People shot dead by police in the US in 2015

[Taneras]

On a side note, the ethnic distribution of the officers committing these unarmed killings does not reflect a distribution that might be predicted if systemic racism was a significant factor in police-civilian interactions:

Interesting statistics, is this listed in the Washington Post article linked in the OP? If not I must have skimmed over some of it.

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Yeah perspective, being a police officer is slightly more dangerous than being a lawn care expert.

Both of which are 4 times above the national average across all jobs. Perspective, right?

[Lime]

Fact be damned indeed.

It begs the question though. Why do media go out of their way to create a false narrative that could potentially lead to fractuing USA? Are there people behind the scenes who hope to cripple USA in some way and then take some form of advantage over it when it's vulnerable?

Because catering to these activist groups does far more for the media than stating the facts, unless they're specifically known for stating facts regardless of who it caters to.

Why state a fact and get targeted by these groups when you can just make up a stat that makes them look better and get all of their support? Sensible people would stop taking you seriously, but as we've seen, you don't need a sensible audience these days. Just state whatever caters to these groups and appreciate the blind support.

[NineSpine]

Yes, yes it does. Because of the amount of violent crimes black people commit, they come into contact with police more than their 13% population statistic would suggest.

That depends on the rates themselves.

I've already shown murder rates, 54% for the black community?

If you want to tell me that black communities will commit the most violent of crimes (murder) at such a high rate but draw the line at assault, armed robbery, and other forms of lesser violence you're going to need to back your claim up with statistics.

I don't need to prove that your statistics say something they don't, because if they don't say it then they don't say it. Murder rates are not violent crime rates, and crime rates are not rates of violence. Those are facts.

Even being generous and cutting the 54% in half for other violent crimes, you're still seeing blacks being way over represented in violent crimes.

Even if you showed that black committed an identical amount more violent crime as they as they get shot by police, that wouldn't establish a link.

Gonna need statistics on that. The one posted here does list the unarmed shootings, but doesn't do a break down by race.

http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/

If only you could back that up with statistics...

It's been proven, repeatedly, but you keep sticking your head in the sand.

I said that intuition suggests that those statistics would be skewed further against the black community. I never said how much of an effect it would have. Even if it only moves the bar one hundredth of a percent then my statement would be correct.

Your intuition means about as much to me as your left testicle does.

Just stop, its not the norm. Period. I get your point though, its not the most dangerous job and when I come across someone who thinks that it is I'll be sure to tell them that its just one of the most dangerous jobs just for you. I'm sure that somehow matters.

It's less dangerous than being a trucker, a roofer, a landscaper, or a farmer. The definition of outside the norm means that it is abnormal compared to common situations. Being a trucker or a farmer is not abnormal.

So truckers and police officers safety is more out of their own control than some of those other jobs. Maybe its a foreign concept to you, but some people like to have as much control over their own safety as possible.

Then they should do jobs that are very, very safe, not do jobs where they are going to kill innocent people because they are paranoid lunatics.

If one job consists of me eating potato chips and the other is swimming with sharks, and I have a higher likelihood of choking to death on one of those chips verses getting eaten by the shark, I'll still choose the chip job because I have more control over that. I'll be extra careful when swallowing. No matter how careful I am, my safety is out of my own hands when I'm nose to nose with a shark. Off the wall example, obviously, but it does highlight the point I'm making.

Good for you?

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On a side note, the ethnic distribution of the officers committing these unarmed killings does not reflect a distribution that might be predicted if systemic racism was a significant factor in police-civilian interactions:

You totally misunderstand what systemic racism is. It is not "White people in the system hate black people".

[anyaka21]

http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/

TBH, the graph doesn't really say much. It does kind of statistically mirror the overall kills in relation to population.

But just linking deaths, doesn't really say anything about arrest resistence, and add that just because someone isn't armed does not mean that they aren't a dangerous threat, on some form of hallucinogen that's making them crazy, etc...

And in before you say that it doesn't excuse killing someone, I don't disagree, but there basically only 100 or roughly speaking 2 per state, and as thus should be taken individually.


