From a Vanilla Player: The reason why I think WoW lost its glory.

[Deathquoi]

From another Vanilla player, I disagree with literally everything you said. The game lost its "glory" for you because it's not new like it once was.

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Also i miss basic things...like:

So i am a hunter, and i have a gun...i need bullets to shoot roght? Well...not anymore...so what i am shooting?

And i am a Warlock wright, so in order to create stuff, i need souls from things i kill...not anymore. How i create something without the souls? Dunno.

Yes, i know they are trivial things, but damned, feels...the wright way, like...i need bullets to shoot my gun.

About the crossrealms, yes, killed the game A LOT. They can fix that, they only need to close like 75% of dead realms they have, merge the players in restant 25% and the community is coming back. That's my idea and opinion.

Yeah, having to keep one of your precious bags filled with ammo just to play the game was super fun right?

[Deleted]

From another Vanilla player, I disagree with literally everything you said. The game lost its "glory" for you because it's not new like it once was.

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Yeah, having to keep one of your precious bags filled with ammo just to play the game was super fun right?

Was right cause you need ammo to shoot A GUN. Is logical!

[Deathquoi]

It makes me wonder if he actually was a vanilla player. Most rotations were fixed with no pop up bullshit, resources were not an issue fot many classes (hunters still used mana ffs) and rotatiobs rotations were incredible simple even relative to today...

My mage literally just spammed frostbolt. That's it. Not "spam frostbolt till something procs", not "mostly spam frostbolt with some other things thrown in", just "stand 35 yards away and 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 *boss dead*"

Also, you might ask, why did you not play fire or arcane? and the answer is that like half of the raids were mostly full of fire-immune mobs and arcane was literally a garbage fire.

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Was right cause you need ammo to shoot A GUN. Is logical!

There are a lot of things that are LOGICAL that are not FUN. It would be logical that my character might need to use a bathroom once in a while. It would be logical that my character would need to take special measures to keep his armor in decent shape in the nasty environments of Azeroth. None of that would be fun, though.

[Deleted]

Fire was only out from Onyxia, MC and BL. The other 4 raids was viable. Also, full arcane was not viable at all but Ice/Arcane or Fire/Arcane or Fire/Ice was a thing, they are talents in arcane in the old talent system that they are really good to add to you spec.

Also, yes, most of the time you do frostbolt. True. Also cause the mage in Vanilla doesn't hace too much on ice. Fire have 2 or 3 more things to do.

There are a lot of things that are LOGICAL that are not FUN. It would be logical that my character might need to use a bathroom once in a while. It would be logical that my character would need to take special measures to keep his armor in decent shape in the nasty environments of Azeroth. None of that would be fun, though.

Whyis not fun having ammo to shoot? Is more fun not having ammo? It changes the game to not fun to fun?

That's great.

[ComputerNerd]

I've always put it down to cross realms.

WoW was awesome when your server was a community and you only interacted with each other. As more and more cross realm elements were added we lost the community and community is what makes MMOs good.

You are right that it is a community that makes an MMO, but it is not blizzard that made or broke it.
Social interactions are interactions that players make to contribute positive towards the experiences of others.
The early game if anything had players far more spread out in the world, so interactions from proximity were infrequent.
Yet the players actually wanted to put in the effort.

Now it is all about the latest measure, the latest barrier they can raise to segregate and split people into the have's and have-not's.
There was a recent thread where someone wanted to measure the artifact trait progress of others, so they could judge that as a barrier for content.
An entirely player-created barrier, not in any way one blizzard dictated.
In fact blizzard did the opposite, stating there would be no such requirement for content.
Only item level.

Cross-realm if anything puts players together more, yet the community has suffered because of the choices players make.
They are more determined than ever to close themselves off.

Stop blaming blizzard, and stop being part of the problem.

The community was in decline before then.
I saw it first-hand with a pre-cursor to gearscore.

We are told constantly that the "solution" to inflated requirements is to make our own groups.
If we are having to take actions ourselves to try and negate the issues instead of those responsible actually doing something, then that speaks volumes.
It is plenty loud enough for anyone not sticking their head in the ground.

