Flag-stomping teacher has no regrets, wants student punished

[TrumpIsPresident]

It absolutely was. The only way it could perhaps be an issue is the burning, and only because of policies against open flames in schoolrooms. The same reason that he wouldn't be allowed to burn a piece of paper in a trash can. And that's only a maybe. That what he was burning was the American flag is completely secondary and irrelevant. If he'd destroyed it in some other non-fire-related way, it would've been totally fine. Putting it through a high-capacity shredder, that can handle fabric? Totally fine.

So I can make posts about Quran burning and ways to burn the Quran and put up videos of Qurans on fire and it would be absolutely ok and you cant infract me for that.

Except its not ok because this community set standards that say its not so I would get an infraction.

Just like that community, and that State, has set standards for saying what this radical did wasn't ok and thus he is subject to their criticism and punishment.

Taking the flag is;
A> disrespectful towards the teacher,
B> Disrupting the class and the lesson, and
C> Stealing the teacher's property.

So yes, absolutely grounds for suspension.

Thinking like that is how criminals who break into peoples homes get to sue the homeowner for tripping and falling while they're inside ...and win.

As for taking the photo, there's a whole wide range of school policies that could make that actionable, and posting it to defame the teacher is legally actionable as well, not to mention laws about posting people's image without their consent. For instance, posting it and claiming that he's unpatriotic, or a traitor, or unAmerican? Yeah, that's libel.

The only "indoctrination" going on is by people like you, who want to silence expressions protected under the First Amendment because you don't like the content.

That's for the lawyers to decided although the amount of political and lobbyist muscle it will take to get that heard in a court is pretty telling of just how real the indoctrination I mentioned (and you denied) exists.

As for the court of public opinion; We the decent folk of America hereby decree this man to be a Grade A Assclown both for not realizing he didn't need his extremest demonstration to make the point and for his butt-hurt retaliation against the student.

A good teacher would have found a better way to connect to students and teach this lesson.

I mentioned before that he could have used the man who got fined by the government for making a Reddit post as a perfect example of what freedom of speech is.

It would have related to that age group and there would have been no need to defile a flag just cause "reasons".

--

Side note has anybody come across his social media presence yet?

I wonder if hes got an opinion on the BLM hate group declaring the US Flag to be "racist" and then vandalizing a 9-11 memorial.

Could be a connection between that and this.

[May90]

I support flag burning and religious text burning until a time where flag/book burning doesn't make everyones panties get in a bunch anymore

Well, that's one way to look at it... But to make some kind of special statement, even a hateful one, I don't think one needs to resort to doing something that will definitely offend a lot of people: there are better ways to express one's opinion.

That said, people really should care a bit less about what others do with their property. If someone bought Quran in a store and decided to burn it on their backyard - by all means! It is their book, they can even use it to wipe their butt, for all I care. And even if they do it in a classroom with my child studying in it, and even if my child is a Muslim - I would try to teach the child to care less about things like this, rather than demand some kind of disciplinary action against the teacher.

That's true, im just puzzled, is America that authoritarian? Or is this some social experiment gone horribly wrong? I mean, in Europe there isn't such a thing as "anti-German" or "anti-Belgium", at least not in the way "anti-American" seems to be a bad thing.

Not authoritarian, just a bit overly traditionalist, I'd say.

[NineSpine]

Conservative campuses happily invite liberal speakers. The students will politely sit and listen in, even though they disagree. Go to a Liberal campus, and they will shout down any conservative who tries to speak, not letting them get a word in. That is if there weren't demonstrations to get them disinvited. Liberals hate hearing things they disagree with. Liberal college campuses are no longer about debate and freedom of speech. they are about shutting yourselves into a bubble, and screaming loudly so that you can't hear anything that you might disagree with.

BYU explicitly bans speakers that contradict church doctrine. It's in their speaker guidelines.

[Kellhound]

Safe spaces? No. They don't really exist in Canada at all, and I've said they're a silly system quite a few times. If speech is "bad", it's best to speak against it, not hide yourself from it.



You're using the terms incorrectly, or something. Challenging a student's preconceptions and pushing their boundaries isn't "disrespect", at all. Meanwhile, challenging a teacher's authority and disrupting their lesson is disrespect.

Your location is "Bank of the Columbia". Am I correct in presuming Washington State, then?

Here's their State's code of ethics for teachers; http://www.k12.wa.us/ProfPractices/CodeConduct.aspx

There's nothing in there that would make this teacher's lesson actionable.

