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  1. #81
    Man gets in trouble for exercising rights afforded to him as a citizen.

    I sure hope the people in the thread shitting on the constitution hate the 2nd amendment as much as they hate the 1st.

  2. #82
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The main thing it got me to think is that Kap is a spoiled child that went for an attention grab when his skills eroded. Him playing at being black after being raised by white people and having pretty much the most privileged possible life looks really ridiculous with a step back.

    That particular "conversation" would be another good example of someone in a position of power, wealth, and privilege lecturing people that can't say anything back though.
    You seem to approach EVERYTHING that way though, so you're not likely the core audience anyways.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Because some points need to be made, and are that important. Whats caused me to change my mind over this is the sheer amount of willful "You're not doing patriotism right. BAD PERSON" that gets thrown around to people who don't regard these rituals as important.

    Is it so hard to be like "I dont like what you do, but you have the freedom to do it and it doesnt make you a bad person or a bad AMerican"?
    You are asking for acceptance of such actions, when all is required is tolerance. It is not illegal to do them, but it is perfectly fine to voice one's counter view of their actions.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    And that's the issue. People put too much into a piece of cloth.
    To those specific people the flag isn't a piece of cloth, akin to a napkin or a blanket - but a touchable item that symbolizes those values.
    To said people disrespecting the flag isn't merely desecrating a piece of cloth, but showing that they do not care about what the flag symbolizes.

    I doubt that there would be the same backlash if he had actually burned\stomped\whatever an actual piece of cloth.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Because some points need to be made, and are that important. Whats caused me to change my mind over this is the sheer amount of willful "You're not doing patriotism right. BAD PERSON" that gets thrown around to people who don't regard these rituals as important.

    Is it so hard to be like "I dont like what you do, but you have the freedom to do it and it doesnt make you a bad person or a bad AMerican"?
    Because to me it "does" make you a bad person. Just like WBC are bad people, BLM are bad people, and the KKK are bad people

  6. #86
    Deleted
    It is a fucking flag... this part about America never ceases to astound me: ''OMG THEY'RE STOMPING ON A DYED PIECE OF FABRIC! BURN IN HELL TRAITOR COMMIE!''... Animals being treated like shit: ''eh idgaf *eats hamburgers*''

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    You seem to approach EVERYTHING that way though, so you're not likely the core audience anyways.
    Probably an understatement. I'm generally unimpressed with empty-headed celebrities publicly posturing.

  8. #88
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Because to me it "does" make you a bad person. Just like WBC are bad people, BLM are bad people, and the KKK are bad people
    and this is where I cant really argue with you, because we have radically different view points on this.

    but maybe its cause I saw a racist cop arrest Ricky Williams for not giving his given name (but lets other people with similar 'I go by this name but its not my legal name" go free. He got hsi ass fired once it was revealed he was running a racist website against blacks. SO in that vein, I can sympathise with the protest because there are shit cops who shit all over minorities.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Because to me it "does" make you a bad person. Just like WBC are bad people, BLM are bad people, and the KKK are bad people
    Are the KKK bad people because it's socially unacceptable for you to like them, or because you actually disagree with them? If you do disagree with them, please tell me how.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risale View Post
    Only if you apply that to also to the athletes sitting/kneeling etc otherwise you are being biased and guilty of profiling a person.
    The problem I have with this is that he did it while attempting to teach children. Athletes do it because they like to stir the shitpot. If he'd done it at home/a protest or whatever in his spare time then fair play, but he didn't.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Well the people who see it as disrespectful to me are the problem. They very rarely want to have conversations about the problems in America that one side feels is important. These "principles' are also subjectively used, and certainly ignores the core value of protesting, including throwing tea overboard.

    "GET OUT" is such an anti american cop out that anyone who uses it is the true un-american IMO. A
    It's not a cop out at all. If someone hates their fellow Americans and American values so much they feel the need to burn the flag, then leave. If they burn the flag out of hatred and then want to stay and live under its aegis, that is the epitome of hypocrisy.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Well the people who see it as disrespectful to me are the problem. They very rarely want to have conversations about the problems in America that one side feels is important. These "principles' are also subjectively used, and certainly ignores the core value of protesting, including throwing tea overboard.
    Why can't blacks protest peacefully?

