I give up. The artifact grind is too much. All I want to do is PvP.

[Jazzhands]

You don't get to be top dog without putting in the time. Plus, this game isn't burger king, you don't get it your way. If all you want to do is pvp and ignore the other 90% of the game, perhaps a game built around PvP is more your style.

That being said, I hate PvP, how much AP does it give? If I run a heroic dungeon and get lucky with drops I get maybe 700-1k AP (not including the bonus AP from the daily random)at AK4 in 20-30ish mins depending on the dungeon. Random BGs last about the same time I think, so I would hope its close to that. Also 1k AP is nothing once you hit 20ish and need 30k+ per level.

[Baine]

2016 people still thinks that WoW is a PvP game or they will balance arround PvP ever. Get into PvE or just abandon WoW, the PvP sucks and was always this bad.

As a side activity, pvp is fun. When I am done with world quests and dungeons, I run one or two random battlegrounds. It is satisfying.

[FelPlague]

Not sure what else I can add. The artifact grind is insane and I only like to do PvP. I like a lot of what the expansion offers, but it really sucks that they made very little of it optional to complete before you can be maxed out for arenas.

Artifact power being introduced at the same time as PvP templates makes no sense to me. Are they trying to punish non-raiders?

And yea, I'm giving up on this expansion just like I did with WoD as a result. I don't have the patience for this.




TLDR: I'm pissed it's no longer possible to go ham on gear, finish it, and then play rated PvP casually with the same stats as everyone else.

just do pvp, earn AP to level it, and get artifact research, and over a few weeks you will super easily be able to get AP
thing is the amount of farming required later on is like "12 hours of non stop ap farming to get 2% increased damage on this one spell" where in 2 weeks you could get that in 20 minutes using artifact research

someone who today (i know) spent 5 hours, and spent 15 hours farming AP, would not be far from eachother, cause the price quickly becomes insane

[lanesia24]

Not sure what else I can add. The artifact grind is insane and I only like to do PvP. I like a lot of what the expansion offers, but it really sucks that they made very little of it optional to complete before you can be maxed out for arenas.

Artifact power being introduced at the same time as PvP templates makes no sense to me. Are they trying to punish non-raiders?

And yea, I'm giving up on this expansion just like I did with WoD as a result. I don't have the patience for this.




TLDR: I'm pissed it's no longer possible to go ham on gear, finish it, and then play rated PvP casually with the same stats as everyone else.

Don't understand the complaint really. You are making it sound like everyone else has fully maxed out artifacts and you do not which I can assure you is not the case. Some people might be a few points ahead of you but a few points isn't really a big change in damage. The only important ones are the gold ones the rest are usually small increases. I mean just play the game and enjoy it and keep your artifact knowledge up an eventually you'll get there. Trying to claim that you can't compete because people have a few more points in their artifact than you is just hyperbole for the sake of being dramatic.

[ComputerNerd]

Except one player having a golden trait unlocked compared to one who doesn't is a pretty huge difference for a lot of classes. Not to mention pvp talents. The barrier for entry into even casual pvp is so insane its ridiculous let alone for competitive pvp where anyone trying to push rating will and should exclude people without at least 20 points into their given artifact and honor level 46.

The barrier is player-created.
It isn't stopping you, and there will be plenty of other players in the same situation.

[Deleted]

Why would you even want to PVP in WoW. It not deigned as a PVP game, and there isnt really much to even do if you only PVP. Hell there havent even been any new battlegrounds in years, and only a couple arenas which are all really the same game with different scenery. If you want PVP go play Battlefield or Heroes of the Storm. Those of us who play the other 95% of the game dont want to finish everything in a week so you can go PVP with the other 50 people who do PVP in WoW

Because no other game has wow's combat system ?
"Why do you play that game that you enjoy playing instead of playing another game that you don't enjoy as much ?"
Duh

Also, the only people that want new battlegrounds and new arenas are basically the people that don't PvP, most PvP players would rather reduce the ammount of battlegrounds and arenas there are in the game

[FelPlague]

Yeah one of the things i have thought since the beginning of the expansion is how garbage the AP gain for pvpers is, they really need to fix that.

well 1, once you prestige you will get tons of ap, since you will unlock AP instead of more skills. also there is artifact knowledge for a reason

[lanesia24]

Corrected for poor argumentation. A game is something you play to have fun in, not to put "time and effort" into before you get to have fun.

Lol. Posts like these crack me up so much. Playing a game is time and effort you dimwit. That's what a game is. Turning on your Nintendo back in the day and loading the cartridge up didn't just beat the game for you you actually you know had to invest time and effort to complete the game. The same thing applies to any game.

[FelPlague]

Because no other game has wow's combat system ?
"Why do you play that game that you enjoy playing instead of playing another game that you don't enjoy as much ?"
Duh

Also, the only people that want new battlegrounds and new arenas are basically the people that don't PvP

star wars, guild wars, final fantasy, all have wows combat system (copied from wow mostly :P) and guild wars is MUCH more focused on pvp then wow, since its like... the only endgame content... there is raids but they are exclusive to having the first expansion (yes even if you bought the base game there is not a single raid in it) and there is only like 3 bosses in the raid? also their raiding is more of a "solo but tons of people" such as you dont care what anyone else is doing, its more of a solo raid, but tons of people are there aswell

[Flaks]

The barrier is player-created.
It isn't stopping you, and there will be plenty of other players in the same situation.

"Being at a massive disadvantage due to being behind on progression, in an aspect of play that requires all else to be equal outside of your skill and class, due to extraneous factors is entirely the playerbase's fault". Am I reading that right?

