Who else is pissed about the nerfs to prot?

[Deleted]

As someone who previously mained prot warrior for 8 years...
I'm more surprised how shocked some of you people are of these nerfs.
Prot was insanely OP, was giggling at my friend who said I made the wrong decision and warriors will be top tanks...trolololol..what ?

Prot has never and will never have anything that puts us as top tank.
Vanilla is over guys :P

[Deleted]

I dont understand how you guys think warriors were balanced, looking on the logs, they shit on every other tank, hell they heal themselves nore than blood dks while taking less damage, i'm not sure this nerf is even enough, i dont know if this was the proper way to nerf them, but they certainly needed one.

They could have Nerfed us in a much better way though: Vengeance is a garbage talent now, taking it is opting for a much more complex playstyle with barely any defensive benefit (1 rage saved per IP), Blizzard have previously stated that passive talents should be weaker that ones that require active play, well this nerf blows that off.

Why couldn't they just decrease the IP absorb cap or decrease IP absorb amount per rage spent, or even decreases the damage reduction affect of IP, or Decrease IP duration? Any, or a combination of them would achieve a similar goal, but not flush a talent down the toilet. They haven't even disclosed why they've chose to take this route. "why not Dump RFDT? why make prot even less proccy, and why make it less punishing for not reacting to them? If prot is too touch decrease passive damage reductions, don't screw with playstyles

[booi]

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think the changes are well thought out and in-line with what we need.

Hitting the see-saw portion of ignore pain/focussed rage allows you to still deal more damage and generate more absorbs than you would without vengeance. It closes the gap on the competing talents which were largely ignored. Without Ultimatum you end up with (depending on rounding) effective 60 rage ignore pains for 59 rage, but you also get a 'free' focussed rage cast every cycle of the see-saw.

This combined with ultimatum, battle cry, and ~35% SS crit nets you ~4 free focussed rages which translates into ~120 extra rage per minute for ignore pain.


For those who were looking for scaling changes so that ignore pain was less powerful in lower tier content - that is what the base rage generation nerf hits. We gain rage from our abilities and damage taken. Because ability rage is effectively fixed and we gain more rage from damage taken in mythic raids - the rage nerf affects us less in higher end content than it does in lower end content.

/blah

[Tenjen]

i was expecting nerfs but not the sort that hurt the flow of the spec instead of targeting the abilities in question.

[Badump]

For those who were looking for scaling changes so that ignore pain was less powerful in lower tier content - that is what the base rage generation nerf hits. We gain rage from our abilities and damage taken. Because ability rage is effectively fixed and we gain more rage from damage taken in mythic raids - the rage nerf affects us less in higher end content than it does in lower end content.

/blah

/thread

Honestly warrior tanks were TOO powerful and topping healing on some fights. If you don't think that is ridiculous i'm unsure what else can be said.

[Indless]

They nerfed those, and now they are saying they gonna tune IP down, so in blizzard terms prot warriors gonna die XD

[Revi]

I only play prot as an alt, so take this with a grain of salt, but it makes sense to me to reduce rage gen to make IP something you save for big hits rather than something you can pump out very frequently. You're already easier to heal than most tanks in raids with just shield block up, the frequent and powerful IP on top made you overpowered.

[Leih]

/thread

Honestly warrior tanks were TOO powerful and topping healing on some fights. If you don't think that is ridiculous i'm unsure what else can be said.

Prot warriors will still be extremely high on healing done, because Skada/Recount count self-absorbs as "healing done." If you counted the mitigation of other tanks as "healing done" they'd be super high too.

I'm not disagreeing prot warriors had a nerf inc, but "they're top of healing meters!!!" is such a weird thing to use as an argument, unless you're just a healer who feels threatened?

[Jazzhands]

Welcome to the life of every other tank, pooling resources and using them at an intelligent time to mitigate large hits, instead of nearly constantly blanketing yourself with ridiculous amounts of absorb.

