Democratic Election 2016 - Hillary Clinton Megathread [OFFICIAL]

**Orbitus** · 2016-09-25, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Soulslaver

Look at her feet. You are nothing but conveniently ignorant/intellectually dishonest at this point.

Again, your confirmation bias is showing. You ASSUME she fainted when there is nothing to show that she did. She was dizzy, yes. But to say that she fainted outright because she was being basically dragged into the van, is nothing short of asinine. And you would think that if she fainted, she would have went to the HOSPITAL instead of her daughter's apartment.

**Cthulhu 2020** · 2016-09-25, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Soulslaver

Look at her feet. You are nothing but conveniently ignorant/intellectually dishonest at this point.

Pneumonia can fuck you up pretty bad.

I mean... seriously, have you ever worked while sick? I have several times, and I've fainted from it too. As a healthy 20-something male. My body was exhausted and a bit dehydrated.

And the most telling thing is, these symptoms are very recent. If she had parkinsons or some kind of seizure disorder, there'd be a lot more videos out there of her fainting and shaking. As it is, all of this diagnosing of deadly diseases just lets us know who the desperate gullible partisan idiots are.

**Orbitus** · 2016-09-25, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by The Batman

Pneumonia can fuck you up pretty bad.

I mean... seriously, have you ever worked while sick? I have several times, and I've fainted from it too. As a healthy 20-something male. My body was exhausted and a bit dehydrated.

And the most telling thing is, these symptoms are very recent. If she had parkinsons or some kind of seizure disorder, there'd be a lot more videos out there of her fainting and shaking. As it is, all of this diagnosing of deadly diseases just lets us know who the desperate gullible partisan idiots are.

Don't worry, they will look through the older videos and any random head bob or spasm will definitely confirm that she has parkinsons. It isn't their confirmation bias in action, definitely not.

**Daerio** · 2016-09-25, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Orbitus

Don't worry, they will look through the older videos and any random head bob or spasm will definitely confirm that she has parkinsons. It isn't their confirmation bias in action, definitely not.

You are habitually mis-informed.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/11/politi...linton-health/

and in 2012.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/us/us-...on-concussion/

Linking CNN might be bannable as a conspiracy theory, though!

**Cthulhu 2020** · 2016-09-25, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Daerio

You are habitually mis-informed.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/11/politi...linton-health/

and in 2012.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/us/us-...on-concussion/

Linking CNN might be bannable as a conspiracy theory, though!

Not sure what this is supposed to prove exactly. Yeah, she caught pneumonia and it's taking a toll on her. Ok?

Tons of Trumples are claiming she has AIDS-PARKINSONS-SEIZURE-DEATHITIS.

**Daerio** · 2016-09-25, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by The Batman

Not sure what this is supposed to prove exactly. Yeah, she caught pneumonia and it's taking a toll on her. Ok?

Tons of Trumples are claiming she has AIDS-PARKINSONS-SEIZURE-DEATHITIS.

I mean, it's supposed to prove she fainted, because even her campaign is admitting she fainted, but the Hilbots don't accept that.

**Cthulhu 2020** · 2016-09-25, 01:26 AM

It seems that the Clinton campaign has taken Trump to task on one thing: Manufacturing in America. Trump talks sweet nothings to disgruntled middle class white Americans, promising to kick mexicans out and bring their jobs back...

But who believes in actions speaking louder than words? I certainly do. Not only has Trump used cheap and illegal migrant labor in the past, but he's also claimed that stuff like his clothing line just simply can't be made in America, and that there's no manufacturing companies willing to do it. It's just impossible in America!

Well of course we know Trump lies, but then it must be a day ending in Y.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/...-donald-trump/

Despite his repeated claim and desire to put “America First,” time and time again Donald Trump has told us he has to manufacture his products abroad. He says “it’s very hard to have apparel made in this country,” or that “they don’t even make the stuff here. It’s so hard to get.” No, Donald. Just no.

Don't worry though guys, Trump is totally going to bring the jobs back!

(In before claims of bias, because the Clinton campaign is totally lying about these places existing. Despite, you know, them being easy to google.)

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Daerio

I mean, it's supposed to prove she fainted, because even her campaign is admitting she fainted, but the Hilbots don't accept that.

Yeah, and it was pointed out that it was from dehydration/exhaustion.

