Blizzard nerfing aoe without considering ST?

[Sarange]

I've posted in two DH threads to clear off some confusion about the nerf and why it was needed. Don't be pissed because your class was nerfed from being ridiculously overpowered to just being overpowered.



L2p issue. A decent havoc will never lose to DKs and hunters in pure single target fights. Add in some mechanics that require you to move away from the raid and the gap between DH and DK becomes even larger.

Also I've probably spent more time playing DH than you have so don't act like you know better than me how the class plays.

Funny how you only mention DKs. Wonder why.

[Krille]

I've posted in two DH threads to clear off some confusion about the nerf and why it was needed. Don't be pissed because your class was nerfed from being ridiculously overpowered to just being overpowered.



L2p issue. A decent havoc will never lose to DKs and hunters in pure single target fights. Add in some mechanics that require you to move away from the raid and the gap between DH and DK becomes even larger.

Also I've probably spent more time playing DH than you have so don't act like you know better than me how the class plays.

Lol, likewise. I'm doing good ST dps atm, i'm keeping up with arms warriors, outlaw rogues, feral druids. With these nerfs Havoc won't be taken to mythic raids. Rogues bring a lot more utility, even warriors do. Havoc brings fuckall without the bloodlet cleave.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

To be honest, the nerfs to Havoc were less then I expected to be honest. I expected a harsher selection of nerfs.

[Krille]

To be honest, the nerfs to Havoc were less then I expected to be honest. I expected a harsher selection of nerfs.

Remember, just because you've seen good DHs in your raids doesnt mean they're op. Probably something wrong with your other players.

[goriander]

Funny how you only mention DKs. Wonder why.

Yes, I main a DK but it doesn't change the fact that right now both DK dps specs are in a shitty spot. According to Blizzard DKs are supposed to have the highest single target damage to justify the lack of mobility but both of the specs are in the bottom 8 in dps sims.

Lol, likewise. I'm doing good ST dps atm, i'm keeping up with arms warriors, outlaw rogues, feral druids. With these nerfs Havoc won't be taken to mythic raids. Rogues bring a lot more utility, even warriors do. Havoc brings fuckall without the bloodlet cleave.

You don't see it as a balance problem that pre-nerf DHs have the highest aoe dps while they're also able to keep up with the best single target dps specs? The balance patch won't kill DHs, it only brings them closer to being balanced.

Remember, just because you've seen good DHs in your raids doesnt mean they're op. Probably something wrong with your other players.

Most specs in the 75th percentile are outperformed by DHs in the 50th percentile. That means they are OP. Just because you see yourself above others because you're putting out higher numbers than them doesn't mean you're special, your class just happened to be a bit overtuned.

[Deleted]

Oh no, I rolled FOTM because it was topping the meters and now I'm just an average class.

INFRACTION

Because no one was gonna roll a new hero class...

Its not even fotm, ppl want to try new class and if they decided it plays well and tbh i got nothing against playstyle they gonna stick to it...

[Nakotsu]

We all know, that aoe needed to be nerfed, that is fine.
Our single target was fine - not too much, not too little. But with recent changes, this is gonna change.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...sdps&boss=1841

Looking at statistics, we will - after changes, be the lowest single target dps by far, no doubt. Generally, Throw glaive (as example) gets a 50% nerf total ( With Bloodlet in mind ).

My question is, do you think blizzard just did this nerf, without even considering our Single target, and then buffes it later on?
Like.. They just forgot about it? Or do you actually think they wanted to nerf our Single target dps aswell?

umm what are you complaining about the BIG nerfs were to Tanks which arent even on that list.

[yoeljavao]

Nerf the entire class to the ground!

[tehdef]

Yes, I main a DK but it doesn't change the fact that right now both DK dps specs are in a shitty spot. According to Blizzard DKs are supposed to have the highest single target damage to justify the lack of mobility but both of the specs are in the bottom 8 in dps sims.



You don't see it as a balance problem that pre-nerf DHs have the highest aoe dps while they're also able to keep up with the best single target dps specs? The balance patch won't kill DHs, it only brings them closer to being balanced.