Performing an act you are very well aware will very likely insult students when there is no need to do so is very disrespectful to those students who are not there by choice. If it was college it is totally different.

[Dr Assbandit]

In my first post I allowed for the fact that there might be some behavior on the part of the student that I am unaware of. I made my judgement based on what has been reported so far. You on the other hand determined his intent was malicious despite having no more information than I. I think that speaks far more to your bias than mine.

Please tell me what possible intent someone could have when they not only recorded the instructor but then posted it online as well along with taking it to the principal. If he was truly being patriotic, the kid could have just taken the flag and that would have been the end of it. Instead, pictures can obviously be seen from the article, gee I wonder how they found their way online, clearly it was the student trying to show social media how good the lesson was.

You're more than welcome to consider me biased but that's nothing but an attempt to deflect. It doesn't take a genius to deduce his reasoning unless you're naive or just don't want to believe it because it doesn't align with your personal bias.

[tehealadin]

Another thread that shows no one cares about free speech when its someone they dont like.

This is always the case. Freedom of expression is fine, so long as we agree with it. Else it becomes problematic and must be curbed.

[NineSpine]

What makes it a right is the government not being able to say you cannot do it, but it can say if you do X we will no longer be associated with you as an employer.

You can keep saying that, but this is settled case law already. The government can only reprimand you for using protected rights if your job explicitly involves public security and safety and your actions violate that.

[Wells]

Liberals hate hearing things they disagree with.

This board is so god damn ridiculous some times.

[ranzino]

What makes it a right is the government not being able to say you cannot do it, but it can say if you do X we will no longer be associated with you as an employer.

no, they still cannot. government has to take it and be silent.

[Kellhound]

What does that have to do with the point?

Public vs Private, College vs grade school.

[Elim Garak]

MEANWHILE

[Wells]

Public vs Private, College vs grade school.

The discussion was regarding various political leanings' proclivities for control of students. None of those differences are relevant to that point.

[Kellhound]

You can react however you want within the bounds of the law. Punishing someone for exercising their speech via the government though is not within those bounds.

Terminating employment isnt prohibited.

[ranzino]

MEANWHILE

what is on the left ?

[TrumpIsPresident]

It's only a thing if you area far-right nationalist cuck.

Yea all these people ruining around trying to change every aspect of the country, saying everything from street-signs to hula girls to yellow crate paper is racist, thinking pop-tarts and fingers are weapons, wanting to segregate college dorms, burning down city blocks each time a criminal gets put down, demanding people get fired for wearing costumes on halloween, taking down American flags and raising BLM hate group and Mexican flags in their place, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, every single batshit act in the past 8 years...

...those people love America.

Uh huh.

[Kellhound]

Like telling people who they can marry? No, that's Republicans. Like expanding the prison state and imprisoning people for using drugs on their own bodies? No, that's Republicans. Like advocating banning a religious group from entering the country? No, that's Republicans.

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No, actually they can't. This is a complex issue, but government firing people for participating in Constitutional rights is generally not allowed.

When it causes issues with your job function, they absolutely can.

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If your actions impede your ability to do your job, sure. Political speech won't meet that line easily.

I would say the teacher acted in a way that will impede his ability to do his job in the future.

[Zecora]

It's even more entertaining, when they've somehow managed to convince themselves that they don't do the same thing

The awesomeness rating is through the roof!

[Wells]

I would say the teacher acted in a way that will impede his ability to do his job in the future.

Takes some serious gymnastics to claim that stepping on a flag means he won't be able to teach.

[chazus]

There's three aspects to this, as I see it.

1) It was a classroom, so it was either public property, or private (and not his) property. While flag desecration is legal, damaging someone else's property is not.
2) It was a classroom, and he is an employee, and so there are certain expectations. A teacher is not there to teach kids whatever they want. They have a curriculum and organization ethos to uphold. You can add character to lessons, you can voice your opinion as long as it's clear it's your opinion... But if you go crazy and do crazy things, remember you're an employee, and the business has the right to change that if it decides.
3) It's a freakin classroom! in formative ages and times, one has to keep in mind that doing crazy things is not always as bright as it seems. Have some mental moderation.

TLDR: He broke the law/system and got the boot. Nothing much else.

[Kellhound]

You can keep saying that, but this is settled case law already. The government can only reprimand you for using protected rights if your job explicitly involves public security and safety and your actions violate that.

Or if you are exercising them while performing an official function and it is impacting said function.