[Deathquoi]

I do agree with this, I think the spells is a minority thing but I can see where you're coming from.

For me personally, the game is less fun because of how easy leveling is (both speed of getting to max level, and the non-existing difficulty of killing mobs) - lets not forget, back in wrath/early cata, the MAJORITY of subs were made of people leveling to max level, they found it fun because there was a lot of depth to the game. Now? I'd argue the majority is at end game, and which is why the subs are lowering than they used to be.

Onto what I mean with depth, you had all these different stats, dodge, parry, etc would actually appear on gear. I think that was a HUGE feature, and I really DON'T like how, for example, a demon hunter vengeance tank can get crit, and that SOMEHOW gives you parry rating. It's not fun, and it's not interesting. Give us all these stats back, give us 2-3 slot pieces of gear, let us enchant 90% of our items. This puts more focus on your character and allows you more options with customizing what gems and enchants you want to go.

To follow that up, Cataclysm did one really good thing. You could reduce a stat on an item and used that reduced amount to put into a different stat. This allowed even FURTHER customization and I can remember reforging my gear to hit different caps for tanking, and man that was the god damn shit. Now, we don't even have that.

I think blizzard has reduced all this above WAAAY too much, and I don't see why. They may as well prune the UI entirely while they are going.

None of this shit was fun for most people. Needing to be at some arbitrary cap just to do your job wasn't fun. Juggling 3 sets of gear as a hybrid wasn't fun. Getting a new piece of gear and having to wait till you could go gem, enchant, and completely rework all your reforges just to equip it wasn't fun. People look back and say OH MY GOD SUCH CUSTOMIZATION WOW but it really wasn't very fun at all. There wasn't much choice, there was one correct choice and you ran it through your calculations and you got the correct choice and you just did that. Boring.

[Zenny]

OP is complaining about the lack of customization in the game, tryhard raiders counter with that the rotation was easier and again completely misses the point.

Sigh.

But he didn't actually mention any sort of customization of classes that Vanilla had that Legion does not? If we take aesthetics into account, Legion actually has way more.

[Deathquoi]

Fire was only out from Onyxia, MC and BL. The other 4 raids was viable. Also, full arcane was not viable at all but Ice/Arcane or Fire/Arcane or Fire/Ice was a thing, they are talents in arcane in the old talent system that they are really good to add to you spec.

Also, yes, most of the time you do frostbolt. True. Also cause the mage in Vanilla doesn't hace too much on ice. Fire have 2 or 3 more things to do.



Whyis not fun having ammo to shoot? Is more fun not having ammo? It changes the game to not fun to fun?

That's great.

Onyxia, MC, and BL was pretty much all most people got to do. Frost was by far the most common spec for raiding mages unless you were in Naxx or AQ40 on a regular basis, and most players were not.

Having ammo to shoot is tedious. Having to make sure you are always stocked up and losing 20% or more of your inventory space to ammo is tedious. There is literally nothing fun or engaging about it.

[Traveler Voltin]

Was right cause you need ammo to shoot A GUN. Is logical!

did you enjoy having less bag room than everyone else?
did you enjoy running out of ammo at the wrong moment?

[TickTickTick]

Are you aware that the people who played Vanilla have families/adult duties now and simply have no time to play anymore? Gaming standards have changed, and if the game didnt change too, the population would be abysmall.

Put off your rose-tinted glasses, the game is good as it is, and the fact that it still retains a couple of millions players only proves the changes WERE needed, else the game would be long dead now.

[Deleted]

Now you have 30 slots bag for what? Having your 20 feasts and...maybe 20 potions...2 stones and...what else? Why do you need now all that space bags?

None of this shit was fun for most people. Needing to be at some arbitrary cap just to do your job wasn't fun. Juggling 3 sets of gear as a hybrid wasn't fun. Getting a new piece of gear and having to wait till you could go gem, enchant, and completely rework all your reforges just to equip it wasn't fun. People look back and say OH MY GOD SUCH CUSTOMIZATION WOW but it really wasn't very fun at all. There wasn't much choice, there was one correct choice and you ran it through your calculations and you got the correct choice and you just did that. Boring

Why do you talk for must people, are you must people, you know the opinion of must people?

