Arms Legion Discussion

[Rorke]

Im going to be doing what ive always been doing, ignoring FR. Now I just have to drop trauma and OS for DC + AM. FoB is also like 15k behind now. so rip that.

My favorite non FR build is MC/SS/Fevor/OS/DC. I like it for dungeons.

[globezorz]

DC is stronger after the ETW nerf.

But what says that? Where's the evidence?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

arms isn't even close to the bottom its still in the top ten lol, what a baby.

The problem is that EVERYTHING that Arms Warrior was with FR was ST and 2 target cleave with Sweeping Strikes.
3+ cleave is just about the worst in the game.
Sustained AoE is just about the worst in the game.

Feral druids are STRONG for ST and that's fine because they're not very strong in other areas, Arms Warrior was fine with that as well (maybe they could increase the Mastery rating we needed per %) for the same reason: we suck in other parts.

Also, there's no alternative to playing FR Arms, literally any other build is garbage tier and the nerf to EtW trait also nerfs those potential builds.

and to add one final thing...
When Colossus Smash resets and you have 3 FR stacks up it feels super rewarding and like it's WORKING like it should. Now you'll have 3 FR stacks and wait for longer to use them or just use them without CS window which feels WRONG. In other words the EtW nerf is reducing fun, not just damage.


Just go and look at the first week of raiding in Emerald Nightmare, Arms is so far from being OP- so far it shouldn't even be a topic... All the "NERF ARMS" cries are from MORONS in 5 mans where Arms blow up things that lives for 43 seconds... (just like any other good spec)

I mean go and look right now at logs.
Arms Warrior and Fire Mage were neck and neck on "overall" encounters.
Arms gets nerfed, not damage being redistributed to allow other talent builds. NO! just plain out performance nerf.
Fire Mage goes untouched?

To make it worse:
- As a melee dps you have to fight for 4-6 raid spots. As a ranged you have to fight for 9-11 raid spots- a lot easier to get inn.
- As a melee dps you have to fight against 12 other melee dps specs. As a ranged you have to fight against 9 other specs.


Hunters that were overall really strong ONLY suffered a nerf to Barrage, a padding tool for mass AoE...
Demon Hunters got shot to fucking pieces... and are pretty much bottom atm.

Meanwhile most ranged gets buffed, heavily.
This just once again shows that ranged are favored across the board...

[Tatsujin]

Yep. I hate to be the "waah I quit" guy, but I'm honestly completely demoralized. Logging in to realize the spec I rolled is just going to become the same old boring WoD auto attack spec, and I invested all this time and artifact power into it. I think I'm done for now, will check in for 7.1 if anything changes.

You know what we have to do .... suck it up and do our best to be 'useful' until our tier sets come up.

I wonder what Arch has to say about the nerfs and if there is any changes to the stat priority. It just feels like Crit/Mastery is going to be the dominate stats (hence the bonuses on our tier set).

[Deleted]

The problem is that EVERYTHING that Arms Warrior was with FR was ST and 2 target cleave with Sweeping Strikes.
3+ cleave is just about the worst in the game.
Sustained AoE is just about the worst in the game.

Feral druids are STRONG for ST and that's fine because they're not very strong in other areas, Arms Warrior was fine with that as well (maybe they could increase the Mastery rating we needed per %) for the same reason: we suck in other parts.

Also, there's no alternative to playing FR Arms, literally any other build is garbage tier and the nerf to EtW trait also nerfs those potential builds.

and to add one final thing...
When Colossus Smash resets and you have 3 FR stacks up it feels super rewarding and like it's WORKING like it should. Now you'll have 3 FR stacks and wait for longer to use them or just use them without CS window which feels WRONG. In other words the EtW nerf is reducing fun, not just damage.


Just go and look at the first week of raiding in Emerald Nightmare, Arms is so far from being OP- so far it shouldn't even be a topic... All the "NERF ARMS" cries are from MORONS in 5 mans where Arms blow up things that lives for 43 seconds... (just like any other good spec)

I mean go and look right now at logs.
Arms Warrior and Fire Mage were neck and neck on "overall" encounters.
Arms gets nerfed, not damage being redistributed to allow other talent builds. NO! just plain out performance nerf.
Fire Mage goes untouched?

To make it worse:
- As a melee dps you have to fight for 4-6 raid spots. As a ranged you have to fight for 9-11 raid spots- a lot easier to get inn.
- As a melee dps you have to fight against 12 other melee dps specs. As a ranged you have to fight against 9 other specs.


Hunters that were overall really strong ONLY suffered a nerf to Barrage, a padding tool for mass AoE...
Demon Hunters got shot to fucking pieces... and are pretty much bottom atm.

Meanwhile most ranged gets buffed, heavily.
This just once again shows that ranged are favored across the board...

btw hunters got a stealth buff, that their artifact weapon skill is working with mastery now (that means an 3-4% increase). Good thing I got a good equipped hunter onto that I can reroll if next week shows me that warrior is being destroyed.

