ETW effective nerf percentages

[Deleted]

I did some calculations, and unless I made a mistake, this are the effective nerfs to ETW, ranging from 18%, up to 26%.
I posted this also in the arms discussion but it seems to get burried real fast.
They could have nerfed it around 10%, but instead they decided to go with these huge numbers

ETW with 3/3

1 Rage spent = 1.09 effective rage = 0.7085 % (-> this is your new tactician % per 1 rage spent, instead of the 0.65%)
1 Rage spent = 1.30 effective rage = 0.845 %
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= 0.1365% (so a 1.365% nerf, which sound small, but it's a 18% effective nerf)

The thing is that ETW used to be your BiS relic trait.

ETW with 5/3

1 Rage spent = 1.15 effective rage = 0.7475 %
1 Rage spent = 1.50 effective rage = 0.975 %
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= 0.2275 % (so a 2.275% nerf, effective nerf of 23.3%)

ETW with 6/3

1 Rage spent = 1.18 effective rage = 0.767 %
1 Rage spent = 1.60 effective rage = 1.040 %
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= 0.2730 % (so a 2.73% nerf, effective nerf of 26.25%)

If you were, just like me, 5/3, you get a nerf of 23.3% which is huge.
Basically i'll have a 23.3% less chance that tactician procs, so less MS's and less CS's

[Deleted]

I don't think I'll be able to stomach a gameplay this clunky, the RNG was already infuriating at times and it's completely pants on head retarded. RIP my warrior

[Deleted]

I don't think I'll be able to stomach a gameplay this clunky, the RNG was already infuriating at times and it's completely pants on head retarded. RIP my warrior

Exactly. Considering Tactician for warrior, and in particular arms, is a core mechanic which has an extremely important synergy with how arms works and it's artifact traits like Shattered Defense (and Precise strikes + Focus in Battle), a big nerf like this is going to be insane. This nerf is going to make you pray for good RNG if you want to do good damage output in raids.

[Supercool]

EtW relics were too good, I suppose, and led to unintuitive gameplay where you'd want a lower ilvl relic just because it gave a point in EtW.

What they SHOULD have done is taken the bonus proc chance away from EtW and baked it into base Tactician to make Arms less irritating overall. Or better yet, tell Tactician to piss off and make it a flat Anger Management type effect where rage spent lowers the CD of Colossus Smash by a fixed amount.

[Bram24]

The EtW nerf would have made much more sense if it came with a Tactician buff or a CS GCD reduction. It's the min/maxers that are farming +1 relics to EtW that are causing this nerf.

I don't have the time nor energy to farm all these relics out and that should not be the intention of the build (having all relics benefiting one part of the AW tree).

This is a clunky build with just the 30% proc rate (Full 3 AR) and I could imagine it much more fun an powerful to play with the 60% proc rate with all three relic stones (forgive my terminology but you get what I am saying) having a +1 EtW benefit.
Blizzard unfortunately got the intention of the nerf correct, but ultimately are coming up short on the execution.

[Deleted]

The EtW nerf would have made much more sense if it came with a Tactician buff or a CS GCD reduction. It's the min/maxers that are farming +1 relics to EtW that are causing this nerf.

I don't have the time nor energy to farm all these relics out and that should not be the intention of the build (having all relics benefiting one part of the AW tree).

This is a clunky build with just the 30% proc rate (Full 3 AR) and I could imagine it much more fun an powerful to play with the 60% proc rate with all three relic stones (forgive my terminology but you get what I am saying) having a +1 EtW benefit.
Blizzard unfortunately got the intention of the nerf correct, but ultimately are coming up short on the execution.

You can't expect people (in specific raiders) to not get the most-optimized relics, that would make no sense.

But yes, they could have done numerous things to nerf the bonus's ETW from relics while keeping the effective nerf down to 5-10%, instead of 18-26%.
To me this nerf looks like a very short-sighted nerf. I wouldn't be suprised if a hotfix with a buff comes soon.

[Bram24]

I agree Bebo and we are on the same page. You cannot expect Min Maxers NOT to get the most optimized relics. So effectively Blizz made the mistake of making that talent in the AW too strong at the start. They then nerf that strong talent into the ground without compensating for it from a gameplay persepective (ie buffing Tactician or reducing CS GCD) leaving the build clunky.

I would think you would want to work it so that the CS buff is up about 1/3 to 1/2 of the time you are in combat. With a 60% proc rate for EtW you have almost 100% uptime on the CS buff as a result of frequent CS procs (enhanced by AW talent tree and high mastery) and you AW skill as a back up you are getting the inflated DPS.

[Supercool]

You can't expect people (in specific raiders) to not get the most-optimized relics, that would make no sense.

It's more stark with warriors than most specs. EtW relics were the cream of the crop and everything else was a participation ribbon.

And for some people they just refuse to drop.