I can see why some might be resistant though, considering the Trumples take it 10 steps too far and claim that she's dying or has some terminal/deadly disease.

**Breccia** · 2016-09-25, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by Dystemper

Who is defending Trump this way? MOst everyone i have seen have said they know he has many faults, but Clintons heavily outweigh his.

Ok then, let's try it another way.

Hiring Paul Manafort.
Hiring Carter Page.
Hiring Roger Ailes.
He won't release his taxes and won't even say why not.
Won't disclose his foreign assets.
Has ties to the mafia.
Six bankrupcties.
A trail of failed businesses.
Being sued by local, state, and federal governments, losing dozens of times, settling hundreds.
Literally caught cheating on his taxes.
Cheated on his wife.
Routinely lies to his staff and legal team.
Extensive history of demonstrable racism.
Extensive history of demonstrable sexism.
Endorses torture.
Endorses killing civilians.
Endorses stop-and-frisk which has been found unconstittuional several times.
Tax plan has no choice but to add trillions in debt (also see below)
The Wall.
Wants to intentionally break a trade deal with China.
The Muslim ban. Just because he walked it back to countries that happen to be mostly Muslim changes nothing about the fact he presented it as a good idea in the first place.
Is using his campaign funds to pay his businesses and increased the rent he charged himself by 500%.
Cannot get the support of large chunks of his party or any US President still alive, plus arguably some of the dead ones.
Wants to leave NATO.
Wants to break the Paris Accord.
Was in favor of Brexit.
Openly brags about paying-for-play.
Is an anti-vaxxer in public.
Says global warming is a Chinese hoax.
Claimed he is 6'3" in his medical file rather than the 6'2" like everyone else says that would put his BMI at "obese", and doesn't exercise.

Trump has one qualification to run for President, being a businessman, as he has never held public office and never gone to law school. He has a long string of histories of failing, history of going bankrupt, at falling apart so horribly he's taken to court, and loses. He also demonstrates a dysfunctional knowledge of major categories of information, including the federal law, international law, international treaties we signed, the US budget, international trade (remember, he's a businessman), and science. He lied to his wife, he lied to his doctor, and he lied to his lawyers, he lies to his investors, and he lies about his investors. All while siphoning money from his campaign in a legal but incredibly skeezy way, accusing Clinton (incorrectly) of the bribery he prides himself in engaging in, insulting women and minorities openly, and could very easily be working directly for Russia. And he has damaged the support he will get from his own party and from literally every continent on the planet including literally the ice on Antartica itself.

But I'm not even close to done. Trump says things that are not true on an enormous list of topics.

South Korea doesn't pay the US for protection. False.
ISIS built a hotel. False.
Our nukes don't even work. Then why were you asking if we could use them asshole?
Pro-life is declining. False.
"Art of the Deal" is the best selling business book of Nothing.
Jeb Bush's Florida has sanctuary cities. False.
US is the highest taxed nation in the world. False.
Only the US has birthright citizenship. False. Specifically wrong about Mexico not having it.
Syrian refugees aren't mostly women and children False.
CIA warned Bush 9/11 was about to happen. False.
His tax plan would not increase the deficit. Mathematically impossible even with his new model.
9/11 hijacker families fled the US. False.
The Mexican government can pay for the wall with the trade defecit. That's not how trade defecits work.
Trump U had a BBB A-rating. False.
His knowledge of slander, libel, and the First Amendment.
Common Core is managed at the federal level. False.
Everything he said about the Iran Nuclear deal.
Noncitizens can vote. False.
Refugees aren't vetted. Yes they are.
His statements about Benghazi.
JHis statements about the Clinton Foundation.
Clinton wants to abolish the Second Amendment. False.
Saw a video of money being handed to Iran. Later admitted he lied.
Clinton is giving instant work visas. False.
Clinton wants to overtax farms. False.