[Anuibus]

But what says that? Where's the evidence?

This is with all of them set to heroic charge for rage. Which is a 16k dps gain for FR. Apparently. I'll start a different one without that action.


No heroic leaping out to charge back in

[Warpanda]

I can not wait.

[Anuibus]

I can not wait.

Pretty sure FR doesn't count as being active since its off the gcd.

[Mamut]

I have one question and I dont wanna make thread for this.

Should I use Colossus Smash on cd even if the debuff is still on the target or only when its about to expire?

[Warpanda]

Pretty sure FR doesn't count as being active since its off the gcd.

Makes sense. I don't recall what the previous stats were for waiting. I hope that is the case.

[mateusdowow]

I have one question and I dont wanna make thread for this.

Should I use Colossus Smash on cd even if the debuff is still on the target or only when its about to expire?

Reapply it whenever you spend the SD buff.

[Qoma]

Waiting patiently for Archi or Sarri to weigh in on these changes, personally.

[PenguinJim]

Waiting patiently for Archi or Sarri to weigh in on these changes, personally.

Look at Archi's twitter. He is very sad

[Creatinebrah]

Look at Archi's twitter. He is very sad

looks like a lot of whining

[Deleted]

looks like a lot of whining

I don't think trying to sugarcoat shit on twitter will do any good at all. They completely dropped the ball, the changes to both prot and arms playstyles only goes to show how little they actually understand about their own game. Number balancing is called for, nobody is arguing that, but making the gameplay of both specs clunkier for no reason is just mind-boggling. I don't think anyone expected them to address any mechanical issues such as Fury's execute design or unbalanced legendaries, but to actually make some mechanics EVEN WORSE than they were previously understandably made people upset

[Khelon]

These nerfs really feels like you shouldnt be using focused rage as the only filler outside of battlecry.

Slam does more damage per rage (not counting the SD debuff), can be used along with FR and has a lot higher chance to proc tactician than FR. Theres a couple minmaxing things you could do before this nerf (like trying to spend as much rage as possible if battlecry was coming up even if it mean you used slam or ww along with FR when cs and ms wasnt available). Now it feels like spamming both FR and slam is the way to go because you rather get the proc fast and maintain the CS debuff as your tactician proc rather than letting it fall off and then have it proc again with a 3x FR stack.

This allows for more heroic charge/walking out and charge back in for more rage gen aswell, previously I barely had to do this with 2 ETW and 1 precise strike relic.

[Anbokr]

looks like a lot of whining

Whining is the only way you get heard in this game, look at warlocks (and mages everytime they aren't top3). We waited weeks for our best spec to get sent into mediocrity, RNG hell, and stripped of fun. And in return we got a nice solid 3% buff to a fury spec that takes 30% more damage than everyone else, has artifact traits that never proc, and has a third clunky ass artifact trait that can't actually be adequately maintained.

Warriors, to me, are probably in the one of the worst state both mechanically and numerically that they've been in in a loooong time come Tuesday.

[Jalopy]

Whining is the only way you get heard in this game, look at warlocks (and mages everytime they aren't top3).

This. WOD and Legion beta showed perfectly well that asking nicely will not get you what you want, despite what Blizzard will ever say to the contrary. Archi and Collision (at least in WOD) posted metric tons of very well constructed feed back and none of it was taken into account.

Archi is one or two steps off becoming me, a jaded, angry man who yells at devs.

[Valkaneer]

looks like a lot of whining

Why be a jerk? No reason for that.

On another note there is a lot of reason Prot needed to be dealt with Sloot's video showing Prot basically invincible if there is enough damage to eat through your IP fast enough to give you near endless rage and keep spamming IP was insane, but... What they did to prot did nothing to fix it. Worse is we told them this would happen, now we are rage starved in World content and gods in raids as Prot.

https://www.twitch.tv/slootbag/v/90896283 Go to 6:28:30 for the crazy if you're interested


With arms why make a spec more clunky and nerf all possible Arms builds? It is painfully clear to most players that half understand Arms that the synergy between FR, Shattered Defenses, DC is the problem. Also that there is nearly no synergy at all between Mortal Combo, IFTK, and Shattered Defenses. Making FR always the default choice.

They could have nerfed FR to 25% and left EW alone and a LOT more people would of been happy. Or dealing with Shattered Defenses and FR synergy? How about actually buffing the talents that needed it?

Though Blizzard should of known better than to allow 3 stacks of the same Relic on a weapon. That had POWDER KEG written all over it.

[Anbokr]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...838465?lang=en

Note: tuning hotfixes aren't final. We're still discussing the changes, especially to Havoc/Shadow, and following constructive discussions.

This shit pisses me off so much. Need to get out there on twitter boys. They legit only listen to whining, considering reverting shadow/havoc changes but no mention of Arms.