Blizzard nerfing aoe without considering ST?

[goriander]

Which is still a lot more than most the specs Outlaw is ahead of on ST does, try again.

Then you're playing with some shitty ass players, most people I play with in mythic +s do 500-800k on trash.

[Deleted]

Then you're playing with some shitty ass players, most people I play with in mythic +s do 500-800k on trash.

There we go again, you hurl insults instead trying to argue your case.
Really, trying justify that Havoc should have weak ST because cause they have good AoE while linking a sim where Outlaws are ranked 3rd on single target, just makes you look silly.

[Kheirn]

The difference is havocs pulling 2m aoe dps while outlaws struggle to do anything above 600k.

Once a minute for a couple of seconds, sure. It's not 2m sustained DPS.

[Traxwow]

Oh no, I rolled FOTM because it was topping the meters and now I'm just an average class.

INFRACTION

[Narzok]

could someone, for the sake of a fair discussion, post a SINGLE TARGET (meaning any number of players agains ONE BOSS and NO ADDS) log from before the nerf?

Noone who has a working braincell left denies that havoc had a huge advantage on burst AoE.

What we complain about is that a considerable amount of SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE (again, against ONE boss WITHOUT ADDS) is now nerfed with no real reason.

And to those crying about mobility demanding lower dps: lol? rogues were more often than not among the strongest dps in any given tier,
and their mobility and ability to cheese stuff, was far better than others at the same time.
Lets look at an example: Iron juggernault, SoO. Rogue could jump on mines 2 of 3 times, and could shadowstep back instandly after the knockback that send everyone else across the room. Did they do trash dps because of that? no, and it was fine. Aoe Whirl on Garrosh, rogue can cloak it just fine and tunnel the boss.

My guess is that they did not think far enough with the bloodlet and TG thing affecting ST.
So either they only nerf those on secondary targets and reverse the maintarget-nerf, or they bring things like first blood up to a point where it could be considered an alternative.

Not being able to choose between talents because 2 of 3 are garbage is bad design, being forced to choose between 3 bad ones is ridiculous.

[Beet]

That's true if you're in the world first race but even then you'll have multiple characters geared and ready for different encounters if your main isn't optimal for it. If you're in a casual guild that plans to progress through mythic EN in a two or three months you won't be missing out on anything by playing only one class even if your spec isn't optimal for every fight.

DH is in a great spot right now and will probably see further nerfs to their single target damage so havoc has clear strengths and weaknesses. Seems like most people that play DH are new to the game and can't seem to grasp the basics of class balance.

As someone whos been here since Nov 2004, you seem to be the one new to the game.

- - - Updated - - -

There we go again, you hurl insults instead trying to argue your case.
Really, trying justify that Havoc should have weak ST because cause they have good AoE while linking a sim where Outlaws are ranked 3rd on single target, just makes you look silly.

Haha yeah it's sad.

[goriander]

There we go again, you hurl insults instead trying to argue your case.
Really, trying justify that Havoc should have weak ST because cause they have good AoE while linking a sim where Outlaws are ranked 3rd on single target, just makes you look silly.

It's not an insult, it's a simple fact. Oh and outlaw was also nerfed.
Isn't it enough proof that havoc is the best performing dps spec in EN that havoc needed these nerfs?

[Bad Management]

Yeah they've only owned the MMO genre for 12 years and released what is arguably the best expansion yet for WoW. Clearly, they are clueless.

Easy being on top with no competition

[Akachan]

EN hasnt been out a week. Theres no way they based those nerfs on 5 days of data. Doing so would be fucking retarded. No those nerfs are based from myth+ dungeons. That is the only reliable metric they have. But in nerfing our aoe they also deliberately nerfed our single target and changed our rotation. Just in time for myth raids too. Well done devs. /rolls eyes

[Deleted]

It's not an insult, it's a simple fact. Oh and outlaw was also nerfed.
Isn't it enough proof that havoc is the best performing dps spec in EN that havoc needed these nerfs?