Are you aware that the people who played Vanilla have families/adult duties now and simply have no time to play anymore? Gaming standards have changed, and if the game didnt change too, the population would be abysmall.

Put off your rose-tinted glasses, the game is good as it is, and the fact that it still retains a couple of millions players only proves the changes WERE needed, else the game would be long dead now.

Yet while the old system was up, the game only grows. Since the changes, they lost and lost and lost players.

Again, thing that many people still don't get i thing. Some of us DO NOT WANT to make retail like Vanilla again. I don't want that, i enjoy retail how it is. I just want the possibility to play AGAIN Vanilla, that Blizzard give me the opportunity to play again APART from retail. I don't want retail to change, i just want the opportunity to play both cause Blizzard give me the chance to do ith.

[NicoWolf]

Are you aware that the people who played Vanilla have families/adult duties now and simply have no time to play anymore? Gaming standards have changed, and if the game didnt change too, the population would be abysmall.

Put off your rose-tinted glasses, the game is good as it is, and the fact that it still retains a couple of millions players only proves the changes WERE needed, else the game would be long dead now.

But how else can people feel relevant spewing nonsense opinions about how dead a game is that they still throw their money into?

The game is fine; people are afraid of change because how they *think* it will burden them. It happens every time Blizzard changes something.

Blizzard makes a change, we become used to that change, even to the point that we start to genuinely like those changes. Then along comes another change that threatens to upset the balance we feel has been struck; rinse, repeat. Sure there are always going to be outliers who, like OP, complain about "its not the same", foolishly stuck in a rut of nostalgia, either because they were not able to adapt or because their once elite status is now commonplace. None of them ever consider how the game would be if it never changed, never evolved, and never adjusted to match the desires of the userbase.

Every aspect of the game has this problem. People bitched about LFR, that it was tainting the righteous sanctity of raiding, as it they held some ownership over the aspect of the game to the point they felt justified in deeming everyone beneath them as "casuals". Same with PvP; a change comes along that allows the casual player or even an enthusiastic player to feel as if they can compete and elitists bitch about how its ruining the game.

Its pretty sad, honestly.

[deniter]

From another Vanilla player, I disagree with literally everything you said. The game lost its "glory" for you because it's not new like it once was.

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Yeah, having to keep one of your precious bags filled with ammo just to play the game was super fun right?

Who told Blizzard to make ammo stack in such small stacks? There could have been endless possibilities to design ammo and give options to craft very special ammunition and arrows for different situations. But no, they are not fun because they take too much room in your precious bags.. lets take them away completely.

[Deathquoi]

Who told Blizzard to make ammo stack in such small stacks? There could have been endless possibilities to design ammo and give options to craft very special ammunition and arrows for different situations. But no, they are not fun because they take too much room in your precious bags.. lets take them away completely.

What about the ammo system was fun? There wasn't a single aspect of it that actually added anything to gameplay.

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Now you have 30 slots bag for what? Having your 20 feasts and...maybe 20 potions...2 stones and...what else? Why do you need now all that space bags?



Why do you talk for must people, are you must people, you know the opinion of must people?



Yet while the old system was up, the game only grows. Since the changes, they lost and lost and lost players.

Again, thing that many people still don't get i thing. Some of us DO NOT WANT to make retail like Vanilla again. I don't want that, i enjoy retail how it is. I just want the possibility to play AGAIN Vanilla, that Blizzard give me the opportunity to play again APART from retail. I don't want retail to change, i just want the opportunity to play both cause Blizzard give me the chance to do ith.

VANILLA IS NOT FUCKING COMING BACK. It's not. I wish it would so all the babies who cry about how much better vanilla was could just fuck off to their own servers and jack off over 12 year old gameplay but it's not happening. The game lost players because it was old.

[Deleted]

Wow, chill dude, chill...

And again, yes, make sense cause u need ammo to shoot. Is logical.

