Vengeance DH and the 25% more damage taken from players.

[Deleted]

It's sad that blizzard went with "remove tanks from pvp" mentality again, just after they made a promise to balance pvp and pve separately AND added pvp talents for tanks and stuff.

Tanks were already weak in pvp, speaking from guardian perspetive. I didn't provide more stuns/cc than average carry and couldn't solo people as well(self heals are really fucking strong in legion).
My main "strength" was AoE dps with was useless in BGs where people are spread out and "tankiness" with only helps dragging fights out when defending nodes(with I still could lose to SAPnCAP if my trinket was on cd).


Nerf them more, eh?

[ShiyoKozuki]

average carry

What does this even mean

[Pucek]

What does this even mean

He most likely meant average DPS spec.

[Strawberry]

I'm never again doing BGs and arenas since Blizzard is making everyone equal.
Sick of tired of equality in the world. Let me blow up badly geared players if I have far superior gear. And let other people blow me up if I have shit gear. It gives me motivation to progress.
This modern bullshit and kids whining is annoying as fuck. Let tanks be tanks if they want to.

The problem with this game is majority of players are DPSers. And if a DPS can't blow up a tank in a stun then it's not cool hence massive whining from a large community. But a measily DPS is not supposed to kill a tank that easily.
Blizzard doesn't care about class balance. They care about their income. That's the reason this game still exist. Because it's profitable. Do they profit from making a large community unhappy? Nope. Not a chance.

[Deleted]

Healers doing 90% of a DPS damage while being unkillable, haven't seen that one yet.

They're called disc priest and used to be called heart of the wild. Next?

[Challenge]

It's funny because 90% of the players commenting tanks should never be viable haven't broken 2k in any season and are unable to form a coherent reason other than just because lol xDDdd hurr durr

Tanks in pvp need to be damn near DPS dealers in instances. Survivabilty should be tame with respectable output. Blizzard hasn't found the balance yet. Not to say it can't be done though.

[Deleted]

Tanks really shouldn't be just beefy dps.
Plate DPS should be the beefy dps. Mail somewhere inbetween, Leather squishy but high damage.
Tanks should fill the support role with disruption and guarding the squishier classes.

For all its failings, WAR did it pretty well.

[Adolecent]

Tanks shouldn't be playable in PvP, so that's fine.

Thats seems to be contradictory to the Legion "one main & one spec filosophy".

[Budong]

If the guys at Bioware can make tanks viable in pvp for SWTOR I have a hard time understanding why the devs at Blizzard cannot for WoW. In SWTOR tanks don't do as much damage but they are TANKS. They are harder to kill but not as hard as healers. Their taunts also reduce the damage their targets do against the tanks teammates. They can also place 'guard' on another player that redirects damage to the tank. They play an important support role.

[ShiyoKozuki]

If the guys at Bioware can make tanks viable in pvp for SWTOR I have a hard time understanding why the devs at Blizzard cannot for WoW. In SWTOR tanks don't do as much damage but they are TANKS. They are harder to kill but not as hard as healers. Their taunts also reduce the damage their targets do against the tanks teammates. They can also place 'guard' on another player that redirects damage to the tank. They play an important support role.

Guard literally ruined that games pvp

[Esty]

Guard literally ruined that games pvp

Not really.
Just meant you had to swap targets, or burn the target down through Guard. Guard didn't stop focus fire.
Now if we could get something going with how Bioware did their taunts and AOE taunts...

[NaNaaru]

To all the "tanks should not have place in pvp" - I play veng DH, PVE mostly but I DO love casual pvp... I am gaining real life playing xp every-time I am playing my tank, not to mention the highlight of legion- AP... why shouldn't I be able to use it in PvP?

[Deleted]

Eh what? 150 yard traveled in 2 sec is not worth it? I carry flag in high rated RBG as vengeance, along with demonic trample. Vengeance is THE flag carrier.

dont get me wrong but I find it lacking when a whole spec is designed around one specific ability in order to only perform that very ability while suck at everything else.

[Budong]

Guard literally ruined that games pvp

Blanket unsubstantiated hyperbole. I've rarely heard anyone complain about Guard in game. Simply not true.

To all the "tanks should not have place in pvp" - I play veng DH, PVE mostly but I DO love casual pvp... I am gaining real life playing xp every-time I am playing my tank, not to mention the highlight of legion- AP... why shouldn't I be able to use it in PvP?

You should be able to. I've never understood the argument that tanks shouldn't have a place in pvp. Dps and healers do, why not tanks? As mentioned before, tanks can play a support role. If other devs can do it with no problem in other games there's no reason why it can't be done in WoW other than developer laziness. Blizzard is good at copying other dev's ideas, why they refuse to copy this one and others (much better transmog options in other games) I'll probably never know.

[NaNaaru]

dont get me wrong but I find it lacking when a whole spec is designed around one specific ability in order to only perform that very ability while suck at everything else.

this

I feel useless if it is not capture the flag BG (veng here)- rouge can stun-kill me

[Deleted]

How about tanks stick to dragon slaying and we stop trying to make them "viable" at the expense of everyone else's enjoyment of pvp?