Most specs in the 75th percentile are outperformed by DHs in the 50th percentile. That means they are OP. Just because you see yourself above others because you're putting out higher numbers than them doesn't mean you're special, your class just happened to be a bit overtuned.

Ursoc is a 100% single target fight. The highest parse Havoc DH is 224 on the list of thousands of parses. He has 324k DPS. Post nerf adjustments, that SAME parse would have had 289k DPS. That is a 35k DPS loss, and it would actually put him at 1380 on the rankings. The highest DPS parse for a single target fight wouldn't even be represented in the top 1000 players.

You know nothing about this class, and I kindly ask that you refrain from posting since it's clear you have bias.

Look at the numbers. The numbers tell you everything.

[goriander]

Ursoc is a 100% single target fight. The highest parse Havoc DH is 224 on the list of thousands of parses. He has 324k DPS. Post nerf adjustments, that SAME parse would have had 289k DPS. That is a 35k DPS loss, and it would actually put him at 1380 on the rankings. The highest DPS parse for a single target fight wouldn't even be represented in the top 1000 players.

You know nothing about this class, and I kindly ask that you refrain from posting since it's clear you have bias.

Look at the numbers. The numbers tell you everything.

How is that a bad thing? DHs needed this nerf and they'll hopefully be nerfed further.

[Deleted]

How is that a bad thing? DHs needed this nerf and they'll hopefully be nerfed further.

What do you mean by needed??

Does warlock demo deserves buffs?? i hope you wont be hypocirte and say no, cause demonology atm does 297k on ursoc...
Fury warrior does 297k.
Bm hunter does 298k
survi hunter does 281k
They all get buffs because they are too weak, but demon hunter will be balanced with 289k??

When i look at logs i see that arms deserves serious nerf to cleave and st, outlaw rogue(cleave/aoe spec!!) is 2nd on ursoc with 364k dps, while still being best on renferal with 500k dps and 2nd on dragons with 437k dps.

You have outlaw rogue, which is fucking amazing on cleave aoe and st and yet he gets some minor nerfs while dh which is good only at aoe is getting nerfed on single target??

Btw on single target best dh does 324k dps atm, best retri gets 334k dps and retri gets serious buffs...

[goriander]

What do you mean by needed??

Does warlock demo deserves buffs?? i hope you wont be hypocirte and say no, cause demonology atm does 297k on ursoc...
Fury warrior does 297k.
Bm hunter does 298k
survi hunter does 281k
They all get buffs because they are too weak, but demon hunter will be balanced with 289k??

When i look at logs i see that arms deserves serious nerf to cleave and st, outlaw rogue(cleave/aoe spec!!) is 2nd on ursoc with 364k dps, while still being best on renferal with 500k dps and 2nd on dragons with 437k dps.

You have outlaw rogue, which is fucking amazing on cleave aoe and st and yet he gets some minor nerfs while dh which is good only at aoe is getting nerfed on single target??

Btw on single target best dh does 324k dps atm, best retri gets 334k dps and retri gets serious buffs...

Why are you looking at the highest dps parses? These are statistical outliers and they shouldn't be seen as a measurement of a spec's strength. These logs are a result of all the stars aligning and should be ignored. Proc heavy specs will always have ridiculous numbers on the 99.9th percentile. You should use the 75th percentile as it's the only meaningful statistic.

DH's weakness should be their single target dps but right now it's totally mediocre, neither good or bad. You can't and shouldn't have both top tier aoe and strong single target damage.

[Deleted]

Why are you looking at the highest dps parses? These are statistical outliers and they shouldn't be seen as a measurement of a spec's strength. These logs are a result of all the stars aligning and should be ignored. Proc heavy specs will always have ridiculous numbers on the 99.9th percentile. You should use the 75th percentile as it's the only meaningful statistic.

DH's weakness should be their single target dps but right now it's totally mediocre, neither good or bad. You can't and shouldn't have both top tier aoe and strong single target damage.

at 99th 95th, 75th it still lands on the same spot... around current pre buff demo lock.

