Blizzard nerfing aoe without considering ST?

[Deleted]

We all know, that aoe needed to be nerfed, that is fine.
Our single target was fine - not too much, not too little. But with recent changes, this is gonna change.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...sdps&boss=1841

Looking at statistics, we will - after changes, be the lowest single target dps by far, no doubt. Generally, Throw glaive (as example) gets a 50% nerf total ( With Bloodlet in mind ).

My question is, do you think blizzard just did this nerf, without even considering our Single target, and then buffes it later on?
Like.. They just forgot about it? Or do you actually think they wanted to nerf our Single target dps aswell?

[reokotsae]

curious to see the logs come tuesday. Especially for mythic, several classes now have theoretically better cleave as I can't really see our damage on dragons or renferal being any good with the primary reason for it being gutted. Also on renferal and dragons will we even still be using bloodlet? Is firstblood or felblade superior now if the bloodlet dot uptime isn't great?

As for Ursoc we were always just middling.

The question I would like to know is what is the balancing niche of the demon hunter class, if blizzards ideal balance point is that we will only be relevant in large aoe scenarios and compensate for it with the worst single target then I want off the bus. There are several specs who get middle pack aoe without paying for it with all of their st.

[Deleted]

As topic states, i actually think it's just a nerf to aoe without considering the single target consequences.

[goriander]

So you think havoc would be fine doing the most AOE and top 5 in pure single target as it was pre-nerf with their mobility? Sorry to break it for you but you can't be the master of all trades.
Havoc is still above both DK dps specs in single target and we have far inferior mobility and AOE but do you see a bunch of DK players crying on the forums about it?

[Bad Management]

Blizzard not having a clue what they're doing.

More shattering news at 5

[Deleted]

Havoc is still above both DK dps specs in single target and we have far inferior mobility and AOE but do you see a bunch of DK players crying on the forums about it?

Get a clue, after the hotfix we'll be lucky if we're ahead of Frost DKs, right now DH's and Unholy are both sitting in the middle of the pack on ST while Arms(who also get their ST nerfed) and Ferals(who did not get nerfed for some reason) are way ahead of everyone.
Stats from Ursoc

[goriander]

Get a clue, after the hotfix we'll be lucky if we're ahead of Frost DKs, right now DH's and Unholy are both sitting in the middle of the pack on ST while Arms(who also get their ST nerfed) and Ferals(who did not get nerfed for some reason) are way ahead of everyone.
Stats from Ursoc

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html
These are the latest sims with the new numbers. Havoc will probably go even higher up with some fixes to their rotation priority and new BiS lists.

And it's completely retarded that havoc is in the top 10 in a pure single target fight with minimal movement such as heroic Ursoc. Havoc should be the LOWEST out of all the dps specs in single target because they're top tier in everything else.

Ferals don't need a nerf because Ursoc is an encounter where they should be shining. They have good single target damage, good mobility but their tradeoff is bad aoe damage. So this is what havoc should look like: top tier mobility, good aoe but bad single target damage.

[Deleted]

I would just like to point out that despite how ridiculously hard it is to get AP and legendaries for offspec(if you had them) at least other classes can fall back on other specs.

If however dh, monk, paladin, priest arent decent in both aoe and st they just cant do anything but reroll class or skip boss/raid.

Balance this shit with talents so they have to dedicate to aoe or st without crushing both at once.

[goriander]

I would just like to point out that despite how ridiculously hard it is to get AP and legendaries for offspec(if you had them) at least other classes can fall back on other specs.

If however dh, monk, paladin, priest arent decent in both aoe and st they just cant do anything but reroll class or skip boss/raid.

Balance this shit with talents so they have to dedicate to aoe or st without crushing both at once.

That's true if you're in the world first race but even then you'll have multiple characters geared and ready for different encounters if your main isn't optimal for it. If you're in a casual guild that plans to progress through mythic EN in a two or three months you won't be missing out on anything by playing only one class even if your spec isn't optimal for every fight.

DH is in a great spot right now and will probably see further nerfs to their single target damage so havoc has clear strengths and weaknesses. Seems like most people that play DH are new to the game and can't seem to grasp the basics of class balance.

[Deleted]

Ferals don't need a nerf because Ursoc is an encounter where they should be shining. They have good single target damage, good mobility but their tradeoff is bad aoe damage. So this is what havoc should look like: top tier mobility, good aoe but bad single target damage.

It that was the case, what the thok are Outlaw rogues doing 3rd on that sim you linked? Clearly Blizzard does not share your idea of "class balance".

[Deleted]

So you think havoc would be fine doing the most AOE and top 5 in pure single target as it was pre-nerf with their mobility? Sorry to break it for you but you can't be the master of all trades.
Havoc is still above both DK dps specs in single target and we have far inferior mobility and AOE but do you see a bunch of DK players crying on the forums about it?

