The DH reign is now officially over

[Deleted]

Because that chart may not work in the posters favor. I, too, use whatever data supports the way I lean towards in an argument.

actually, no, look at any percentile other than 99th. Whos top or at least top 3? you guessed correctly, havoc DH

[Fudge]

actually, no, look at any percentile other than 99th. Whos top or at least top 3? you guessed correctly, havoc DH

Top 3 in what? So, in EVERY single encounter in the game, at every percentile besides 99%, demon hunters are top 3... fascinating

[Holydush]

So Fire Mage jumps between 3rd/4th/5th spot in the charts besides 99% and all the classes above them (spriest,arms,mm,havoc) are getting nerfed? Guess it's gonna be Fire's turn to get nerfed by the next hotfix unless mage nerf insurance strikes again.

[Aggrophobic]

When you are playing the class for big dick FOTM numbers, not for the gameplay itself, sad story bro

I've never played one but being nerfed from among the top to the bottom like this is pretty harsh. It's also super silly as the class was pretty popular and they no doubt lost quite a few subs with this "fix".

[Deleted]

What??

Nice try troll. This is how its actually look like. Next time try to provide relevant information instead of nonsense, trash damage doesent matter.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

[Deleted]

Nice try troll. This is how its actually look like. Next time try to provide relevant information instead of nonsense, trash damage doesent matter.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

cenarius, il'gynoth and dragons of nightmare dont have relevant adds? except its actually revelant to the encounter.... but enough off this. you are really too salty for actual reasoning.

- - - Updated - - -

Top 3 in what? So, in EVERY single encounter in the game, at every percentile besides 99%, demon hunters are top 3... fascinating

So you want to be top 3 in EVERY single encounter in every raid tier? Sure....

[Schizoide]

Havoc single-target was strong, but not deserving nerfs.

Fel Mastery and particularly Bloodlet were way too strong, particularly when compared to the alternative talents on the same row.

If it was up to me, I would have cut damage to secondary targets on Throw Glaive and Fel Rush by 50% (same as DK Howling Blast), then gone ahead and nerf Fel Mastery and Bloodlet exactly the same way.

I would then buff Chaos Cleave (so it's worthwhile on single targets), Blind Fury (by increasing the number of ticks, not the duration, and allowing the player to move while channeling), Felblade (adding AE 50% damage to secondary targets), and First Blood (by adding a 20 Fury bonus on crit).

[Deleted]

Fel Mastery and particularly Bloodlet were way too strong, particularly when compared to the alternative talents on the same row.

Because other talents were mediocre or outright terrible.

From previous tiers you pretty much had 1 choice on each.
Fel mastery and prepared which both generate resources.

Then you have on 3rd tier felblade which is another generator which isnt rly necessary, first blood which is waste of global cd at st as chaos strike does same or very close dmg(and you got proc from trait on top of that) which leaves us with bloodlet which actually provided us with dps gain.

[Schizoide]

All that is true but actually Bloodlet was an extremely powerful talent in of itself. It simmed at >12% of total damage. For one talent.

[teddabear]

Your concept of OP is fkn hilarious considering we're within 5% damage of Outlaw, Fire, Arcane, Feral, Arms, Marks, Shadow and Windwalker across ALL BOSSES. Better? Sure. Apparently by 0.4% of the nearest spec. WHOOOOAAAAAA THAT'S INSANE!!!! OP!!!!!!

I agree we could have done with a reduction in our AOE (predominantly the burst aspect). But they barely even touched that and instead play with Throw Glaive. By your own admission you dont know shit about this class, what are you doing here arguing about this? But hey, let's ignore the fact that on single target fights, BEFORE THIS NERF, we were the ~12th ranked ST spec on Ursoc and complain about more because we dont know shit about the game!

Let me try.... NERF FROST MAGES!!!!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount


DH obviously OP in raids. #2 and #3 getting nerfed as well. However the Hunter nerf is minuscule.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&metric=dps


Again DH massively OP in Mythic+. Not sure why the monk was in here laughing. His time will come very soon.


No idea why Rogues are getting gigantic buffs. They were already good and have more utility than 4 or 5 other classes added together.

For the guy complaining about Frost DK buffs. Good god man they are horrible. They are about 60k behind DH. Show a little compassion. They are so far back I doubt even those buffs will get them much further than mid-pack.


FYI. Looking at damage from one fight is just about as irrelevant as you can get. Single target damage is also about the most useless ability in difficult raids. For those that don't know.

In approximate order, you could argue some of these should be 1 slot higher or lower.

1 AoE burst
2 Single target burst
3 Raid CDs
4 Personal CDs that can invalidate mechanics. (Think Rogue)
5 Single target damage


For the record I do have a DH as my first alt and I enjoy the hell out of him. Also Illidan is by far my favorite character in the entire Warcraft universe.

According to Twitter Blizzard is rethinking some of these DH nerfs and they will probably get tuned down a little.

If you use the DH discord Pawkets mathed out the proposed nerfs as 8% single target and 23% AoE. The post is pinned as well as the link that the nerfs are not final.


https://discordapp.com/channels/1178...42622907744258


https://mobile.twitter.com/WarcraftD...63116091838465

[Thiocyanide]

Nice try troll. This is how its actually look like. Next time try to provide relevant information instead of nonsense, trash damage doesent matter.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

Classic "linking this thing without understanding it."

The majority of combat logs are only actually tracking during boss fights and do not include trash leading up to the raid bosses. The metric you linked ignores all adds in the fights; i.e. shades of Taerar, Cenarius's adds, etc which are all JUST AS IMPORTANT as damage dealt to the boss itself.

The metric you're responding to as a troll includes all of those factors. Nobody is stupid enough to include the trash between fights in class balance.

