Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[Kazlehoff]

so with the changes, what are we looking for on our relics now instead of Throw Glaive?

[Not Againnn]

critical chaos

[Dvorjak]

So, never ever use Throw Glaive on a single target fight?

[therayeffect]

I kind of wish there was a way to see what numbers each spec pulls with 34 points in their artifact weapon (The max number of non-bonus damage points) while including the upcoming balance changes. I'm so bummed at the huge nerf and rotation change that I'd like to see what classes are good that I could possibly reroll to. So far for my guild, it only looks like Warlock and maybe mage are open. I'm curious what DH dps will be after we get Inner Demon.

[Flaryon]

I want to do some content as Havoc coming from a Vengeance who geared all crit / mastery. Literally sitting with 2% haste, is there any talent / build setup that will be more optimal with my gear setup? Do have chronoshard trinket 2 set and memonto though.

[Mefistophelis]

So, I spent some time, but I learned how to change spell data, so I put the hotfix changes into my Simulationcraft and indeed the ST drop is about 9%.
I then spent some time doing talent sims and ended up with Felblade as the best talent on the 102 row.

Below is the scaling plot for crit/haste/mastery/vers for the following talents: Fel Mastery/Demon Blades/Felblade/-/Momentum/Demon Reborn/Fel Barrage.
I chose Demon Blades over Prepared mostly because the differnce isn't big and I seem to be unable to perform Prepared at the max level, also use Fel Barrage for all purposes. My unbuffed stats: Crit=11778, Haste=1783, Vers=3045, Mastery=1374. I could make more of those scaling plots for all the other setups but it takes long for my slow pc, so here's what i had for my own post-nerf setup.

[Krolja]

Pls no. Demon Blades makes my soul hurt.

[Mefistophelis]

in the discord channel it turns out that going

1213131 has yielded a 11k dps INCREASE for ST compared to what it currently is
It also turns out, to my very big surprise that haste is turning into our worst stat and mastery is in 3rd now. But things are not set in stone yet and still need more testing.

The problem with stat scales in simc, is that it only sims for the next +500 of each stat, which isn't much. That's why low error scaling plots is better to see the tendency of a stat beyond one item change.

Also for me 1213131 is 3k below 1113131 on my "hotfixed" simc.

[Deix-EU]

You can't arrive now and say "HEY DUDE IT'S A DPS INCREASE !" while it wasn't before. Other talents are not changed where our main DPS source goes to 40~% nerf. It can't simply be a DPS increase whereas it wasn't before, it's not logic. If you play 1213131 right now, it is what it will be after the nerf and it does (without legendary) less than prepared still. But effectively, it's with my tests in M+ a 50k DPS loss in pure ST.

I played 1213131 first then 1113131 and I did a bit more DPS with second one before I was told changes are not "hotfix" actually. Until then, my mated joked on me because I was very low in DPS. Then I switched to the bloodlet again and I was first. It's just that reality that will face us soon, until Felblade changes.

[Mefistophelis]

Deix-EU you can't possibly compare M+ fights for prepared and DB, mostly because of the fight length.

[Deleted]

Note: tuning hotfixes aren't final. We're still discussing the changes, especially to Havoc/Shadow, and following constructive discussions.

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...63116091838465 (Source)

There is hope still

[Rawkfist]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...63116091838465 (Source)

There is hope still

*crosses fingers*

[Adoxe]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...63116091838465 (Source)

There is hope still

Oh, thank god. Please don't be dumb Blizzard.

[Deix-EU]

Deix-EU you can't possibly compare M+ fights for prepared and DB, mostly because of the fight length.

True, but that's a reality to consider also. Facts are facts. According the situation DB is just better indeed but it is already stated that both talents are merely equal as a whole. However, this is not the subject in fact. The real subject is the powerhouse of Bloodlet VS way behind talent like felblade whose the design is clearly aimed at ST. Since we're already king in AoE I always found speccing towards AoE wouldn't help us more.

[Mefistophelis]

Agreed, falling back from Bloodlet to Felblade is a drop in dps, hopefully they will buff ST to compensate the AOE nerf that hurt ST.

[Ryxxi]

From twitter: https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...63116091838465
Note: tuning hotfixes aren't final. We're still discussing the changes, especially to Havoc/Shadow, and following constructive discussions

[Deleted]

How come the ursoc trinket is so good? Just the amount of agility? Haste proc seems mediocre

[Donovan4893]

So I know this isnt about the tuning changes but I have a question I got this meh trinket at 865 Giant Ornamental Pearl and I cant tell if its better then what I have through just shear ilvl since when I sim my self with it I don't see simcraft actually using its active anywhere and is only simming it off of its versatility so it puts it as a dps loss to equip. The trinket I have now is Memento of Angerboda at 850, pretty sure my other trinket is better then it as its an 860 pure agi/haste(why you no roll crit or vers QQ ) world quest trinket.

[Mamut]

What food is best for havoc? The crit one or something different like chance for damage?

[Deleted]

@Vanyali Is there any situation where we want to go bloodlet (cenarius cleaving drake/ancient, Dragons of nightmare cleave, Il'gynoth, high botanist in nighthold) or has it been nerfed that bad its just not worth it unless 100% uptime on 3/2 targets?