Obama never went to Harvard. Pants on Fire.
The Kuwait government never paid us. Pants on Fire.
GDP is never below zero. Pants on Fire.
30 million illegal immigrants, Pants on Fire
Central and South America export criminals to the US. Don't forget the rapists! Pants on Fire.
42% unemployment. Pants on Fire.
China crafted the TPP for their benefit. Pants on Fire.
Refugees sent to Red states. Pants on Fire.
Watching thousands cheer in NJ on 9/11. Pants on Fire.
Blacks kill 81% of whites. Pants on Fire plus FUCK YOU levels of hypocrisy based on his statements about NC.
Obama taking in 250,000 refugees. Pants on Fire.
Mexicans swarming over the border. Wrong Fucking Continent Asshole.
Woman made up story about being assaulted by one of his staff. You fired him dipshit.
Clinton doesn't poll well with women. Pants on Fire.
Ted Cruz's father helped kill JFK. Spineless soulless weasel still endorsed him.
Nonsensible jumble about allowing tens of thousands of terrorists into the country.
Clinton wants to release violent criminals from jail. Pants on Fire.
Violent crime is rising. Pants on Fire.
Obama and/or Clinton founded ISIS. Pants on Fire.
Refugees cost more than fixing every inner city. Off by two orders of magnitude.
We don't know Clinton's religion. Yes we do and Obama's still not a Muslim.
The Dems are trying to set the debate schedule and/or moderator to rig them. Pants on Fire.
Clinton wants to raise taxes on the middle class. Pants on Fire.
Clinton has no immigration plan. Pants on Fire.
Clinton has no child care plan. She wrote a paper about it in 1973.
The birther controversy. Five years of unrelenting bullshit capped by a False and a Pants on Fire.
Ever ever ever. Pants on Fire.

For added fun, the bolded entries are things he's been called out for lying about, and then lied about them again after time had passed, even though what he said was proven factually false already.

Bonus Round: "I never said that" claims easily debunked with his own words:
One.
Two.
Three.
Four.
Five. This one's the Iraq war.
Six.

Trump shows a diverse list of things he either didn't know about but talked about them as if they were fact anyhow, or did know about but blatantly lied anyhow. He lies, again, about national law, international law, international trade, his opponents in the GOP, his Democratic opponents, and the President. And he made a lot of shit up about Clinton, even including things that the investigations and hearings -- the ones that came up with nothing -- said were blatantly untrue. And, he even lies about saying things he said on live TV.

And I even left some things out of this list. You probably can name five without Googling.

Donald Trump's election history is a maelstrom of evidence that he either doesn't know, or doesn't care, about way too many things to be President. His lack of knowledge, ability, temperment and experience are already a matter of public opinion and borders on objective when he denies provable facts, and he's engaging in the same level of deceit and lack of transparency he's been accusing Clinton with from day one.

If you think Clinton's faults "heavily" outweigh all of this, I have got to hear how.

**Masark** · 2016-09-25, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Breccia

If you think Clinton's faults "heavily" outweigh all of this, I have got to hear how.

In the minds of the Goldshirts, her flaws of being a woman and a Democrat outweigh all of it.

**Orbitus** · 2016-09-25, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Breccia

-Polite Snip-

Damn Breccia, can I link to this for my signature so EVERYONE gets the idea?

**hrugner** · 2016-09-25, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by The Batman

Pneumonia can fuck you up pretty bad.

I mean... seriously, have you ever worked while sick? I have several times, and I've fainted from it too. As a healthy 20-something male. My body was exhausted and a bit dehydrated.

And the most telling thing is, these symptoms are very recent. If she had parkinsons or some kind of seizure disorder, there'd be a lot more videos out there of her fainting and shaking. As it is, all of this diagnosing of deadly diseases just lets us know who the desperate gullible partisan idiots are.

Parkinson's can be very well controlled through drugs, particularly if it's caught early. It's by no means immediately crippling or obvious. Also, it's not something that should change how people vote, though it would. Someone with Parkinson's could easily handle the presidency unless they are unlucky enough to suffer the more mental symptoms.

What's weird to me is that the attacks on her didn't move on to something supported by her already released medical information. It seems like it would be a more effective slander to claim she had a Myxedema Coma due to ineffective outdated thyroid medications. It certainly gets you a comatose and coughing old lady, she has a bum thyroid, she was sick, old, and female making it more likely, and it's far more life threatening. People need to step up their conspiracy theory game in my opinion. Or they have good reason to believe it's Parkinson's.

As for anecdotes. I have more than my fair share of health issues while healthy, and I've worked while sick. I've never fainted or passed out without alcohol being involved though.

