Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Azortharion]

They tried to fix it but the fix they applied didn't work, so it's just waiting time.

[Zamochy]

I just noticed that Dire Frenzy on Icy Veins and on the WoW Talent Calculator says it gives 30% attack speed, but in game it says 42%. Was this buff announced anywhere? Could this possibly make Dire Frenzy more viable since it's more focus and also has synergy with Beast Cleave?

[BendakWoW]

I just noticed that Dire Frenzy on Icy Veins and on the WoW Talent Calculator says it gives 30% attack speed, but in game it says 42%. Was this buff announced anywhere? Could this possibly make Dire Frenzy more viable since it's more focus and also has synergy with Beast Cleave?

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=215779/beast-master

[Zamochy]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=215779/beast-master

Ah, okay. Forgot there was a Dire Beast trait.

[Deleted]

anyone knows the uptime of the traitor's oath mini set? would be kinda helpful

[Effinhunter]

anyone knows the uptime of the traitor's oath mini set? would be kinda helpful

Here's what Traitor's Oath's uptime is in Simcraft.


I only have the wrist part of the set so far, so I can't test it in game.

[Puupi]

Does the flanking strike buff put survival stat priority to haste > crit > rest? And the newest sim in simulationcraft is still showing flanking strike every 10-11s instead of using it on cooldown at like 4-5 secs.

[Effinhunter]

So, updated Simcraft includes the Windburst buff. Here's what I'm seeing DPE and slight rotation change wise.

MM single target, 450s +/- 20%, 50k iterations, Simcraft Source

DPE


Small APL changes (just use Windburst on CD now, as Azor is recommending)


Going to rerun the MM talent sims.

[Ledgerino]

For MM: Which trinkets for a single target fight like Ursoc HC:

chrono shard 840 (no set), Horn 840, oakhearts 840, Egg of Serp 845, Tirathons Betrayal 850, Spiked Tonue 845

I tried Egg of Serp but it seems to be so poop. Don't know why it sims so high

[Effinhunter]

@Ledgerino The Chrono Shard's RPPM is a bit too low (1 RPPM) for it to be all that useful, even if you have the set. Spiked Tongue has been used to good effect by many hunters, but you have to keep in mind the ranged component, and if you are going to use it, make sure you are snagging a distance to target weak aura (or making your own), so you stay at 20+ yards as much as possible in fights. Tirathon's is not very good in sims, and oakheart is reasonably good. Out of the 6 you mentioned, it seems like you should be wearing oakhearts and spiked tongue, but only if you can stay 20+ yards. If not, maybe oakheart and egg of serp. You would probably get better mileage out of a Darkmoon Deck upgraded to 8 or Six-Feather Fan at 840+, but if you don't have the gold, those are your options.

- - - Updated - - -

MM Top Talent Combinations, Single Target, 450s +/- 20%, 10k iterations, Simcraft Source


The Windburst change is a significant buff in sims right now. ~20k increase across the board in 1-2 targets. It's only in 3 targets that the Barrage nerf starts to hit, but I need to play with the APL a bit before I really comment more on that.

[Jayeazy]

Maybe I missed something but I'm still not seeing this Crows > Barrage

with default apl

Was there some apl discovery that made it better or a deficiency in simc that causes this? AMR sim shows crows hitting harder than simc also and has crows>barrage.

edit
Nevermind, slightly different stats on the default profiles probably make up the Crows difference but Barrage is significantly lower in AMR. Simming my character has gives 54k in simc vs 36k in AMR for non-crits, then 115k vs 76k for crits, and my Ursoc log seems more in the middle of the two.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=120361

Also doesn't help that the amr apl is hilariously bad and giving me 30k under simc and what I pulled in game, but to me the rotation editor feels too terrible to bother with if that's really all it is. Though both are still giving me unbuffed Marked Shots which rustles my jimmies a little bit, gonna fix those damn apls someday...

[Effinhunter]

I haven't seen MM crows beating barrage, even after nerf. I was saying BM crows is very strong though.

[Jayeazy]

I haven't seen MM crows beating barrage, even after nerf. I was saying BM crows is very strong though.

Yea sorry your sims just before that post are what I'm seeing, was going to summon @Azortharion since he changed IV to recommend Crows on ST after the Barrage nerf and I don't see where it's coming from.

[Azortharion]

When I ran the sims prenerf, weeks ago, they were essentially equal, so it seemed logical that it wouldn't be the case anymore. Definitely needs a rerun, because I am not sure what could make the difference.

[Deleted]

For MM: Which trinkets for a single target fight like Ursoc HC:

chrono shard 840 (no set), Horn 840, oakhearts 840, Egg of Serp 845, Tirathons Betrayal 850, Spiked Tonue 845

I tried Egg of Serp but it seems to be so poop. Don't know why it sims so high

Egg of Serp is like the biggest RNG trinket I've ever played with

During one Mythic boss it procs 4 times at the same time and thus 4 mini-serpents shooting at the target, which is awesome. Then one mythic boss later, it won't even proc once in 2-3 minutes. It doesn't really sim so high though.

[Jayeazy]

Yea even between the MM Crows buff and the recent Barrage nerf I was never able to get Crows ahead. Even if the two were made equal on their own, the synergy between Barrage and Bullseye would still be too good.

edit
So actually looks like simc gave Barrage an extra 20% instead of -20%. That would explain it.
https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...3a6e45f1336ab4
Checking with them on github.

Napkin mathing that out looks like Barrage will actually fall under Crows by like 5k on ST when fixed. Time to start buying tomes...

[BendakWoW]

What are you guys seeing for uptime on Bloodthirsty Instinct? On EN bosses mine seems to always be in the 30-40% range, but in simulation craft it shows 62% uptime. I'm wondering if this one got nerfed whenever Twisting Winds did.

[Zoopercat]

Barrage is significantly lower in AMR.

We have the upcoming barrage nerf live on AMR, looks like SimC didn't put that in yet, but likely will soon.

Also doesn't help that the amr apl is hilariously bad and giving me 30k under simc and what I pulled in game.

It's doing nearly identical spell choices and usage as SimC. Both rotations are doing the same thing, down to the spell selection and avg dmg on abilities. Not sure what made you think they weren't?

We did find a bug where mastery wasn't affecting windburst. That is updated now.

Other than that, when you factor in the barrage nerf, both simulators damage matches when you setup the sims the same. If you want help looking over your setups, post a link to both and I'll take a look. For example, make sure you have potions and flasks set correctly on AMR. Also, since we don't have the augment runes in the sim right now, remove that line in SimC for a fair comparison.

[Deleted]

Any more conclusive word on whether Barrage or Crows will be the single target choice after the patch?

[Jayeazy]

Not sure what made you think they weren't?

To be fair I have issues with both apls, like non-Vuln Marked Shots, but one thing I noticed quickly was amr refreshing Hunter's Mark without casting Marked Shot sometimes, which I don't see in simc. That said, my own APL is at like 5k over even default simc, so all apls could use work, but I'm trying to finish that.

Any more conclusive word on whether Barrage or Crows will be the single target choice after the patch?

Barrage should fall like 5k below Crows.