I kind of feel there is a little of each side continues to fuel the other. Black people feel they are targets, thus when they get pulled over, they are more likely to resist or get pissed off and do something they shouldn't. Police officers are therefore more on edge when around black people because they resist more, and they just continue to build off each other until their gets to be a breaking point. Which it seems we are pretty much at that point now.

[NineSpine]

TBH, the graph doesn't really say much. It does kind of statistically mirror the overall kills in relation to population.

But just linking deaths, doesn't really say anything about arrest resistence, and add that just because someone isn't armed does not mean that they aren't a dangerous threat, on some form of hallucinogen that's making them crazy, etc...

And in before you say that it doesn't excuse killing someone, I don't disagree, but there basically only 100 or roughly speaking 2 per state, and as thus should be taken individually.


I kind of feel there is a little of each side continues to fuel the other. Black people feel they are targets, thus when they get pulled over, they are more likely to resist or get pissed off and do something they shouldn't. Police officers are therefore more on edge when around black people because they resist more, and they just continue to build off each other until their gets to be a breaking point. Which it seems we are pretty much at that point now.

You aren't wrong, but the problem is that both sides of that equation are not equally capable or responsible for fixing the problem. One side has government authority, and is a specific institution that has the ability to set its own rules and guidelines. One side has the power to use violence, and the other does not.

[jakeic]

Both of which are 4 times above the national average across all jobs. Perspective, right?

yet most of the jobs with similar levels of lethality would be described as mundane and low skilled despite being 4 times over the average.

[Deathquoi]

your link is one incident....

so unless you have footage for a lot more, ill take this as an isolated incident.

You, however, based on your previous post, seemcto think this is what happens on every stop.

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source? ....

Here's a source.

[Taneras]

That depends on the rates themselves.

Well, so far its 1-0, as I've shown one rate that does show that blacks are so over represented with regards to the amount of murders committed here in America that it more than covers the differences we see in police shootings.

You, on the other hand, have typed a whole not and posted anything with regards to violent crime rates... And I think we both know why...

I don't need to prove that your statistics say something they don't

Yea, you actually do. You can't just assert that they don't mean what I'm claiming that they mean and that makes it correct. You need to demonstrate why.

Murder rates are not violent crime rates

How much different do you think the two would be? If you had a group of people with a super high murder rate, do you think that'd draw the line in such a way that they'd commit less armed robberies and assaults?

Fine, I'll hold your hand down common sense lane...

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...decoverviewpdf

Whites out number blacks by about 5:1.

Name me some violent crimes where whites out number backs by 5:1, or by more than 5:1.

Murder? Nope. Forcible rape? Nope. Aggravated Assault? Nope. Robbery? Nope. "Other assaults"? Nope. Weapons; carrying, posessing, etc.? Nope.

Please, educate me on this. Only one of the above crime rates are 3:1, the rest are 2:1 or 1:1. Police shoot more whites than blacks at a rate of 2:1.

and crime rates are not rates of violence.

No, and I've directly asked you to come up with a better metric. So far you've offered up nothing.

You seem very critical of my claims that BLM is incorrect in their assessment of blacks being over represented in police shootings. That's fine. How critical are you of theirs? What statistics have they shown, outside of just pointing to raw total numbers, that suggest that their claim is correct?

I'm doing all the legwork. It's time to start backing up your claims.

Even if you showed that black committed an identical amount more violent crime as they as they get shot by police, that wouldn't establish a link.

True, but its lightyears ahead of anything BLM has put forth.

http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/

This looks misleading.

Examples:

"An officer pursued Matthews, who was reportedly wanted on a misdemeanor warrant, authorities said. The officer attempted to subdue Matthews with pepper spray and shot him during a struggle when Matthews reached for his gun, police said. Family members identified Matthews after the shooting and said he was being treated for schizophrenia."

If true, its very misleading to label someone as unarmed if they're in the process of fighting an officer for his gun.

"A Hammond police officer killed Tiara, who was the mother of three of his children. The motive is suspected to be financial."

If true this is a domestic violence case where the perp just so happened to be a cop.

"was killed by Kansas City, MO police, who crashed their patrol car into the driver's side of her Pontiac Grand Am."

Was this a car chase? An accident? What?

