So who runs flags now?

[Deleted]

Tanks sure don't, what with the whole dying in a global to a rogue / druid stunlock while doing a fraction of a DPS' output with the templates active.
Is it demon hunters? healers? I'm at a loss. Also very bored in RBGs.

Signed, a blood DK.

[Will]

You people are overreacting. Tanks now take 25% more damage and do 10% less damage. 10% less damage of 'too much damage for a tank to be doing' is still a lot of damage. 25% more dmg taken of 'not much damage taken' is still 'not much damage taken'.

Dying in a global to a rogue is an EXTREME exaggeration. Global means literally 1s (rogue GCD is 1s) Pre-nerf a rogue would take well over 15s to nuke me down from a burst surprise attack. Now I take 25% more damage. 15 seconds becomes 12 seconds. 15 seconds does not become 1-2 seconds. For that to happen I'd have to have been nerfed to take 750% more damage.

If I do 10% less damage and before it took on average 20 seconds to kill someone, it now takes ~22 seconds. Wow, a whole 2 seconds longer, the sky is falling! Hardly what I'd call a 'fraction'.

Tanks were OP before, now they're... more balanced with DPS, yet people act as if they've gone from OP to completely non-viable. What a load of melodramatic tosh! Why do people blow things so completely out of proportion like this? And did it not occur that many DPS specs have had their templates nerfed too?

And you're bored in RBGs. Find something else to do if it doesn't interest you. Nobody here needs to know you're bored. What makes your boredom so newsworthy?

[Krusza]

Tanks sure don't, what with the whole dying in a global to a rogue / druid stunlock while doing a fraction of a DPS' output with the templates active.
Is it demon hunters? healers? I'm at a loss. Also very bored in RBGs.

Signed, a blood DK.

If you're dying in a global as a tank, it's clearly a L2P issue at this point.

Tanks are still the only viable FCs.

[Deleted]

It was implied to be as a flag runner, being focused by an enemy team.

Before the gutting of talents, IBF or Rune Tap could hold me over, but currently if I am to get CCd, i'll die in 4-5 seconds with only a last stand hp wall to save my hide from the onslaught. For many tanks similar situations apply - to the extent that you'd gimp yourself by running a tank instead of an extra dps or healer. It's not about killing enemies, it's about being unable to tank those very enemies and the inability to fine tune anything, with templates being a thing.

I'd like to see a tank being a 'viable' flag runner in a scenario where a dps wouldn't be better for the team's overall performance. Maybe demon hunters or guardians could pull it off - I can't really see the rest of them as such.

[lolpve]

DPS classes have been running flags for more than a decade, tanks are not necessary in pvp and are generally toxic to the health of competitive pvp.

[Ultima]

Prot Paladins look fantastic for it.

However, I feel most DPS/Tanks are fine to carry it in a Random BG. RBG would require more thought.

What's your RBG like? Do you use voice? Line-up CDs? Are your healers falling asleep at their keyboards because they find it as boring as you do?

[KampKanye]

Blood got everything that made it a decent FC gutted for legion and now doesn't even have a decent defensive compared to most other specs, so you shouldn't go anywhere near the flag (or instanced pvp really) as a blood DK. The best FC from what I can tell is Vengeance, because it can clear most of mid without even touching the ground.

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DPS classes have been running flags for more than a decade, tanks are not necessary in pvp and are generally toxic to the health of competitive pvp.

Just because a dps class has run flags doesn't make it optimal. It usually takes a dps with something stupidly overpowered like the broken Burst of Speed. Typically, bears have been one of the best tanks for carrying since they get all of the feral mobility perks like dash and kitty speed buff inside, and they could shift spam. Blood DKs were probably the best for sitting with a flag, because they used to have a way to defend themselves and several ways to go immune to cc (IBF, Lichborne, AMS that wasn't gone in a frostbolt, etc).

[Valedus]

Blood DK is probably going to function as a target caller, but I don't know if its better than that DK just being frost or unholy. They do have some nice PVP talent tricks, though. I personally think prot paladin, Druid, or Veng DH.