[Nize]

Because of scaling, anybody who goes truly out of their way to farm Artifact Power will typically only have a minor boost over you. For them to retain any sort of boost over you, they have to go out of their way EVERY week, as Artifact Knowledge stacks and makes for a decent catch-up to those who just nail ones on their way.

Another important thing to note is that proper Artifact paths nail all the highest value traits early meaning that each trait, as you go further down the tree, are less valuable, thus meaning you're already strong with the first 20-25 traits. If you didn't follow the proper path, then you probably aren't someone who should worry too much about competition as you didn't do your homework.

Having said that, maybe PvP not giving proper amounts of Artifact Power could be more of a viable complaint. Something definitely that could be suggested to Blizzard. If you have any ideas, let them know.

[Deathquoi]

That might have something to do with people bein different from each other.

Yes and therefore someone will always be crying. You can't please everyone, so the solution is to make what you think is the best possible game and then live with a vocal minority bitching about it.

[Deathquoi]

The solution is both. You can't make a good game and not listen to feedback, because that creates a horrible game. No group of people has every good idea thought out already.

You can't listen to all the feedback because most of it is contradictory. Some feedback is well thought out, clearly supported, and reasonable. Blizzard listens to that. Feedback like the OPs is shit and gets ignored.

[FelPlague]

Artifact knowledge is time-gated

yeah? and its gated for PVE'ers aswell, as time passes and it becomes harder to level your artifact you can either spend 20 hours farming to get one level, or wait 5 days and do that same farm in 10 hours

its allways been that if you wanna be better then everyone even by 1% you have to farm more then them, by doing more pvp, or spend more gold, if somone is even more then 1 level hgiher then you in AP, its only like 5% on one spell, and either they have spent WAY too much time, or you have spent NO time on gaining ap

thing is with the artifact is since it quickly goes up in cost each level it means that falling behind other people by a large amount is hard
lets use blood dk for example
your 16, to get the next level is 14k, you just unlocked your second dragon
somebody trying to get their third dragon (dragons are the only traits that give massive bonuses really..
needs 64k... yeah.... ALOT more then your 14k

if somone spends hours and hours more then you farming ap
omfg they will have more Ap then you, that is so unfair they have 8% more damage on marrowrend more then you! so unfair!

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Right, but "time and effort" in wow is like if in mario instead of running and jumping you had to gather flowers for 6 hours first before you could do so.

so you mean like castlevania? and legend of zelda? its allmost like wow is a RPG and mario is a platformer?

[schwarzkopf]

I find it odd how some people (not specifically OP), find things like the artefact 'grind', but spending 20 weeks+ hitting your head against mythic boss as 'not grind' ?

[Deleted]

star wars, guild wars, final fantasy, all have wows combat system (copied from wow mostly :P) and guild wars is MUCH more focused on pvp then wow, since its like... the only endgame content... there is raids but they are exclusive to having the first expansion (yes even if you bought the base game there is not a single raid in it) and there is only like 3 bosses in the raid? also their raiding is more of a "solo but tons of people" such as you dont care what anyone else is doing, its more of a solo raid, but tons of people are there aswell

Didn't play GW2 but GW had no Arena, as far as I know, GW2's PvP is centered around large scale encounters such as RvR, which is widely despised among PvPers.

Even though WoW is primarily a PvE game, it's still the way to go if you want to PvP with an MMO combat system, 2v2 and 3v3 bracket allow you not to have to socialize too much with random people and is much much more enjoyable to PvP players than large scale encounters because the way you're playing your class really matters.

[ComputerNerd]

"Being at a massive disadvantage due to being behind on progression, in an aspect of play that requires all else to be equal outside of your skill and class, due to extraneous factors is entirely the playerbase's fault". Am I reading that right?

You are reading what you want to see.
Overstating the "massive" advantage.
Players vary going in for more reasons than just the artifact trait progression.
Gear increasing the result of the template, different talent choices in both traditional and honor talents.

But you choose to single out that as the big problem when everything else is "equal".
It isn't even close.

Picking out something specific amongst a bigger pool, but ignoring the rest.
Yes, that is a player-created issue.

[Kul Tiras]

Lol. Posts like these crack me up so much. Playing a game is time and effort you dimwit. That's what a game is. Turning on your Nintendo back in the day and loading the cartridge up didn't just beat the game for you you actually you know had to invest time and effort to complete the game. The same thing applies to any game.

uuuuh no genius

a hobby takes effort, i.e. building motor boats and planes, decorating, repairing furniture, collecting stamps. The end result is the satisfaction you get out of real effort.

Killing enemies by spamming 1-1-2 for 6 months before you get to a power level where you can finally be on an event playing field with other players in your favorite pass-time in a videogame LABELLED AS a video GAME is false advertising.

And for the record, WoW doesn't take any sort of effort whatsoever unless you consider spamming 1-1-2 as a fucking effort, it just takes time. Tons and tons of time wasted on a repetitive activity easy enough for brain dead people to complete, which rewards skill in no way whatsoever. Type /played. 95% of that time listed was spend grinding bullshit so you could have fun in the remaining 5% of the fun activities.

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Didn't play GW2 but GW had no Arena, as far as I know, GW2's PvP is centered around large scale encounters such as RvR, which is widely despised among PvPers.

Even though WoW is primarily a PvE game, it's still the way to go if you want to PvP with an MMO combat system, 2v2 and 3v3 bracket allow you not to have to socialize too much with random people and is much much more enjoyable to PvP players than large scale encounters because the way you're playing your class really matters.

This sentence smells like shit, i think i know where you got it from.

[Deleted]

I have no pity or love for lazy casuals, sorry.

Cya.

Casual because you don't live in your mothers basement and can't play 24/7? Ok

Cya.

[Justpassing]

Well people wanted Vanilla / TBC so here's your endless grind. Enjoy.