[jettzypher]

I've done up some of the math and while we'll definitely see some more downtime, it may not be 'that' bad. Granted we will have to wait and see how it feels on Tuesday. That being said, it's an initial pass, so crying about the death of your warrior is a bit premature. If the devs see it under-performing too much and don't make adjustments, then I think there would be viable reason to complain about not being able to play the spec.

Furthermore, this is all clearly a knee-jerk reaction to the data from the first round of EN. We've already seen huge changes to be up the under-performers and more targeted changes to dial back the over-performers. Give it another week or two and see what their second pass entails before crying that the sky is falling.

[Rakash]

I think a relic nerf would have been fine but its a shame its nerfed all togheter.

[Bigbazz]

If they wanted to nerf ETW they should have buffed tactition base chance to proc to counter it, because the spec was so horrible to play without having 6/3 ETW.. They didn't need to target a dps nerf via ETW/Tactition, because by doing so they have just made the spec fucking infuriating to play.

[Bram24]

I've done up some of the math and while we'll definitely see some more downtime, it may not be 'that' bad. Granted we will have to wait and see how it feels on Tuesday. That being said, it's an initial pass, so crying about the death of your warrior is a bit premature. If the devs see it under-performing too much and don't make adjustments, then I think there would be viable reason to complain about not being able to play the spec.

Furthermore, this is all clearly a knee-jerk reaction to the data from the first round of EN. We've already seen huge changes to be up the under-performers and more targeted changes to dial back the over-performers. Give it another week or two and see what their second pass entails before crying that the sky is falling.

Forget the DPS for a minute, although its hard to. Less EtW procs means a much much more sluggish/clunky/sitting with your mouse clicking finger up your butt build even though our "numbers" may now be more "in-line". Build was clunky to begin with at 30%....now maxed its 18 if you have a +6 on the talent...blech...

[jettzypher]

Percentage changes only alter the probability of whether you get the reset or not; frequency is all chance. Even with 5 ranks in EtW, I have plenty moments where I go without Tactician procs. It's seriously not the end of the world.

I believe this change is more to keep people for stacking EtW relics in their weapon. The goal now should be less on bitching about the reduced proc chance and more on finding which other ability on the weapon should be given some relic love (or even determining whether it's still best to stack EtW).

[Deleted]

Percentage changes only alter the probability of whether you get the reset or not; frequency is all chance. Even with 5 ranks in EtW, I have plenty moments where I go without Tactician procs. It's seriously not the end of the world.

I believe this change is more to keep people for stacking EtW relics in their weapon. The goal now should be less on bitching about the reduced proc chance and more on finding which other ability on the weapon should be given some relic love (or even determining whether it's still best to stack EtW).

You can go ahead and search the entire Artifact weapon for possible traits that could receive some relic love + that would match the playstyle, but you probaly wouldn't fine one (except a Shattered Defense buff maybe, would make no sense though). Everything seems to be all build around CS into MS or CS into execute.
By nerfing tactician, you are nerfing the whole build.

[jettzypher]

And yet we have no idea how detrimental this change is going to be until it is live and we can play it with some regularity to see how much different it truly is. But, I guess that kind of logic doesn't work around here...

[Bram24]

We are using logic. EtW is being dramatically reduced. Its going to lead to clunky gameplay without other changes being made.

DPS will be reduced as well...there is no arguing there. How much so I agree we have to wait and see. Its the EtW nerf that has most of us more concerned vs anything else as it impact gameplay.

[Kilma]

And yet we have no idea how detrimental this change is going to be until it is live and we can play it with some regularity to see how much different it truly is. But, I guess that kind of logic doesn't work around here...

I'm playing with 40% Exploit the Weakness and I have RNG problems right now. I can't imagine what 12% will feel like.

[Deleted]

It seems harsh, indeed, but I don't think the negative impact on our overall DPS will be as dramatic as all that.
However, increasing the RNG, which is already a part of the spec that people are unhappy about, is a big mistake, I think.
It will make the spec less fun to play, simple as that.
If a spec's damage is too high, all you have to do is nerf the damage of its abilities, like they nerfed Focused Rage. Nerf MS and Execute too if you have too.
That's how you properly nerf an overtuned spec.
Instead they mess with an already unreliable mechanic and that looks like goddamn amateurs at work to me.

[Raventhrone]

I feel as if they don't invest enough time going through theese nerf's via a players perspective, instead they just put em out there and always with big numbers to watch the effect and then maybe change it. This was a flat out nerf to both the feeling of the gameplay and the spec/dmg itself. Honestly, I lost all my motivation.

It was already clunky enough and now what? We'd all end up like that matador in "Ferdinand" and ripping our hair from the bottom of ours skulls with this type of RNG.

RIP Arms and RIP Fury, both on the same spot now, bottom.

[Jalopy]

They should have just nerfed mastery but that would have been way too logically sound.