Vengeance Mastery Discussion Post-Nerf

[Henriksson]

My versa>mastery>haste dream died a little bit

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Just leveled my V-DH as my first alt, and invested in mastery gear. :P
Needless to say, wishing I had focused more on Versatility now.
Oh well, he's still fun to play and mastery won't be worthless... But if Mastery and Versatility were close before, then clearly Versa is the way to go now.

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Ever since the multiplier it was common sense that this withhold get nerfed. The only people that will really feel it are those who stacked stupid amounts of mastery. I have the math in the discords and if it's what i think the change is, then most will see a very minor nerf. Stacking mastery like that was a bad call you made. Don't blame blizz for your mistake.

Not sure what your reasoning is here. Of course people stacked Mastery while it was OP. Were we supposed to stack the inferior stat... just because? Blizz agreed it was really good which is why they nerfed it. So now we'll stack the current best stat. If Blizz later nerfs Versatility, are you going to say people were dumb for stacking Versatility?

[Tech614]

Not sure what your reasoning is here. Of course people stacked Mastery while it was OP. Were we supposed to stack the inferior stat... just because? Blizz agreed it was really good which is why they nerfed it. So now we'll stack the current best stat. If Blizz later nerfs Versatility, are you going to say people were dumb for stacking Versatility?

He was the guy giving bad stat weights and just seems happy that versatility is back ahead. Mastery post buff was stupid strong, so strong nothing else competed with it. If you weren't stacking mastery before the nerf you where doing it wrong. Apparently you shouldn't blame blizzard for stacking your best stat. /shrug

Mastery will still be alright though, just not stupid over powered to the point you can reach 80% DS before nighthold even comes out.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

He was the guy giving bad stat weights and just seems happy that versatility is back ahead. Mastery post buff was stupid strong, so strong nothing else competed with it. If you weren't stacking mastery before the nerf you where doing it wrong. Apparently you shouldn't blame blizzard for stacking your best stat. /shrug

Mastery will still be alright though, just not stupid over powered to the point you can reach 80% DS before nighthold even comes out.

My crafted gear is mostly Harmonious: Mastery & Versatility. What are your thoughts? Is it worth swapping it out, or just let it ride since I'll be replacing it with raid drops (hopefully) anyway?

[Tech614]

My crafted gear is mostly Harmonious: Mastery & Versatility. What are your thoughts? Is it worth swapping it out, or just let it ride since I'll be replacing it with raid drops (hopefully) anyway?

Vers/Haste gear doesn't even exist for the most part in EN so even if they both end up stronger then mastery you can't turn down ilvl upgrades just for the sake of stats. I would say just stick with them, you'll be fine.

[ethanfel]

Ever since the multiplier it was common sense that this withhold get nerfed. The only people that will really feel it are those who stacked stupid amounts of mastery. I have the math in the discords and if it's what i think the change is, then most will see a very minor nerf. Stacking mastery like that was a bad call you made. Don't blame blizz for your mistake.

Yeah because we all play with the math that's not visible ingame.. Mastery was obviously a good stats and i know a lot of dh v who don't theorycraft that have spend a lot of times tuning their gear for high mastery, some even because of yourguide they found on icy etc.

Stacking Mastery was efficient, they changed it overnight, the week of m+ and raid launch when many already spend a lot of hours gearing. Blizz is to blame, as always for changing everything without any notice.

[Deleted]

The problem with feed the demon is you need to already be into Painbringer, have to take Blade Turning for the synergy which loses a great oh shit button and without Soul Rending Last Resort is borderline worthless so you lose another oh shit ability. Fracture is also better synergy with Painbringer then feed the demon but it has very much the same problems as above.

The combination of Soul Rending+Last Resort along with Fel Devastation is too strong, and will remain too strong unless the class gets a massive rework to be less about healing up spike damage.

Soul Rending+Last Resort is awesome for mythic+, agreed. But it really isn't that good for raiding (meaning you can drop soul rending). Bosses like Xavius melee for up to 1.2mio on heroic if you got nothing up; what you need is sustain and not high burst hps for a short amount of time. on fights with tank swaps you can easily achieve 100% DS uptime while you have the boss, and ~60% when solo tanking. if you subtract the boss doing casts and fine tuning in terms of always activating DS right before the next swing, it gets even higher while you can bridge the gaps in-between with FB/meta/trinkets. in terms of *just* melee dmg taken, DH is fine. it's magic damage that destroys you (like the xavius tank debuff. that shit stacks up to 5-6 times before you can tank swap in P2, which equals to over 800k dmg/second) and that is really hard to cope with since you have a) low max hp as compared to other tanks and b) FB doesn't help.

[Tech614]

Soul Rending+Last Resort is awesome for mythic+, agreed. But it really isn't that good for raiding (meaning you can drop soul rending). Bosses like Xavius melee for up to 1.2mio on heroic if you got nothing up; what you need is sustain and not high burst hps for a short amount of time. on fights with tank swaps you can easily achieve 100% DS uptime while you have the boss, and ~60% when solo tanking. if you subtract the boss doing casts and fine tuning in terms of always activating DS right before the next swing, it gets even higher while you can bridge the gaps in-between with FB/meta/trinkets. in terms of *just* melee dmg taken, DH is fine. it's magic damage that destroys you (like the xavius tank debuff. that shit stacks up to 5-6 times before you can tank swap in P2, which equals to over 800k dmg/second) and that is really hard to cope with since you have a) low max hp as compared to other tanks and b) FB doesn't help.

Already cleared heroic and tanked Xavius and my opinion on Soul Rending doesn't change based on raids. In fact for progression raiding oh shit buttons are better then sustained DR, always have been and always will be. Shit's gonna happen, things aren't always going to be perfect and that wipe you saved because you had Soul Rending could be the one you down Mythic Xavius on.

Yes we get hit hard without DS up, but feed the demon is not necessary in raids in the least IMO. Not that I'm knocking anyone for using it, just my perspective. The play style of the class to me is to take damage, pop DS and heal yourself back up while DS is active. Rinse repeat. Max up time on DS isn't an interesting play style, and it generally leads to more self over healing in my experience.

[Deleted]

Already cleared heroic and tanked Xavius and my opinion on Soul Rending doesn't change based on raids. In fact for progression raiding oh shit buttons are better then sustained DR, always have been and always will be. Shit's gonna happen, things aren't always going to be perfect and that wipe you saved because you had Soul Rending could be the one you down Mythic Xavius on.

Yes we get hit hard without DS up, but feed the demon is not necessary in raids in the least IMO. Not that I'm knocking anyone for using it, just my perspective. The play style of the class to me is to take damage, pop DS and heal yourself back up while DS is active. Rinse repeat. Max up time on DS isn't an interesting play style, and it generally leads to more self over healing in my experience.

well we were doing split raids with partially under-geared healers, so that just happened to be the best option in that particular situation. You really only need feed the demon in situations where healers can't keep up (the only boss in question on mythic would be xavius as you have to tank swap on cenarius anyway on mythic). welp, in nighthold we won't have to worry about these kind of things since we'll be having 100% DS uptime with the set-boni anyway.