The way they needed it is a little odd, but over all itjust does what I said above, you'll have to learn fights and actually use IP when large damage is coming, you can't just use it whenever now and keep it refreshed all the time.

[Moggers1990]

It stacks exactly twice.

Er.. No

The IP cap was 3x 60 rage IPs, 6x 60 Rage IPs with Never Surrender.

All they needed to do was either reduce the cap to what you thought it was, or make you ignore 50-70% and not 90% so we needed to be healed a bit more. What they've done is complete overkill as rage generation in 5 mans was absolutely fuck all to begin with.


The spec was already boring as fuck. As people have said, Vengeance weaving and playing the class well to get IP's up was the fun part. That's ruined.

People don't realise that due to the nature of Warrior mitigation now and with zero self healing unlike other classes, IP needs to be damn near as "overpowered" as what it was to be viable.

[booi]

As people have said, Vengeance weaving and playing the class well to get IP's up was the fun part. That's ruined.

I'ts not ruined. You still get the benefit of all the focused rages and end up with an extra 120 rage for ignore pains every minute. (A result of the ultimatum talent).

[Zoldor]

They nerfed those, and now they are saying they gonna tune IP down, so in blizzard terms prot warriors gonna die XD

Do you have a link to them stating that after these nerfs IP is also going to get a % nerf?

I'm not geared enough to be a walking god, as my itemization is way off, but I figure the only thing that will suck is weaving will be slightly less meaningful and the start of fights will be a little more annoying. I feel like we are going to feel a lot slower than before, but I think we'll be okay as we scale up hopefully.

If these are the only changes I'm fine, but this plus an IP change would hurt the feels a little bit especially because I didn't have time to choose which tank I wanted to raid, I basically got to level my warrior and not my DK. Starting to wonder if I should have leveled the DK instead. Oh well, I've played the non number 1 tank plenty of times.

Since, I'm complaining, the gear in EN is so poorly itemized for us as well. So much fucking crit and no Haste/Vers combo pieces. I was sad when I saw that.

[Zortorai90]

They nerfed those, and now they are saying they gonna tune IP down, so in blizzard terms prot warriors gonna die XD

Wait, what?
They are nerfing the rage generation AND tuning down Ignore Pain?

[GT4]

Prot warriors will still be extremely high on healing done, because Skada/Recount count self-absorbs as "healing done." If you counted the mitigation of other tanks as "healing done" they'd be super high too.

I'm not disagreeing prot warriors had a nerf inc, but "they're top of healing meters!!!" is such a weird thing to use as an argument, unless you're just a healer who feels threatened?

You realize that ignore pain is supposed to be prot's equivalent to e.g. DK self-healing? (semi-spammable heal/absorb that's indirectly based on damage taken)

Shield block is the equivalent to bone shield. (passive damage reduction that can be kept up with some haste)

If you look at those abilities, you actually see it's the other way round. Bone shield actually counts as absorb whereas blocking from shield block does not - and still warriors were higher on HPS (even discounting the aura) without having their actual mitigation count as HPS than DKs with their mitigation counting as HPS.

- - - Updated - - -

Er.. No

The IP cap was 3x 60 rage IPs, 6x 60 Rage IPs with Never Surrender.

All they needed to do was either reduce the cap to what you thought it was, or make you ignore 50-70% and not 90% so we needed to be healed a bit more. What they've done is complete overkill as rage generation in 5 mans was absolutely fuck all to begin with.


The spec was already boring as fuck. As people have said, Vengeance weaving and playing the class well to get IP's up was the fun part. That's ruined.

People don't realise that due to the nature of Warrior mitigation now and with zero self healing unlike other classes, IP needs to be damn near as "overpowered" as what it was to be viable.

You don't seem to realize that IP was the equivalent to other classes' (blood DK being the class you can compare to the easiest) self-healing and absorbs are strictly superior to heals because they not only let you sustain but also increase your effective HP pool against burst.