"An officer crashed into Stephen's SUV while rushing to respond to a domestic call, killing him. He was 45 years old."

Traffic accident, better chalk that up to systematic racism.

"A San Diego Harbor officer claimed he confronted Ashford, 29, after seeing him "looking into cars" near Nimitz Boulevard. After being tased, police claim Ashford reached for the officer's gun before being shot and killed."

If true, its misleading to suggest they're unarmed when they're fighting a cop over a gun.

2 or 3 of the first 20 I read included a toy gun as well.

So about a 3rd of the first twenty cases involve domestic cases, traffic accidents, instances were its at least claimed that the person shot was fighting over a cops gun, and toy guns.

At least they're including the cases and details though.

It's been proven, repeatedly, but you keep sticking your head in the sand.

What amazing statistics have proven this?

It's less dangerous than being a trucker, a roofer, a landscaper, or a farmer. The definition of outside the norm means that it is abnormal compared to common situations. Being a trucker or a farmer is not abnormal.

Ok, I can see this is really important to you. I agree, being a cop isn't out of the norm with regards to getting fatally injured while on the job.

[NineSpine]

Well, so far its 1-0, as I've shown one rate that does show that blacks are so over represented with regards to the amount of murders committed here in America that it more than covers the differences we see in police shootings.

You, on the other hand, have typed a whole not and posted anything with regards to violent crime rates... And I think we both know why...



Yea, you actually do. You can't just assert that they don't mean what I'm claiming that they mean and that makes it correct. You need to demonstrate why.



How much different do you think the two would be? If you had a group of people with a super high murder rate, do you think that'd draw the line in such a way that they'd commit less armed robberies and assaults?

Fine, I'll hold your hand down common sense lane...

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...decoverviewpdf

Whites out number blacks by about 5:1.

Name me some violent crimes where whites out number backs by 5:1, or by more than 5:1.

Murder? Nope. Forcible rape? Nope. Aggravated Assault? Nope. Robbery? Nope. "Other assaults"? Nope. Weapons; carrying, posessing, etc.? Nope.

Please, educate me on this. Only one of the above crime rates are 3:1, the rest are 2:1 or 1:1. Police shoot more whites than blacks at a rate of 2:1.



No, and I've directly asked you to come up with a better metric. So far you've offered up nothing.

You seem very critical of my claims that BLM is incorrect in their assessment of blacks being over represented in police shootings. That's fine. How critical are you of theirs? What statistics have they shown, outside of just pointing to raw total numbers, that suggest that their claim is correct?

I'm doing all the legwork. It's time to start backing up your claims.



True, but its lightyears ahead of anything BLM has put forth.



This looks misleading.

Examples:

"An officer pursued Matthews, who was reportedly wanted on a misdemeanor warrant, authorities said. The officer attempted to subdue Matthews with pepper spray and shot him during a struggle when Matthews reached for his gun, police said. Family members identified Matthews after the shooting and said he was being treated for schizophrenia."

If true, its very misleading to label someone as unarmed if they're in the process of fighting an officer for his gun.

"A Hammond police officer killed Tiara, who was the mother of three of his children. The motive is suspected to be financial."

If true this is a domestic violence case where the perp just so happened to be a cop.

"was killed by Kansas City, MO police, who crashed their patrol car into the driver's side of her Pontiac Grand Am."

Was this a car chase? An accident? What?

"An officer crashed into Stephen's SUV while rushing to respond to a domestic call, killing him. He was 45 years old."

Traffic accident, better chalk that up to systematic racism.

"A San Diego Harbor officer claimed he confronted Ashford, 29, after seeing him "looking into cars" near Nimitz Boulevard. After being tased, police claim Ashford reached for the officer's gun before being shot and killed."

If true, its misleading to suggest they're unarmed when they're fighting a cop over a gun.

2 or 3 of the first 20 I read included a toy gun as well.

So about a 3rd of the first twenty cases involve domestic cases, traffic accidents, instances were its at least claimed that the person shot was fighting over a cops gun, and toy guns.

At least they're including the cases and details though.



What amazing statistics have proven this?