On single target? Are you saying that havoc is the best performing spec single target in EN?

And the sim you linked was post nerf wasn't it?

[Hexme]

Yeah they've only owned the MMO genre for 12 years and released what is arguably the best expansion yet for WoW. Clearly, they are clueless.

Wotlk with 12 million subs says hi, Legion will be lucky if it can even reach WoD numbers..

Anyways on topic, Blizzard seriously fubard hard with the DH nerf. Our class design has most of our abilities not only be in our aoe rotation but in our st rotation as well. Three of our abilities are in our st/aoe rotation while the other two abilities that we have are st only (unless you have the aoe talent), this is not inc the af traits/abilities like FotI.

After this nerf not only is our aoe gonna go down but so is our st which is gonna put us on the bottom 10 specs out of the 35 ish dps specs.

[goriander]

On single target? Are you saying that havoc is the best performing spec single target in EN?

No because that isn't the case and why should it be? Single target dps is not the only thing that matters in most encounters.

[Rawkfist]

The difference is havocs pulling 2m aoe dps while outlaws struggle to do anything above 600k.

lolwut, get better at pirate, yes, havoc would be 2mil, but outlaw easily sits right at 1.5mil in any situation havoc can do 2.

[Deleted]

No because that isn't the case and why should it be? Single target dps is not the only thing that matters in most encounters.

Because the nerf to single target is what is being discussed in this thread.

[Krille]

Because the nerf to single target is what is being discussed in this thread.

Don't bother, the guy has been in every DH thread so far screaming "DESERVED" when he knows fuckall about the spec.

Probably got beaten by some random havoc in his normal EN runs.

[tehdef]

Yes. I did a quick run through on what the #1 Havoc DPS parse for Ursoc would look like with the nerfs. He had 324k DPS, and with the nerfs to his rotation and his potion, he drops to 289k DPS.

[Rehok]

could someone, for the sake of a fair discussion, post a SINGLE TARGET (meaning any number of players agains ONE BOSS and NO ADDS) log from before the nerf?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/#boss=1841

[goriander]

Because the nerf to single target is what is being discussed in this thread.

The OP states "Looking at statistics, we will - after changes, be the lowest single target dps by far, no doubt" even though havoc is still ahead of many other specs in single target dps while also being miles ahead of them in aoe damage.

Don't you see the problem here? Havoc's single target dps needs to be nerfed further (or the other classes that are behind havoc need some major buffs) yet you're complaining here about the initial nerf. This thread is a total joke.

[Krille]

The OP states "Looking at statistics, we will - after changes, be the lowest single target dps by far, no doubt" even though havoc is still ahead of many other specs in single target dps while also being miles ahead of them in aoe damage.

Don't you see the problem here? Havoc's single target dps needs to be nerfed further (or the other classes that are behind havoc need some major buffs) yet you're complaining here about the initial nerf. This thread is a total joke.

Havoc AOE is still good after the nerfs but nothing special. Fire mages, WW monks, Outlaw rogues, Unholy/Frost DKs, MM/BM Hunters will all most likely match our AOE while shitting on us ST. You're deluded and clueless about the spec.

[goriander]

Don't bother, the guy has been in every DH thread so far screaming "DESERVED" when he knows fuckall about the spec.

Probably got beaten by some random havoc in his normal EN runs.

I've posted in two DH threads to clear off some confusion about the nerf and why it was needed. Don't be pissed because your class was nerfed from being ridiculously overpowered to just being overpowered.

Fire mages, WW monks, Outlaw rogues, Unholy/Frost DKs, MM/BM Hunters will all most likely match our AOE will shitting on us ST.

L2p issue. A decent havoc will never lose to DKs and hunters in pure single target fights. Add in some mechanics that require you to move away from the raid and the gap between DH and DK becomes even larger.

Also I've probably spent more time playing DH than you have so don't act like you know better than me how the class plays.