from our trade chat complaint spamming, it's the clueless DH's who has no idea what they're doing that are being the loudest about the nerfs.
It was expected from the getgo that we'd get nerfed, perhaps not AS harsh, but it is in no way detrimental to the class or the spec, as with everything, our talents will change with both time, gear and tiers.
The sims that some did showing us at the bottom are just rediculous, I resimmed myself with the new changes and with the SAME talents as the standard momentum, TG build and I lost some 14-16k dps.
Ok so say that transfers to a raidscenario, that will put me at 289k dps on nythendra heroic for instance, rather than above 300k with Lord RNG on my side.
How people couldn't see this happening is beyond me and frankly, I don't care about the nerfs as it's simply opened up A LOT more leighway in rooting out the bad DH's from the good ones.

But people will always be complaining about something.
I know my post will probably get slaugthered but I felt the need to state my opinion here as someone who weren't even the sligthest suprised and has a logical view on the nerfs rather than: OMG WE'RE NERFED, CLASS IS NOW BROKEN, BLIZZ PLZ FIX and all the other shitters who complained about being beaten in raids or dungeons when they we're playing a class which not only on paper should beat us, but with the proper skill actually does too.

[Shirofune]

People complaining without having any grounds for their complaints.
And in general from our trade chat complaint spamming, it's the clueless DH's who has no idea what they're doing that are being the loudest about the nerfs.
It was expected from the getgo that we'd get nerfed, perhaps not AS harsh, but it is in no way detrimental to the class or the spec, as with everything, our talents will change with both time, gear and tiers.
The sims that some did showing us at the bottom are just rediculous, I resimmed myself with the new changes and with the SAME talents as the standard momentum, TG build and I lost some 14-16k dps.
Ok so say that transfers to a raidscenario, that will put me at 289k dps on nythendra heroic for instance, rather than above 300k with Lord RNG on my side.
How people couldn't see this happening is beyond me and frankly, I don't care about the nerfs as it's simply opened up A LOT more leighway in rooting out the bad DH's from the good ones.

But people will always be complaining about something.
I know my post will probably get slaugthered but I felt the need to state my opinion here as someone who weren't even the sligthest suprised and has a logical view on the nerfs rather than: OMG WE'RE NERFED, CLASS IS NOW BROKEN, BLIZZ PLZ FIX and all the other shitters who complained about being beaten in raids or dungeons when they we're playing a class which not only on paper should beat us, but with the proper skill actually does too.

You messed up somewhere. Bloodlet is the #1 or the #2 source of damage for most of us Havoc Demon Hunters. A more than 50% nerf (TG damage is nerfed as well) plus the Fel Rush nerf (20% less damage, again #2, #3 source of damage) does not account for 14k DPS, at all.

[aerodragon83]

You messed up somewhere. Bloodlet is the #1 or the #2 source of damage for most of us Havoc Demon Hunters. A more than 50% nerf (TG damage is nerfed as well) plus the Fel Rush nerf (20% less damage, again #2, #3 source of damage) does not account for 14k DPS, at all.

Since when? If the fight lasts more than 60 seconds and Chaos Strike/Annihilation aren't your top damage abilities, you are doing something horribly wrong and need to rethink your playstyle.

[Shirofune]

Since when? If the fight lasts more than 60 seconds and Chaos Strike/Annihilation aren't your top damage abilities, you are doing something horribly wrong and need to rethink your playstyle.

These are my logs for Nythendra.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=7

It's #2, as you can see.

[aerodragon83]

These are my logs for Nythendra.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=7

It's #2, as you can see.

And it still will be after the nerfs, it's not like a good DH is suddenly going to find himself at the bottom.

[Deleted]

And it still will be after the nerfs, it's not like a good DH is suddenly going to find himself at the bottom.

Erm. I don't think you quite realise the scale of these nerfs. JUST the bloodlet nerf alone is almost a flat overall 10% ST damage decrease.

[Detritivores]

Oh no, I'll have to try to win at dps now instead of just winning with mediocre play because my class is broken! Oh nooo!

As a class that has to play flawlessly just to be in the top half of a competent raid's dps (ele), I have approximately zero sympathy for you all.

But Det, OMG SIMS!

... linking the simdps list of all classes should be a ban-able offense. I can't think of a more worthless thing to link. Might as well free-hand your perceived list of dps superiority in microsoft paint. No numbers needed. Probably more valid.

[Deleted]

But Det, OMG SIMS!

... linking the simdps list of all classes should be a ban-able offense. I can't think of a more worthless thing to link. Might as well free-hand your perceived list of dps superiority in microsoft paint. No numbers needed. Probably more valid.

Because anecdotal evidence, "feeling" and opinions are totally more valid than simulated numbers that line up correctly?
K bro, keep playing your 4 button shaman "flawlessly".

[Shirofune]

And it still will be after the nerfs, it's not like a good DH is suddenly going to find himself at the bottom.

In those logs, lets start by lowering the 6.86 M damage of TG by 30%. It leaves us with 4.8 M. After this, let's apply the Bloodlet nerf. 200 -> 100%

We have the following:

TG: 6.86 M -> 4.8 M
Bloodlet: 13.24 M -> 4.8 M

That's in total a reduction of 10.5 M damage.

I'm not even counting the Fel Rush and FotI reduction, but we can do it if you want.

It's way more than 14k DPS.

[Deleted]

lets just hope that DH now beome a mediocre dps without utility such as fury warrior is right now.

oh and pvp nerfs woop woop

[aerodragon83]

Erm. I don't think you quite realise the scale of these nerfs. JUST the bloodlet nerf alone is almost a flat overall 10% ST damage decrease.

Everyone talking about, They nerfed our ST, not our AOE. It's not like we have a completely different set of skills we use for AOE instead of ST, it's literally the same 4 buttons. You can't tweak one without it affecting both.