[Traxwow]

Blood DK is probably going to function as a target caller, but I don't know if its better than that DK just being frost or unholy. They do have some nice PVP talent tricks, though. I personally think prot paladin, Druid, or Veng DH.

Frost DK is bad, why bring unholy when you can bring an execute. Blood only "viable" dk spec above 2k

[Madcuzbad]

probably a druid?

[Snegovik]

I did last weekends 1 RBG win for a box (which didnt drop since it was bugged), but we had 2 DHs in our grp, 1 DH was TC and 2nd DH was FC, our FC did pretty good job but it was like 1.8k MMR...so not many skilled players so maybe we just got Lucky, but our FC did not die once.

[Saverem]

Tanks are still the only viable FCs.

Not really, double FSK/Chi Torpedo WWs are pretty good, Rogues are still good, DHs (Havoc and Veng) are good, Feral Druids are good.

[Krusza]

Not really, double FSK/Chi Torpedo WWs are pretty good, Rogues are still good, DHs (Havoc and Veng) are good, Feral Druids are good.

Well anything is viable if the MMR is low enough.

At higher MMR you won't see anything but tanks.

[Saverem]

Well anything is viable if the MMR is low enough.

At higher MMR you won't see anything but tanks.

You're using WoD mentality. Tank defenses have been SEVERELY nerfed this expansion. They are barely better than DPS in terms of survival. You're better off with someone with good mobility than with a tank.

[Axaion]

What OP has not told is that hes a twink that refuses to level over lvl 59 most likely.


Man im amazed hes not crying about disc priest wrecking his day with penance.

[Valedus]

You're using WoD mentality. Tank defenses have been SEVERELY nerfed this expansion. They are barely better than DPS in terms of survival. You're better off with someone with good mobility than with a tank.

Or a tank with good mobility, since the limit on move speed happens pretty quickly. There are tanks with multiple CD's, while most DPS only have ~1 defensive.
If you use a rogue or a DH flag carrier, you better hope that you can kill EFC (and keep yours alive) before stacks limit mobility.

[Deleted]

Mobility is the key in carrying flags, Tank DH's carry flags in RBG's now as they can clear half the map quickly. Tanks haven't been carrying flags for a long time now. However whoever is sitting in the flag room after the rogue/DH/druid has delivered it is up for debate.

[Saverem]

Tanks have the defensive spells to still mitigate some damage past 8 stacks. Any other dps would simply explode at 8 stacks.

P.S. Smoke bomb into shadowy duel done proper thats 11 sec at 8 stacks without healer or even help. Only one I can imagine surviving this is a tank with all their defensives.

I'm talking about running the flag, not holding it.

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Or a tank with good mobility, since the limit on move speed happens pretty quickly. There are tanks with multiple CD's, while most DPS only have ~1 defensive.
If you use a rogue or a DH flag carrier, you better hope that you can kill EFC (and keep yours alive) before stacks limit mobility.

Monks have 2 FSKs, 2 Chi Torpedos, and a Transcendence. It's enough to get them to the other side of the map in seconds.

[Valenhil]

Protection Paladin is the premier flag runner right now, due to Steed of Glory paired with Cavalier.

Ideally a Human, as the only thing they're vulnerable to while mounted is a stun, which humans get one extra trinket for.

[Snegovik]

Ok so last night i finally got to do RBGs at decent MMR, facing 1.9k-2kcr teams. I must say the BEST FC i am yet to meet is a Veng DH, like that spec sacrifices a lot of dmg/utility (i think?) for its mobility via talents, but man you can NOT catch Veng DH on open, that tank crossed entire field with a flag in like 15-20 seconds it was insane, i was playing as DH havoc in those bgs, i was speced 50% slow on my glaive toss, extra fell rush on my VR and 2x FR while blur is active, and i couldnt get him down, all i managed is to get him to 60% till he just started popping those "heroic leaps" like a giant frog and there is nothing i could do... So ya boys if you want have a fast FC def try Veng DH, i am considering myself if i should play Veng as an off spec for FC RBGs