And should be?? outlaw have no such weakness, neither does arms and both have additional specs to cover for weaknesses...

Also dh already have a major weakness, his only raid cooldown is 8yd aoe which gives you 20% chance to avoid dmg for 8s...weakness shared by both warrior and rogue despite their cds being better

[Jakkhel]

How is that a bad thing? DHs needed this nerf and they'll hopefully be nerfed further.

Demon Hunters needed a nerf to their single target, which wasn't where they were overtuned, but in fact were mediocre?

[goriander]

at 99th 95th, 75th it still lands on the same spot... around current pre buff demo lock.

And should be?? outlaw have no such weakness, neither does arms and both have additional specs to cover for weaknesses...

Also dh already have a major weakness, his only raid cooldown is 8yd aoe which gives you 20% chance to avoid dmg for 8s...weakness shared by both warrior and rogue despite their cds being better

Very few dps specs have any raid cooldowns anymore so this is another strength in DHs kit rather than a weakness. DHs are more mobile and have stronger aoe dps than outlaws so they need to be weaker in single target to keep them in line, how is that not completely clear to you? Btw on the 75th percentile havocs are 20k dps ahead of demo locks and that fight is optimal for casters.

Demon Hunters needed a nerf to their single target, which wasn't where they were overtuned, but in fact were mediocre?

Yes because their kit is so packed that they need a clear WEAKNESS which is their single target dps. Being mediocre in something is not a weakness (although it might feel like it to DH players because they're disgustingly overpowered in all other areas).

[Deleted]

Very few dps specs have any raid cooldowns anymore so this is another strength in DHs kit rather than a weakness. DHs are more mobile and have stronger aoe dps than outlaws so they need to be weaker in single target to keep them in line, how is that not completely clear to you? Btw on the 75th percentile havocs are 20k dps ahead of demo locks.

Idk if 20% dodge is amazing, hardly any tank will die from melee blow and even then youre looking at 1 in 5 chance. Might aswell not exist. Especially when you have things like commanding shout which gives 15% max hp...

yes now get dh and remove 10% because thats how much nerf it will get.

249x0.9=224k.
4k more than lock.

But then i should point out that arms does 33k more dps than dh, while outlaw rogue a fucking aoe spec does 8k more on single target while assasination does 11k...
Where are clear weaknesses for those??

L2p issue. A decent havoc will never lose to DKs and hunters in pure single target fights. Add in some mechanics that require you to move away from the raid and the gap between DH and DK becomes even larger.

Fuck me 75th percantiles on ursoc is 253k mm with again 249k havoc...
By 95th percantiles its 281k mm, 279k havoc
by 99th its 300k mm, 298k dh
max is 354k mm, 324k dh...

It is l2p issue, obviously hunters cant play cause top hunter put 30k more dps on st than dh...

Btw dh loses with mm hunter in single target and is tied at aoe...
MM gets 20% nerf to barrage while havoc gets 10% nerf to st and 20% to overall aoe.

[asdawsd]

L2p issue. A decent havoc will never lose to DKs and hunters in pure single target fights..

That is a lie, please do not lie.
Post a SS of a single fight in which you out dps a DECENT DK, Fire Mage, outlaw rog, MM/BM huntard. ( 10 sec fights do not count )

[goriander]

That is a lie, please do not lie.
Post a SS of a single fight in which you out dps a DECENT DK, Fire Mage, outlaw rog, MM/BM huntard. ( 10 sec fights do not count )

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/#boss=1841

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/#boss=1841

Fire mage 1k above havoc
mm hunter 4k above havoc.
outlaw rogue 8k above havoc.

Whats left?? bm hunter 20k less and dk ill assume unholy 4k less.

[goriander]

Fire mage 1k above havoc
mm hunter 4k above havoc.
outlaw rogue 8k above havoc.

Whats left?? bm hunter 20k less and dk ill assume unholy 4k less.

Exactly, see what's wrong here? Havocs should have the absolute lowest single target damage out of all the classes and specs in the game yet they're in the upper middle of the pack. Holy shit some people are so entitled.