The DH reign is now officially over

[Deleted]

And it still will be after the nerfs, it's not like a good DH is suddenly going to find himself at the bottom.

half dmg for bloodlet 30% less dmg from throw glaive...

throw glaive will do 70% of its current dmg(30% less)
bloodlet will do 35% of its current dmg(65% less).

on 3 minute fight annihilation which you can use only for 30s will jump above it.

[Aggrophobic]

Just because Havoc was nerfed does not mean Demon Hunters are suddenly shit.

Actually, yes they are.
They are at the rock bottom and they don't really bring anything to the raid in terms of utility. There is zero reason to play one now.

[Deleted]

You can't tweak one without it affecting both.

Erm, they could have just made it so the damage decrase on glaive/bloodlet only applies to secondary targets? It's not like their code somehow stops them from doing that.

[Malygaa]

Oh no, I'll have to try to win at dps now instead of just winning with mediocre play because my class is broken! Oh nooo!

As a class that has to play flawlessly just to be in the top half of a competent raid's dps (ele), I have approximately zero sympathy for you all.

But Det, OMG SIMS!

... linking the simdps list of all classes should be a ban-able offense. I can't think of a more worthless thing to link. Might as well free-hand your perceived list of dps superiority in microsoft paint. No numbers needed. Probably more valid.

Please keep your stupidity on the warrior sub forums, not ours.

[Shirofune]

Erm, they could have just made it so the damage decrase on glaive/bloodlet only applies to secondary targets? It's not like their code somehow stops them from doing that.

Maybe even better. Is not like they had to touch Bloodlet and TG at all? You know, because it affects 0 to burst AoE.

All they had to nerf was Balanced Blades (ok with that) and FotI when X numbers of enemies is present. That's it.

[Detritivores]

Because anecdotal evidence, "feeling" and opinions are totally more valid than simulated numbers that line up correctly?
K bro, keep playing your 4 button shaman "flawlessly".

Please tell me more about the validity of these sim numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe you should do some of your own research before coming in sounding like a moron.

Feel free to enlighten me.

[Fudge]

In reality they were in the top 5 because the rotation is really simple and the simulated dps doesn't differ much from actual dps unlike other classes

Sort of. Demon Blades rotation was a bit simple, but this nerf did nothing (except to make it the mandatory choice) really didn't hit it as hard as it did momentum builds. .. if you think that was simple to play, you lack raid awareness.

Having movement built in to your dps made for a much more complicated playstyle. You couldn't just vr and rush in at all times, there's crap on ground, adds, debuffs, etc that made you have to really think about how to use your movement charges. Bloodlet helped to ease the huge burden of trying to maintain your momentum (even if you had to use your movements for non-dps, you were still able to toss them at range with the buff up to counteract the x seconds of lost buff time on mob).

Had they kept the way that Bloodlet worked, but lowered the dmg on secondary targets, it would have made a lot more sense. .. but instead, they chose to gut the build.

So, to bring it back to your statement. If you thought dh were simple before. .. wait till you see what's about to happen. .. single target will now just be demon blades and chaos strike. Likely, well also see fel blade, fel eruption, and fel barrage in some builds (since mastery value will shoot up and eruption and barrage both benefit from this)

[Zarutaja]

Gonna be harder and harder to justify these melee spots in raids the way things are going. Tough stuff when there isn't a single ranged in this game that doesn't play like it's still 2004. I'd handily quit and never look back before playing something as shit as the current Lock or Mage structure.

In what world do you live in that damage done across the entire encounter isn't important?

Umm.. Looking at boss encounters and they're doing excellent... not to mention this actually does not include trash.

[Deleted]

Not sure if you're trolling.
After this nerf, our single target damage will be one of the lowest of all damage dealers.

Oh fuck off, that is posted in EVERY single class forum that didnt get a buff a certain patch, and posted twice for those who got a nerf.

And so what if you are one of the lowest, guess what.... not every spec can be on top? Being the lowest with the highest 10-15% away, isnt bad, not with numbers in the 300k being breached on sustain already -_-

[Detritivores]

Please keep your stupidity on the warrior sub forums, not ours.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize discussing class balance based on shitty inaccurate pathwerk sims comparing classes whos action lists are not equally accurate was a respectable intellectual pursuit. I'll definitely retreat to the warrior forums where we don't account for any of that and just hang out and do stupid things. Oh wait...