+1

Yet people who main PvE over PvP get constant nerfs to abilities because they're "op" in PvP. Stop fucking with our enjoyment?

[Deleted]

Thanks, Daish. That's helpful - I thought the wardens' towers were feeling a little more challenging, lately.

[Flaks]

The entire concept of tanks in PvP, fighting is braindead and destructive, I'm glad Blizzard is taking steps to remove them, and/or make them unviable.

I'd go so far as to say that healers aren't any better. They've made pvp ridiculously unfun in every aspect.

[Ashgaan]

Guard literally ruined that games pvp

Last time i played SWTOR, the PvP was quite good and way more tactical then WoW, and i only play PvP in that game as the PvE endgame is not so good.

Please keep in mind that in that game you have:

- tanks with guard and taunt (Guard - guards a player transferring 50% dmg to you 15 meter range / Taunt - enemy player does 30% less dmg for 6 second if not attacking you)
- multiple classes that can push/pull targets, with bigger range on them and fewer bugs
- 3D PvP maps, and a lot of them (including BGs), in combination with pont 1 this is very nice, also traps on some of them ( stun,throw, pulls someone in it, or slow him and watch him burn )
- better PvP balance ( sure some specs are on top every patch but in the past 3 years they did not have so big discrepancies as in wow)
- all 3 roles are viabile and used
- better DR system on CC : all CC share the same DR bar, with certain CC filling the bar faster (like stuns), once the bar is full you are immune to ALL cc for some seconds. Overlapping CC is very very bad in SWTOR, i can get a full bar in 1 second if ppl throw blindly their CC at me
- gear choice, you can choose your gear in PvP and the secondary stats / Legion problem. For example you can make your tank very very hard to kill or you can make him a dps monster (usually AoE). But tanks of all colors have superior control tools, most of the time your role as a tank is to guard your healer and control the battlefield while being a pain in the ass for the opposite healer. Btw i just described a mediocre tank, a good tank will guard swap, do damage, control de DD and interrupt the enemy healer, at the same time.
- from the above you might think that tanks are immortal, they aren't, some specs melt them like butter - depending on the type of dmg you deal ( elemental, force etc ) certain tanks are more susceptible to certain dmg types.
- few self heal abilities, especially on DDs
- few escape mechanism for all classes (rogue echivalents is still annoying though) but also CC is not flying everywhere
- better catch-up mechanism for PvP, you get something like the old resilience, people said is bad in WoW, it's because they fucked it up badly. The template is actually worse than that. ( if you are shit geared you will get the full amount of PvP resilience in instanced PvP - you will miss set bonus and some stats, but trust me at the end of season 1 in legion fresh PvP toons will be miles behind, especially due to the honor system and the artifact system ) - there are some rules to what to gear but one quick 5 minutes google search will tell what to gear and when to change to the PvP gear you farmed
- and many more points some good some bad, but overall i feel they have better PvP. If only WoW could borrow some things. Also .. LIGHTSABERS man ....

Also please consider the role you want to have. Let's take for example the rough warrior equivalent - Jedi Knight/Sith warrior ( won't get into subclasses that much) I can spec for burst single target dmg or sustain dmg. I can't expect to kill a good healer on my sustain spec, but i can put so much pressure if ppl are stacked that he will fall behind and will flop quite fast. And considering the fact that he needs to stack up with the tank, having dots on both of them will drop their HP quite fast. Meanwhile on the burst spec i can push (guard from tank has very small range compared with the range of the push), leap to him, while he is down do some dmg then stun do some more dmg slow execute. If the tank is not paying attention his healer is dead. ( yes sorc.sage healers are OP with their bubble and teleport - at least they can't do this while bubbled)

It really depends what you want really, KBs or glory kills(where you really have to work hard for your kill). Also if you are complaining that healers don't die while you have your pocket healers, then you're being a hypocrite. Games with no healers usually end up with ppl spending a a lot of time socializing near the spirit healer then running back to the fight only to see gray screen again shortly after, or huge zerg balls /sarcasm on so much fun /sarcasm off (personal opinion).


TLR ;
SWTOR PvP is better from mechanical and balance PoV, but it lacks maps ( although the ones you have are more fun )
If you like to tank and PvP ... definitely play SWTOR
Yes i like SWTOR for PvP and story more than WoW, but the game is lacking in other areas - hence i'm playing WoW now.

[AetherMcLoud]

Yeah pretty much. Sorry if you like tanking but they are fucking so cancerous in PVP.

The problem with tank PVP is that Blizzard seems adamant to make their only trait in pvp "more self survivability for less damage" which is just the wrong direction.

Just look at SWTOR (which plays like WoW with Star Wars skins basically): For all the flaws that game has, it has GREAT tank mechanics in PVP.

In SWTOR, Taunting players makes them do 30% less damage to everyone besides you for a few seconds. On top of that all tanks get a pvp skill called guard or something, which is basically like old warrior vengeance, a single buff you can keep up on an ally (and move around without cd) that redirects like 20% or 30% of their damage taken to you instead.

That makes tanks actually do tanking stuff in pvp (protecting other players), while also not making them too tanky themselves.