**May90** · 2016-09-25, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Breccia

Snippy snip

It is also funny how, when you ask someone to clarify which Clinton's faults they mean, all they can say is, "Meeeh, she is a disgusting human being, a liar, etc.", without any details. I mean, I can come up with quite a few reasons to criticize Clinton... But in the eyes of many it seems like she is bad because she is bad, and that's about it. *shrugs*

**belfpala** · 2016-09-25, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by May90

It is also funny how, when you ask someone to clarify which Clinton's faults they mean, all they can say is, "Meeeh, she is a disgusting human being, a liar, etc.", without any details. I mean, I can come up with quite a few reasons to criticize Clinton... But in the eyes of many it seems like she is bad because she is bad, and that's about it. *shrugs*

My GF usually ends an "argument" with something like, "Ok, fine, you're always right." And I respond with, "Yes, I'm always right when I'm right and I'm also wrong when I'm wrong. So show me how I'm wrong, specifically."

That actually makes her more angry...

Anyway, it's easy to paint someone with generalizations. More difficult to come up with specifics as Breccia very thoroughly did.

**Breccia** · 2016-09-25, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by belfpala

Anyway, it's easy to paint someone with generalizations. More difficult to come up with specifics as Breccia very thoroughly did.

You think finding a list of things Trump did that make him unqualified for office was difficult? I know you're agreeing with me but damn, that list practically wrote itself. I literally spent more time in editing it than getting the info.

**belfpala** · 2016-09-25, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Breccia

You think finding a list of things Trump did that make him unqualified for office was difficult? I know you're agreeing with me but damn, that list practically wrote itself. I literally spent more time in editing it than getting the info.

Word. All I see from the other camp is something like, "blah blah Benghazi! blah blah emails! blah blah maybe some shady business transactions over 20 years ago!"

I appreciate your dedication to editing that post.

**Cthulhu 2020** · 2016-09-25, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by hrugner

Parkinson's can be very well controlled through drugs, particularly if it's caught early. It's by no means immediately crippling or obvious. Also, it's not something that should change how people vote, though it would. Someone with Parkinson's could easily handle the presidency unless they are unlucky enough to suffer the more mental symptoms.

What's weird to me is that the attacks on her didn't move on to something supported by her already released medical information. It seems like it would be a more effective slander to claim she had a Myxedema Coma due to ineffective outdated thyroid medications. It certainly gets you a comatose and coughing old lady, she has a bum thyroid, she was sick, old, and female making it more likely, and it's far more life threatening. People need to step up their conspiracy theory game in my opinion. Or they have good reason to believe it's Parkinson's.

As for anecdotes. I have more than my fair share of health issues while healthy, and I've worked while sick. I've never fainted or passed out without alcohol being involved though.

Thing is, I live with someone who has parkinsons, I've gone with them to groups where other people. Parkinsons doesn't manifest itself into very sudden episodes of shaking for a few seconds then they're just ok. That's not parkinsons. It's constant, steady shaking, and it can be certain parts of the body or the whole body. The medications either decrease the intensity of the shaking, or if their symptoms are still early and mild, it can get rid of it, but again, they don't suddenly re-manifest as sudden bouts of shaking and are suddenly fine.

It's why I have a good laugh every time someone says she has parkinsons from a couple of episodes of shaking for two seconds.

**Daerio** · 2016-09-25, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by The Batman

Thing is, I live with someone who has parkinsons, I've gone with them to groups where other people. Parkinsons doesn't manifest itself into very sudden episodes of shaking for a few seconds then they're just ok. That's not parkinsons. It's constant, steady shaking, and it can be certain parts of the body or the whole body. The medications either decrease the intensity of the shaking, or if their symptoms are still early and mild, it can get rid of it, but again, they don't suddenly re-manifest as sudden bouts of shaking and are suddenly fine.

It's why I have a good laugh every time someone says she has parkinsons from a couple of episodes of shaking for two seconds.

Pretty sure this is based on emails released where she's asking for someone to get her Parkinson's medication, which may be to treat a condition other than Parkinson's.

We've seen her collapse in public multiple times. We've seen her have petite grand mal seizures in public during interviews when reporters suddenly started yelling loudly at her which is a known trigger for seizures. We've seen her have a mild focal seizure in public during a speech after the crowd started cheering loudly when her handler rushes to the stage to grab her and pulled her out of it while it was still in the early stages, and told her to "just keep talking" and you can hear her reset her speech after she snaps out of it. We've seen her have coughing fits for years that go on beyond anything normal, and you can see her popping lozenges of some kind in some of the videos, almost certainly for the dry mouth. (all these videos have already been linked in the thread)

Dry mouth is a common symptom of seizure medications, (it was the biggest complaint my uncle always had about his seizure medication) and it's likely that's where her coughing fits are coming from. It may even be possible she was inquiring about Parkinson's medication as an alternative to whatever she's taking that's making her unable to speak now that the investigations are over.