- - - Updated - - -

How about checking warcrafts logs, not sims, actual numbers, and then justify nerfs to X classes and buffs/no nerfs to others.

Tell me more about these "warcraft logs." They sound like not at all the same thing as the "sims" that I criticized. It's almost like they're totally different things! Please, link me a "warcraft log" that shows how "dead" demon hunters are now. I'll wait til Wednesday, don't worry.

[Deleted]

Oh fuck off, that is posted in EVERY single class forum that didnt get a buff a certain patch, and posted twice for those who got a nerf.

And so what if you are one of the lowest, guess what.... not every spec can be on top? Being the lowest with the highest 10-15% away, isnt bad, not with numbers in the 300k being breached on sustain already -_-

We are talking about Feral/Demonology being 90-100k DPS better ST.

[Deleted]

Tell me more about these "warcraft logs." They sound like not at all the same thing as the "sims" that I criticized. It's almost like they're totally different things! Please, link me a "warcraft log" that shows how "dead" demon hunters are now. I'll wait til Wednesday, don't worry.

Idk if you think you're being clever or something but warcraft logs are actual recordings of actual fights performed by actual players, not automated calculations that try to approximate performance.

Sims are what you -can- theoretically do, logs are what people are actually doing.

[Puzzony]

Actually, yes they are.
They are at the rock bottom and they don't really bring anything to the raid in terms of utility. There is zero reason to play one now.

When you are playing the class for big dick FOTM numbers, not for the gameplay itself, sad story bro

[Shirofune]

When you are playing the class for big dick FOTM numbers, not for the gameplay itself, sad story bro

Do you know that things like numbers are actually important for Mythic raiding?

You should be playing a class for the gameplay, and if you like it, of course. But its Blizzards problem to make the class usable and desirable for raiding.

[Deleted]

Idk if you think you're being clever or something but warcraft logs are actual recordings of actual fights performed by actual players, not automated calculations that try to approximate performance.

Sims are what you -can- theoretically do, logs are what people are actually doing.

And the logs show what? DHs are at the top (togetehr with others btw) on Il'gynoth and Etherel Reneferal due to being able to pad stats on inconsequential adds (Ichors and Spiders). For the rest, they are between top third and middle of the pack.

Does that sound like "need a 20% ST nerf" to you? Really?

[Toffie]

Oh fuck off, that is posted in EVERY single class forum that didnt get a buff a certain patch, and posted twice for those who got a nerf.

And so what if you are one of the lowest, guess what.... not every spec can be on top? Being the lowest with the highest 10-15% away, isnt bad, not with numbers in the 300k being breached on sustain already -_-

What exactly is the point of your post?

[Schizoide]

I basically agree with the targeting of these nerfs (but not necessarily the numbers, which I haven't evaluated yet); Bloodlet and Fel Mastery were very powerful talents. It's unfortunate that they didn't buff or change the talents competing with them, though.

Chaos Cleave, Blind Fury, and First Blood all deserve a great deal of love, and buffing those downright awful talents would have taken a lot of the sting from the nerfs away.

[Zarutaja]

Do you know that things like numbers are actually important for Mythic raiding?

You should be playing a class for the gameplay, and if you like it, of course. But its Blizzards problem to make the class usable and desirable for raiding.

Unusable is now any DPS that wont be top three in your raid group?

[Shirofune]

Unusable is now any DPS that wont be top three in your raid group?

Unusable is a class that brings no utility and excels in neither ST or Cleave, in a raid setting.

AoE doesn't matter at all inside a raid.

Sure, you can still play your DH, but in any Mythic raid that is min-maxing and the class is under-performing, you will be asked to either reroll or let someone else take your place.

[Detritivores]

Idk if you think you're being clever or something but warcraft logs are actual recordings of actual fights performed by actual players, not automated calculations that try to approximate performance.

Sims are what you -can- theoretically do, logs are what people are actually doing.

As I said, clearly different things. I was being sarcastic because I criticized sims and got sassed about logs, as if they were they same. Obviously they aren't.