Flag-stomping teacher has no regrets, wants student punished

[NineSpine]

Shhhhhhhhhhhh

That's what I thought: You just know it's socially unacceptable to dislike them, but are incapable of formulating an argument against them, even though you seem to have no problem doing so for left wing groups, at length.

[Darkeon]

It is pretty bad when people care about flag more than values this flag is supposed to represent...

Freedom of Speech isn't Freedom of Consequences.

[Theinquisition]

It is pretty bad when people care about flag more than values this flag is supposed to represent...

you can't care about both?

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Freedom of Speech isn't Freedom of Consequences.

stop it RIGHT NOW with your common sense you!!

[NineSpine]

Freedom of Speech isn't Freedom of Consequences.

It is freedom of consequences from government action, and firing him can be construed as government action.

[Theinquisition]

That's what I thought: You just know it's socially unacceptable to dislike them, but are incapable of formulating an argument against them, even though you seem to have no problem doing so for left wing groups, at length.

theres plenty about them to dislike, I just refuse to engage you in any argument. you are not a reasonable person.

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It is freedom of consequences from government action, and firing him can be construed as government action.

If its against school policy....than yeah, fire away.

[Kellhound]

Thats fine too. Protesting a protestor is a perfectly American value, and both sides do it regularly.

Just understand I disagree with your protected speech on calling him anti-AMerican.

You can disagree with me all you want, it will have no affect on my view of anyone.

[Fencers]

Wait a second, OP. Why is the teacher a "piece of trash"?

Did you read the article you yourself posted with the teacher's commentary? He explains his position and intent clearly and succinctly. There are no vague 'reasons'- he literally said the context and expectation he had in the demonstration of a legal case.

OP, your commentary is problematic to the story being presented. It is both biased, derogatory and foolish. You should have not presented your view alongside the articles.

That is poor message boarding.

[Kellhound]

So I see this little teenage twerp didn't understand the lesson that the teacher was teaching; that the First Amendment supports ALL speech, even speech you disagree with, even speech that can be seen as "anti-American."

It would seem it was actually the teacher that failed to take the lesson to heart. The student did nothing more than exercise freedom of speech that the teacher disagreed with.

[Theinquisition]

Wait a second, OP. Why is the teacher a "piece of trash"?

Did you read the article you yourself posted with the teacher's commentary? He explains his position and intent clearly and succinctly. There are no vague 'reasons'- he literally said the context and expectation he had in the demonstration of a legal case.

OP, your commentary is problematic to the story being presented. It is both biased, derogatory and foolish. You should have not presented your view alongside the articles.

That is poor message boarding.

Well, using the "N" word is also something he can do under freedom of speech, and is arguably just as offensive. Doing both is trashy in my book.

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It would seem it was actually the teacher that failed to take the lesson to heart. The student did nothing more than exercise freedom of speech that the teacher disagreed with.

Exactly...HOW DARE HE DISAGREE, VIOLATION OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!

[phitness]

To me this isn't offensive at all. He was stepping on the flag not what it represents. It would have been different if he was yelling allah ahkbar while doing but it's clear it was an engageing way to help the students relate to the first admendment. Unless there is some specific rule or law there that makes this fireable or criminal I dont understand why he was suspended other than political pressure from a mostly military area.

Dude seems like an intelligent and caring teacher so if this ruins his career it's a loss for the youth he could have nurtured.

[Kellhound]

It is freedom of consequences from government action, and firing him can be construed as government action.

Its actually not freedom from consequences from all government action either, and firing him is perfectly acceptable if he is shown to not be able to perform his duties, which a lack of respect from his students may bring about.

[May90]

you can't care about both?

Not in this case, no. Since the teacher specifically stomped on the flag to demonstrate the values it represents, you can't care about the piece of cloth enough to want to throw the teacher out of school, and also support the values the teacher demonstrates at the same time. This is actually a masterful move the teacher pulled out, as it necessarily requires one to take the side in the "pseudo-patriotic nonsense vs societal values" matter.

[Elim Garak]

While reading the OP I imagined them typing the OP wearing only this:


For maximum effect that is.

[Taneras]

While its his right to burn/cut/stomp on the flag, choosing the flag to as the target for the lesson is about as inappropriate as the Quran.

I bet if it were a Quran and the kid were a Muslim we'd see a different reaction from some of the people in this thread.

[NineSpine]

theres plenty about them to dislike, I just refuse to engage you in any argument. you are not a reasonable person.

I'm a very reasonable person. You just don't like getting called on your shit and cornered with our own arguments.

If its against school policy....than yeah, fire away.

Seems like a strange thing to be against school policy, but schools operate under very restricted Constitutional rights, so it's possible.

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Its actually not freedom from consequences from all government action either, and firing him is perfectly acceptable if he is shown to not be able to perform his duties, which a lack of respect from his students may bring about.

I meant "not".

[Kellhound]

Did he though? As far as I know taking pictures of people, without their permission, not in public areas could be against the law.

I kinda find the people who get upset over 'something bad happening to the flag' to be un-american in the sense they don't understand the ideals behind their own country.

Technically, a school room is a public place, and the teacher had no reasonable expectation of privacy.

[ranzino]

While its his right to burn/cut/stomp on the flag, choosing the flag to as the target for the lesson is about as inappropriate as the Quran.

I bet if it were a Quran and the kid were a Muslim we'd see a different reaction from some of the people in this thread.

appropriate or not: even the Quran is not excepted from First Amendment. it's harsh, but still covered by its freedom of speech/ freedom of religion clauses to dislike any religion you want.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

Perhaps I've not read all the facts, but all you liberals crowing that this young man is just the conservative version of the perpetually offended SJW that we conservatives always complain about, false equivalence is false equivalence. This student didn't throw a hysteric fit, he didn't disrespect the teacher, he didn't seek a "safe space" or demand the teacher be fired or that her personally receive some other kind of special consideration. All he did was take a picture, pick up a flag, and deliver it to the principle. If all of you were half this civil in expressing your disagreement, we'd have much less to make fun of you over.

The teacher does have a right to desecrate the flag. Anyone with even the most rudimentary understanding of the 1st Amendment understands that. He is not however free from the public scorn and professional consequences that may stem from his expression. All that being said, it takes very little personal courage to desecrate the American flag these days as it is very much in vogue. Even if he is terminated in that school district, he'll likely be turned into a martyr rewarded greatly by the well funded and deeply entrenched liberal media and education establishment.

[Kellhound]

Can anyone freely walk into a classroom without being told they've no right to be there?

If not then it's not a public space, but private.

That is not how it works, sorry to inform you.

[AndaliteBandit]

I bet if it were a Quran and the kid were a Muslim we'd see a different reaction from some of the people in this thread.

What if it was the Qu'ran and the Bible? Then all of the little strawmen could be outraged together.