[Eurhetemec]

It makes me wonder if he actually was a vanilla player. Most rotations were fixed with no pop up bullshit, resources were not an issue fot many classes (hunters still used mana ffs) and rotatiobs rotations were incredible simple even relative to today...

Yeah, reading his post it sounds like he's just parroting the arguments of a number of different people who whinged about WoW being "awful now" at various points in WoW history, and making no real sense.

As an ACTUAL vanilla player (since open beta, there day 1 with my collector's edition, etc. etc.), I think for the most part WoW is significantly improved. Gameplay-wise it's not even arguable. Legion has brought back some of the better bits of the Vanilla feel, too, I think.

The only thing that's been a REAL problem has been crossrealm stuff, and I don't know what to do about that, because if they didn't do it, tons and tons and tons of server would have died out entirely due to low pop - as has happened in countless other server-based MMOs, and dungeons would have become as unpopular as they are in other server-based MMOs which have no LFD equivalent (we witnessed this in SWTOR, for example, which had no LFD for ages - I think it got it eventually - anyway when it first hit, it was dead easy to fill dungeon groups by just asking for people, but literally TWO months later, it was getting extremely hard, esp. for leveling dungeons - with WoW it was more like 4 years than 2 months, but still, I remember trying to get people for leveling dungeons above L25 or so in Vanilla/TBC and it was NOT easy...).

So anyway I'd love to see a way to bring back server and guild spirit a bit more, but I have no idea how you'd do it and keep the game playable.

[Deathquoi]

Wow, chill dude, chill...

And again, yes, make sense cause u need ammo to shoot. Is logical.

I don't need to chill, your arguments are stupid and you should be told that they are stupid.

And again, there are things that are LOGICAL based on the real world that are not FUN. My character should need to eat food just to stay alive day to day even if he doesn't need healing, and being able to eat constantly shouldn't be possible. It's logical, but it would be dumb as hell from a gameplay perspective. There, your "logical" argument has been ruined. Please do not repeat it, thanks.

[Eurhetemec]

Again, thing that many people still don't get i thing. Some of us DO NOT WANT to make retail like Vanilla again. I don't want that, i enjoy retail how it is. I just want the possibility to play AGAIN Vanilla, that Blizzard give me the opportunity to play again APART from retail. I don't want retail to change, i just want the opportunity to play both cause Blizzard give me the chance to do ith.

I'd love to see them bring back a Vanilla-era servers with full Vanilla-era gameplay, just so all the people who wish they could play that period could go play it, and see what it was ACTUALLY like. It's a huge pity they got rid of Nostalrius because it was providing a service in educating people that, actually things were not all that fun back then.

[Traveler Voltin]

Who told Blizzard to make ammo stack in such small stacks? There could have been endless possibilities to design ammo and give options to craft very special ammunition and arrows for different situations. But no, they are not fun because they take too much room in your precious bags.. lets take them away completely.

code issues. i assume. it took them until wrath to actually update the stacks to large amounts.
less inventory=less money making.

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I'd love to see them bring back a Vanilla-era servers with full Vanilla-era gameplay, just so all the people who wish they could play that period could go play it, and see what it was ACTUALLY like. It's a huge pity they got rid of Nostalrius because it was providing a service in educating people that, actually things were not all that fun back then.

Nost was closing anyway.

[Deleted]

I'd love to see them bring back a Vanilla-era servers with full Vanilla-era gameplay, just so all the people who wish they could play that period could go play it, and see what it was ACTUALLY like. It's a huge pity they got rid of Nostalrius because it was providing a service in educating people that, actually things were not all that fun back then.

I play since February 2005 so i know how the game was. And like me, there are people that also play since that times. And that people wan't to play it again...yeah maybe we are stupid, we are dumb or just retarded, but is what we like.
@Deathquoi: In game you actually eat, yo ahve foods and potions to not die so...i essence you eat ^^. Also miss to give food to my pets...
@Zanjin: Nost was not closing, infact, they were testing BC back in april to implement for the future cause the game have more a more players. They close cause obviously a demand for Blizzard is to big to face again.