    And when one peacefully protests by kneeling during the national anthem?

    No, not like that.

    Peacefully seems to be a code word for invisibly.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by pingasman82 View Post
    It is a fucking flag... this part about America never ceases to astound me: ''OMG THEY'RE STOMPING ON A DYED PIECE OF FABRIC! BURN IN HELL TRAITOR COMMIE!''... Animals being treated like shit: ''eh idgaf *eats hamburgers*''
    If its just a peiece of fabric, why take the time to burn it in protest?

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Taneras View Post
    If that piece of cloth is so unimportant why do people take the time to burn it?
    Because some people haven't yet gotten over it and attach undue worth to it. It highlights, as proven here, that everyone still goes nuts for cloth.

    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Right, and the flag is the material representation of those ideals.

    Why shit on something that's so important to a lot of people, than claim its because you want support for your cause. You certainly aren't going to win any supporters.
    No one's trying to 'win supporters', it's not a black and white issue, or 'us vs them'. Trying to turn it into one just makes things worse.

    The fact you think it's a 'material representation' just reinforces my point about how weird the American view is. If I draw a flag in paint, is that a representation of the ideals too? Where'd you draw the line?

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    It's not a cop out at all. If someone hates their fellow Americans and American values so much they feel the need to burn the flag, then leave. If they burn the flag out of hatred and then want to stay and live under its aegis, that is the epitome of hypocrisy.
    What if the American values being hated are oppression and violence? For example, would you say that a slave who burned the flag should leave because he hates slavery being legal?
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  16. #96
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Well the people who see it as disrespectful to me are the problem. They very rarely want to have conversations about the problems in America that one side feels is important. These "principles' are also subjectively used, and certainly ignores the core value of protesting, including throwing tea overboard.

    "GET OUT" is such an anti american cop out that anyone who uses it is the true un-american IMO. A
    That is your opinion which you are entitled to. I can have the opposite opinion.
    One side feels they are important, the other side does not. That goes with many views.
    Burning the symbol of the entire country is such an anti American cop out that anyone who uses it is the true un-American IMO. (See, cuts both ways.)

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Because to me it "does" make you a bad person. Just like WBC are bad people, BLM are bad people, and the KKK are bad people
    I suppose your list of "good people" is limited only to people who get a raging boner when they hear the word America? I mean hell you've got quite a range of people here, from people expressing their, however distasteful opinion via the flag to people who literally kill other Americans who don't agree with them.

    Protip: you don't get to decide who are bad people. You'll find your life runs a lot easier when you realize that the reason all the people you don't like aren't being punished, arrested, or deported is because they're not actually breaking the law.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  18. #98
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    It's not a cop out at all. If someone hates their fellow Americans and American values so much they feel the need to burn the flag, then leave. If they burn the flag out of hatred and then want to stay and live under its aegis, that is the epitome of hypocrisy.
    Again, American values include peaceful protesting and protection of distasteful views as long as they dont harm or lead to harm.

    So they ARE abiding by Ameircan values. ts just ones you dont agree with.

  19. #99
    I mean, if he was trying to show how the first amendment is the crowing doctrine of our society and how even the most taboo speech and demonstration not only can but must be allowed to be a truly free society then I don't think he should be punished. If he was doing it because he's trying to instill white guilt in them early, then yea that kind of idealotry is well out of scope of his lessons. So I see no reason for it to be part of the lesson and he's just using his status as a teacher to push his beliefs.

    Either way if he's going after the student who took the picture he's a nutcase. Also an idiot who doesn't understand defamation.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    and this is where I cant really argue with you, because we have radically different view points on this.

    but maybe its cause I saw a racist cop arrest Ricky Williams for not giving his given name (but lets other people with similar 'I go by this name but its not my legal name" go free. He got hsi ass fired once it was revealed he was running a racist website against blacks. SO in that vein, I can sympathise with the protest because there are shit cops who shit all over minorities.
    that's fine, protest that cop or the specific police dept. Why burn the flag, the rest of America didn't do shit, the ideals represented by that flag are great ideals, just because people haven't lived up to those ideals doesn't mean it deserves to be burned.

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