Ok, I can see this is really important to you. I agree, being a cop isn't out of the norm with regards to getting fatally injured while on the job.

Leaving now, so, to summarize: The entire justice system is tilted against black people, and we have ample statistics to show this, from the application of stop and frisk, to disparities in sentencing between white and black offenders with similar crimes. Denying this reality is either an act of ignorance or an act of cowardice. BLM exists within that reality. The argument is not "Even though everything else is fine, the rate of police homicides towards blacks is too high." This nonsense about violent crime rates ignores this. You are missing the forest for the trees. You are way too deep in the weeds, and you are either deliberately or mistakenly (I suspect mistakenly) misinterpreting the message of BLM. They are not arguing that less black men should be shot. They are arguing that the overall justice system is tilted against blacks, and this has perpetuated a system of injustice that has gutted their neighborhoods, making the crime and poverty worse. Expecting the black community to rise above this level of mistreatment and targeting is unrealistic and absurd. It is the job of the police and our government to not target and mistreat them, broadly. Again, the issue is not just whether there are too many police shootings, as in a bubble you can make a lot of arguments that that is overblown. However, life isn't a bubble, and this is about the entire justice system and its effects on black society.

[Asiwassaying]

Clearly we need more programs to protect white women from police killings. That is unacceptable.

-Main stream media

[anyaka21]

Here's a source.

bad source...

[Deathquoi]

bad source...

What makes it a bad source, the fact that it doesn't support your misguided worldview?

[Polyxo]

What makes it a bad source, the fact that it doesn't support your misguided worldview?

I think he means it's a bad link. Your link gives me a DNS error when I click it, even though I can find the actual article.

[Bildur]

I’m 46 years old and from Denmark. I might have missed a case or two but thinking back I can remember two cases of a person being killed by the police without launching at them with a deadly weapon in hand (knife or gun). And the amount of people getting killed by the police per year is countable on one hand. Just thought I’d throw that on the table. Yes I know Denmark is tiny compared to the US but it does make me think

[Deathquoi]

I think he means it's a bad link. Your link gives me a DNS error when I click it, even though I can find the actual article.

Lel, stupid MMO-C linking. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...an-renaissance

[Powerogue]

Come on women, we need you to do more crime! This gross inequality cannot stand!

[anyaka21]

What makes it a bad source, the fact that it doesn't support your misguided worldview?

or the simple fact that when i clicked it, it came back .....error...

[KrazyK923]

Fact be damned indeed.

It begs the question though. Why do media go out of their way to create a false narrative that could potentially lead to fractuing USA? Are there people behind the scenes who hope to cripple USA in some way and then take some form of advantage over it when it's vulnerable?

Because being a victim is very popular right now.

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That is a rate 10-100x higher, relative to population to population, than in any other West-European nation.

If we don't mind just a 100 unarmed people getting shot (often for no reason besides the cop being trigger happy), then why not also allow Death Penalty again or allow 1000 kids to get raped every year because it's just a small number? Just...

Oh, hey, also just a few hundred death because of school shootings. Not really a problem is it?

Your whataboutism is off the fucking charts.

[anyaka21]

Lel, stupid MMO-C linking. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...an-renaissance

but if you actually look into them, they really aren't white supremist. They are more separatists. Don't get me wrong here though, it's definitely racist. But there is a big difference between the two.

That said though, can you dismiss the facts out of hand? Are whites more intelligent tham blacks? Are asians more intelligent than whites? Probably true. I wouldn't say imherently true. But I think it speaks to how each culture/race values education and likely family.

[Themius]

but if you actually look into them, they really aren't white supremist. They are more separatists. Don't get me wrong here though, it's definitely racist. But there is a big difference between the two.

That said though, can you dismiss the facts out of hand? Are whites more intelligent tham blacks? Are asians more intelligent than whites? Probably true. I wouldn't say imherently true. But I think it speaks to how each culture/race values education and likely family.

Oh god that idea is just fuckign stupid. There are tons of dumbass Chinese people in China just becuase the ones who move here tend to be better educated doesn't mean all Chinese people are now smarter. Immigrants across the board tend to perform better than the native populace in MANY countries, it's becuase they generally move with a plan, or with a job, or for education.