Additionally, I haven't seen any videos of Clinton "shaking" in the way someone with Parkinson's does. I don't think Parkinson's is a realistic possibility, but her asking for Parkinson's medication is.

Then again, you can have Parkinson's without the tremors... or they haven't properly differentiated Parkinson's from some other forms of brain damage.

Atypical Parkinsonism should be considered particularly in patients with:

Poor response to dopamine
Early loss of balance
Prominent intellectual changes (dementia)
Rapid onset or progression
Conspicuous postural hypotension, urinary and bowel incontinence
Little or no tremor.

**hrugner** · 2016-09-25, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by The Batman

Thing is, I live with someone who has parkinsons, I've gone with them to groups where other people. Parkinsons doesn't manifest itself into very sudden episodes of shaking for a few seconds then they're just ok. That's not parkinsons. It's constant, steady shaking, and it can be certain parts of the body or the whole body. The medications either decrease the intensity of the shaking, or if their symptoms are still early and mild, it can get rid of it, but again, they don't suddenly re-manifest as sudden bouts of shaking and are suddenly fine.

It's why I have a good laugh every time someone says she has parkinsons from a couple of episodes of shaking for two seconds.

Without the medications, or when they stop, you can get a sudden strong bout of symptoms depending on the medication. But she's really pretty old for Parkinson's to be well controlled like this, so I agree it's probably not Parkinson's. The people you see in groups would be those who aren't adjusting well or need assistance, many people have it for years and don't notice it other than stiffness in their joints, occasional disorientation, or occasionally repeating actions. Most people think it's just their body getting older and don't seek treatment.

My family has a history of it among the ladies, who all take great care to engage in the sorts of activities that work to slow its progress, so I get a little annoyed when people treat Parkinson's as something that's always huge debilitating and uncontrollable. I have, or had rather, a granny in law who had it and didn't notice till her body was weakened by an accident and she could no longer do the sorts of things that delay symptoms. I also studied it a bit in school as part of a larger project regarding involuntary action, sociopathy, and the inception of intent(it didn't go anywhere, inception of intent proved too broad).

I'm sort of curious about the person you live with, but I think we're so far off topic that I shouldn't push my luck.

**Lenonis** · 2016-09-25, 06:24 PM

The health issue is played out. Any gains that you'd have gotten are done and they will erode assuming that Hillary has public appearances and a solid debate performance where it will be obvious she's not dying.

But keep pounding that health drum -- it'll fill up the room with noise that won't actually earn you points, which is fine with me! Keep ignore her legitimate issues -- it'll be fun to see another GOP campaign melt down on election day.

**Breccia** · 2016-09-25, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Daerio

Pretty sure this is based on emails released where she's asking for someone to get her Parkinson's medication, which may be to treat a condition other than Parkinson's.

So, was it Parkinson's medication or not? I'll answer that: it's not.

The medication, called Provigil, wasn't for Parkinson's. It was for sleepiness, and is somtimes used for people with Parkinson's, but is also used by people with MS, people with finals next week, and people who drive trucks. It is not Parkinson's medication.

https://www.drugs.com/provigil.html

The manufacturer's website, http://www.provigil.com/, does not use the term "Parkinson's" even once.

This and other useful information that can swat down conspiracy theories can be found on Snopes who cites their sources.

Also it was one email, not "emails", but I think I made my point.

EDIT: You know what? No, I'm not done with this bullshit.

Here is the ONE email you're vaguely referring to without citing.

In it, the email says

"In the U.S. military, modafinil [ED: yes, that's the ingredient of the brand name Provigil] has been approved for use on certain Air Force missions. The French, British, and Indian militaries have all expressed interest in modafinil."

Holy shit, Clinton is an Air Force Pilot!

But no, read the email you mentioned offhand but clearly never read. Who actually appears interested, and for what reason?

I SAID READ IT. For once in this thread, show some goddam initiative and actually investigate the claims you're making. READ IT!

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Thread: Democratic Election 2016 - Hillary Clinton Megathread [OFFICIAL]

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