If you talk about IP as your mitigation, you're completely neglecting that warriors have shield block which isn't even taken into account for HPS (even though many damage reduction effects for other tanks, e.g. blessed hammer and bone shield, are).

Edit: Did a quick check and for the highest Blood DK on Ursoc HC (HPS-wise), exactly 50% of his HPS is made up for by bone shield's 20% damage reduction - and still his self-healing is below the absorption of the #1 warrior (excluding inspiring presence here). If you were consistent here and either included shield block or ignored bone shield, warrior absorption would pretty much double blood DK self-healing.

[THE Bigzoman]

I only play prot as an alt, so take this with a grain of salt, but it makes sense to me to reduce rage gen to make IP something you save for big hits rather than something you can pump out very frequently. You're already easier to heal than most tanks in raids with just shield block up, the frequent and powerful IP on top made you overpowered.

Here's the problem with that:

Ignore Pain doesn't live up to the rage cost in higher content, given that it disappears almost as fast as you pop it.

[Deleted]

Yep, people will cry till they see these exact words in balance notes: ignore pain absorb reduced by %??.
I mean what do you expect of people who bring "1m absorb shield in 5mans" argument to the table?

and as a dev you listen to that? they shouldve just nerfed IP%. i just tanked a dungeon, the flow is gone, i am with an empty rage bar waiting to slam and vengence to get rage >.>

these devs are a bunch of fckin morons, i tell you that. at least they could TEST this in a proper environment and conclude that it damages the gameplay.

[Nakotsu]

These changes piss me off so much. Completely unnecessary and incredibly short sighted. Reducing Shield Slam and Intercept rage are just going to leave us even MORE rage starved in low damage or off tanking situations, and reducing vengeance is just retarded, as it now has almost 0 mitigation value and is purely a dps talent now, effectively destroying the one talent that made the otherwise braindead prot warrior tolerable. Of course, now it's too late to level an alt in time for raiding, so I'm stuck playing with this shit for a while.

I would have much preferred a straight up 15% nerf to IP, which would leave us top dog for now, but more in line with the other tanks.


Edit: For those unclear, Vengeance is a pure dps talent now because the mitigation value of it was that it saved you rage. Every cycle of vengeance saved you a net of 15 rage, meaning that every 2 cycles, you saved enough for another full value ignore pain. Now, a full cycle of vengeance costs us 58.5 rage, meaning that it takes 26 cycles of vengeance to get a single extra Ignore Pain. The only thing it offers is all the extra Focused Rage now.

Can you imagine how Demon Hunters are feeling they got the brunt of the nerfs. And already cant survive incoming damage.

[IIamaKing]

Did they actually confirm that there is going to be a separated IP nerf, or is that just speculation based on that one forum post by Ornyx?

No to the first part, yes to the 2nd part. There is no reason to assume there are further nerfs to IP coming, as they already greatly nerfed it.

[HumbleDuck]

and as a dev you listen to that? they shouldve just nerfed IP%. i just tanked a dungeon, the flow is gone, i am with an empty rage bar waiting to slam and vengence to get rage >.>

these devs are a bunch of fckin morons, i tell you that. at least they could TEST this in a proper environment and conclude that it damages the gameplay.

My comment was in response to a person who stated this was not a nerf to IP and IP needs more nerf.
I absolutely agree with you on the fact that nerfing rage generation is disrupting the flow ( as clunky as it was before) of the class, at least at the current state of the game.

[Deleted]

/thread

Honestly warrior tanks were TOO powerful and topping healing on some fights. If you don't think that is ridiculous i'm unsure what else can be said.

Why is everyone so obsessed with the numbers in the heal meter from tanks? It means nothing, because that part of the damage reduction. The difference in HPS between one tank class and another is simply damage that the tank with less HPS isnt taking in the first place. My monk tank partner last expansion had 3-4x as much HPS, but this doesnt mean he has 3-4x of my survivability.