[Ultramad]

Classic "linking this thing without understanding it."

The majority of combat logs are only actually tracking during boss fights and do not include trash leading up to the raid bosses. The metric you linked ignores all adds in the fights; i.e. shades of Taerar, Cenarius's adds, etc which are all JUST AS IMPORTANT as damage dealt to the boss itself.

The metric you're responding to as a troll includes all of those factors. Nobody is stupid enough to include the trash between fights in class balance.

This thread is a whole lot of people not knowing how to read logs. Glad you actually can help them understand.
If you think you need to set something to boss damage in order to see damage during an encounter, then you are mistaken. Thio has it correct in this thread.

[ztn]

seems it's you don't know how to read logs...

1. we discuss here 15% single target nerf. nobody cares about padding on ilgynoth blobs or elereth bugs...
2. for single target boss we have this reality - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...841&dataset=90
-warrior
-druid
-mage
-rogue
-shaman
-monk
-hunter
-paladin
-dh
-priest
-dk
-warlock

as everybody can see we was very very very low on single target... now every top classes not change at all or even buffed. bottom classes receive big buffs and we receive 15% single target nerf... it's clear that now we are at bottom with a large large gap from 2nd worst class... it's hard to understand for you that raids is all about single target and everybody can pad on blobs and it doesnt matter at all that hunter or mage can pad with 98% efficiency of dh because all other things that matters mage do with 150% efficiency... in reality we need 15-20% buff to single target to be competitive and now after this nerf we need 30-35% single target buff and even then every single raid prefer 3rd rogue then 1st dh...

[Thiocyanide]

I don't think you know what padding means. Padding is when you do damage to things that aren't killable to make your damage look better, i.e. the adds summoned at the end of the Kel'thuzad encounter. Damage to adds that have to die is not padding and is, in fact, crucial. Damage to boss is important to take into account, but is far from the only important metric and any raid leader that's not a moron will be smarter than to only look at Damage to Boss.

[Deleted]

I don't think you know what padding means. Padding is when you do damage to things that aren't killable to make your damage look better, i.e. the adds summoned at the end of the Kel'thuzad encounter. Damage to adds that have to die is not padding and is, in fact, crucial. Damage to boss is important to take into account, but is far from the only important metric and any raid leader that's not a moron will be smarter than to only look at Damage to Boss.

Bloods stay at 1 hp while exploding, continous AoE on them during this time = very much padding.

[kurtpal]

I had fun in the spotlight, I'll be honest I expected nerfs but we got hit with a sledge hammer shiiiit.
No point crying about it, not going to change anything, don't complain about no other specs, or maybe I have to re-roll bullshit
Man up, learn how to play the class flawlessly, learn the fights inside and out, ill still be in the top 5 in my guild every-fight, and if I'm not I'll try harder next time.

[Creatinebrah]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount


DH obviously OP in raids. #2 and #3 getting nerfed as well. However the Hunter nerf is minuscule.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&metric=dps


Again DH massively OP in Mythic+. Not sure why the monk was in here laughing. His time will come very soon.


No idea why Rogues are getting gigantic buffs. They were already good and have more utility than 4 or 5 other classes added together.

For the guy complaining about Frost DK buffs. Good god man they are horrible. They are about 60k behind DH. Show a little compassion. They are so far back I doubt even those buffs will get them much further than mid-pack.


FYI. Looking at damage from one fight is just about as irrelevant as you can get. Single target damage is also about the most useless ability in difficult raids. For those that don't know.

In approximate order, you could argue some of these should be 1 slot higher or lower.

1 AoE burst
2 Single target burst
3 Raid CDs
4 Personal CDs that can invalidate mechanics. (Think Rogue)
5 Single target damage


For the record I do have a DH as my first alt and I enjoy the hell out of him. Also Illidan is by far my favorite character in the entire Warcraft universe.

According to Twitter Blizzard is rethinking some of these DH nerfs and they will probably get tuned down a little.

If you use the DH discord Pawkets mathed out the proposed nerfs as 8% single target and 23% AoE. The post is pinned as well as the link that the nerfs are not final.


https://discordapp.com/channels/1178...42622907744258


https://mobile.twitter.com/WarcraftD...63116091838465

more salt than my gallbladder

i like how you selectively link only fucking keystone 2

currently, there's only a handful of specs that are topping charts in mythic+. hunters, DH, monks fire mages, and rogues. and between those classes, the charts are fairly even

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...dps&boss=11477

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...dps&boss=11466

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...dps&boss=11492

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...dps&boss=11493

[mitre27]

I don't really feel like i dominated honestly, if trash were gathered properly on certain fights i could burst to top by a decent margin, but my guild isn't that capable.

Also i don't use momentum so my AoE was already weak, if they wanted to nerf us, they should have nerfed momentums damage contribution to AoE skills (Excluding primary target)

Edit: Also if mythic+ were taken into consideration, they really need a giant slap to their faces seriously, it's a fucking dungeon which has almost always been about trash management, nerfing us based on them is stupid, if it must be done, nerf it specificially in mythic+ dungeons.

[Akachan]

And that is precisely what they used as a reason for nerfing us. Mythics raids arent even out yet so no data there. And using normal and heroic data from a raid thats not even a week old to tune classes is premature as hell so thats out. So what do they have? Mythic dungeons. They nerfed us because of how fast we clear trash packs.

[lol]

I don't play a Havoc DH but they were very strong. However, the nerfs listed by Blizzard in the hotfixes section coming this Tuesday is what I'd call an overreaction. I think some things will get revised by Tuesday that will hopefully cushion the nerfs a bit. With these changes they are making it so Havoc DH's will be below the middle of the pack.