Try Demon hunters before you post ... Seriusly people like you.
1: Our mobility is needed, to play our class. We got a momentum talent that is best-atm, that requires us to charge around during encounters, this can be extremely frustating on some bosses, as it can be kinda impossible at times. Mobility is highly required to be able to do this.
On a side note - We don't have any specific mobility on encounter tbh, all we have we use for damage purposes, so if we need it for anything else, it's on cd. Facts.

Druids, Monks etc, got just as much or close to, and can use it better.

And to the first part of your comment. I agree.
But putting us on bottom on BOTH aoe and single target, makes no sense.
Again on a side note, we are glass cannons, specially in pvp, we need high damage to survive. Without that, we're just a squizy nobody.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html
These are the latest sims with the new numbers. Havoc will probably go even higher up with some fixes to their rotation priority and new BiS lists.

And it's completely retarded that havoc is in the top 10 in a pure single target fight with minimal movement such as heroic Ursoc. Havoc should be the LOWEST out of all the dps specs in single target because they're top tier in everything else.

Ferals don't need a nerf because Ursoc is an encounter where they should be shining. They have good single target damage, good mobility but their tradeoff is bad aoe damage. So this is what havoc should look like: top tier mobility, good aoe but bad single target damage.

Part of what you say is true - but - "They're on top of everything else"
Ok.
We're not on top of mobility, neither survivability and our Aoe is taking a huge nerf aswell... What's left?

I would just like to point out that despite how ridiculously hard it is to get AP and legendaries for offspec(if you had them) at least other classes can fall back on other specs.

If however dh, monk, paladin, priest arent decent in both aoe and st they just cant do anything but reroll class or skip boss/raid.

Balance this shit with talents so they have to dedicate to aoe or st without crushing both at once.

So much agreeing on this.

[Mirishka]

Blizzard not having a clue what they're doing.

More shattering news at 5

Yeah they've only owned the MMO genre for 12 years and released what is arguably the best expansion yet for WoW. Clearly, they are clueless.

[goriander]

It that was the case, what the thok are Outlaw rogues doing 3rd on that sim you linked? Clearly Blizzard does not share your idea of "class balance".

Try to hold your tears in for now because this is only the first of many nerfs demon hunters will get.

[Deleted]

That's true if you're in the world first race but even then you'll have multiple characters geared and ready for different encounters if your main isn't optimal for it. If you're in a casual guild that plans to progress through mythic EN in a two or three months you won't be missing out on anything by playing only one class even if your spec isn't optimal for every fight.

DH is in a great spot right now and will probably see further nerfs to their single target damage so havoc has clear strengths and weaknesses. Seems like most people that play DH are new to the game and can't seem to grasp the basics of class balance.

Maybe some ppl remember wod and ww monks, which were shitshow for anything that wasnt cleave to the point when on brf i was outright denied spot on pug runs because rogue does everything i do but better.

i guess i should just go back to warrior, who is consistently decent throughout every patch i can remember and still does decent on cleave and aoe fights...

Thats my take on clear niche and clear weaknesses... outside of world firsts...

Also 5mil AP to get basic traits, 65mil ap to max out artifact, then reps gear and so on. This is most alt unfriendly expansion since tbc. Oh right legendaries, blizz mentioned something about later raids being designed around ppl having them...

[Deleted]

Try to hold your tears in for now because this is only the first of many nerfs demon hunters will get.

In others words, you can't explain how Outlaw rogues fit into your idea of class balance, and if Blizzard doesn't share that idea, your justification for the DH single target nerfs fall apart.

[Deleted]

They could buff Chaos Strike to help out with ST damage. Even with the changes (after modifying some of the talents) we still do good AE.

They should do something about this whole tier of talents.

You have generator, on top of 2 generators from 99 and 100 tiers.
You have ability buffing single target dmg on aoe skill which will become increasingly weaker compared to chaos strike when crit gear starts rolling. 15 vs 20 fury and 40% more physical dmg, compared to chaos on chaos strike.
and finally bloodlet which overshadows both of those...

Generator/mobility, mediocre buff to st on aoe and cleave talent which works on st.
What could go wrong??

[goriander]

In others words, you can't explain how Outlaw rogues fit into your idea of class balance, and if Blizzard doesn't share that idea, your justification for the DH single target nerfs fall apart.

The difference is havocs pulling 2m aoe dps while outlaws struggle to do anything above 600k.

[Deleted]

Generator/mobility, mediocre buff to st on aoe and cleave talent which works on st.
What could go wrong??

That's really the fundamental problem here, if that talent row had been designed and tuned in such a way that different talents had been clearly superior in different situations, eg Felblade for ST, First Blood for aoe and Bloodletting for cleave we would not be having this discussion right now, but instead with got Bloodletting which was the best in every situation.
And because it was extra good on trash we're getting a nerf to our single target on bosses.

[Sithalos]

I think they should nerf Demon Hunters a bit more. The salty forum threads are a joy to read through.

[Deleted]

The difference is havocs pulling 2m aoe dps while outlaws struggle to do anything above 600k.

Which is still a lot more than most the specs Outlaw is ahead of on ST does, try again.