Why do people conflate racism with wanting efficient immigration policies?

[Nitro Fun]

See this happen over and over. People conflating efficient immigration policies with racism.

They do not want to admit that some people are performing much better than some other groups and when you suggest taking the higher performing people, some people call it racism and damned be that the other people are performing much better than the low-performers, that doesn't matter because it has to be about racism.

I am curious as to why you're not allowed to support efficient immigration policy that benefits the country the most according to some people, who will try to brand you a racist for wanting an efficient policy.

Maybe you could answer that?

[Justpassing]

See this happen over and over. People conflating efficient immigration policies with racism.

They do not want to admit that some people are performing much better than some other groups and when you suggest taking the higher performing people, some people call it racism and damned be that the other people are performing much better than the low-performers, that doesn't matter because it has to be about racism.

I am curious as to why you're not allowed to support efficient immigration policy that benefits the country the most according to some people, who will try to brand you a racist for wanting an efficient policy.

Maybe you could answer that?

Beacuse most of the times the subtext is "I hate brown people".

[Kraenen]

Beacuse most of the times the subtext is "I hate brown people".

How do you figure that?

[alexw]

See this happen over and over. People conflating efficient immigration policies with racism.

They do not want to admit that some people are performing much better than some other groups and when you suggest taking the higher performing people, some people call it racism and damned be that the other people are performing much better than the low-performers, that doesn't matter because it has to be about racism.

I am curious as to why you're not allowed to support efficient immigration policy that benefits the country the most according to some people, who will try to brand you a racist for wanting an efficient policy.

Maybe you could answer that?

Since when is deporting 12 million people efficient?

Its pretty damn obvious that there are strong racist undertones to these supposed efficient immigration policies, where its not about creating a working immigration system, but kicking out and stopping those who old white republicans see as "other".

[nextormento]

Because most of the time halfwits and people with an absurd need for controversy think there's some subtext to it.

[Ragedaug]

Beacuse most of the times the subtext is "I hate brown people".

I think you have a lot of people who conflate "Immigrate Control" and "I have brown people" just because the majority of people who enter the U.S. illegally are from Central and South America, however the reality is typically, "I don't want anyone from any country to enter this country illegally - even if their skin matches the tone of my skin".

[Darkeon]

Because, in this day and age, shutting down a different opinion or point of view is as easy as claiming that the owner of said thought is a Bigot, a Racist, etc.

[Deleted]

Havent you noticed, that since the idiotic neo-liberal so called "anti-racist" bullshit begun, true racism only grew. Talking of reverse psychology.

The entire collection of liberal labels mean nothing to me now (racist, bigot sexist etc, sounds like poetry now). Whenever i hear one of these words, it puts a smile on my face, means im on the right side.

[Nitro Fun]

Beacuse most of the times the subtext is "I hate brown people".

I think you're too biased if you think that.

[Ragedaug]

Since when is deporting 12 million people efficient?

Its pretty damn obvious that there are strong racist undertones to these supposed efficient immigration policies, where its not about creating a working immigration system, but kicking out and stopping those who old white republicans see as "other".

Really has nothing to do with race. The immigration policies are messed for people of every race.

There's no secret back door that gives Canadians and Europeans free citizen cards.

[NineSpine]

See this happen over and over. People conflating efficient immigration policies with racism.

They do not want to admit that some people are performing much better than some other groups and when you suggest taking the higher performing people, some people call it racism and damned be that the other people are performing much better than the low-performers, that doesn't matter because it has to be about racism.

I am curious as to why you're not allowed to support efficient immigration policy that benefits the country the most according to some people, who will try to brand you a racist for wanting an efficient policy.

Maybe you could answer that?

The people that generally get called "racist" for this are not advocating efficient immigration policy. They are usually extremely ignorant about the substance of the issue and are advocating pointless policies that aren't based on efficiency or progress, but instead are based on a general antipathy towards immigrants themselves. I'm talking about policies like mass deportation, which aren't efficient, don't solve any real problems, and would require a police state and human rights abuses to carry out.

This isn't new, and any student of history can tell you a thousand stories about how every new immigrant group encounters basically the same reason. The Irish, for example, were depicted as subhuman monsters who didn't share our values, our religion, or even our language (many spoke Gaelic).

[Independent voter]

If you are a plumber by trade why would you want your government to let in another 300 plumbers into the country through immigration, that would affect you economically.

When times are bad in the US immigration is a big issue, when times are good immigration isn't such a big issue. That tells me that at least in the US immigration is most an economic issue. People don't want to have to compete with foreigners.

[Ragedaug]

The people that generally get called "racist" for this are not advocating efficient immigration policy. They are usually extremely ignorant about the substance of the issue and are advocating pointless policies that aren't based on efficiency or progress, but instead are based on a general antipathy towards immigrants themselves. I'm talking about policies like mass deportation, which aren't efficient, don't solve any real problems, and would require a police state and human rights abuses to carry out.

This isn't new, and any student of history can tell you a thousand stories about how every new immigrant group encounters basically the same reason. The Irish, for example, were depicted as subhuman monsters who didn't share our values, our religion, or even our language (many spoke Gaelic).

But that's not a racist issue. They don't care what color your skin is or what your ethic background is. They don't want anyone new in "their" country. Please explain how this is defined as "racist".

Just to add, this is why we can't have a good discussion on this.

- Everyone in the country illegally should be deported - regardless of where they came from or what their race is.
- The U.S. should streamline and simplify their immigration policies to make it much easier to work in the U.S. and become a citizen.

You can disagree with either of those statements and I'd be fine with that. We can have our own opinions. But claiming I'm a racist because I believe all peoples should only migrate to the U.S. legally is intellectually dishonest and cannot lead to an honest discourse for us to find common ground. Instead we'll be fighting over your false accusation instead of discussing the issue (kinda like how this thread started).

[rogueMatthias]

The thing is, illegal immigration mostly effects immigrants. It always has and always will. Who do you think will be working the jobs if the illegal immigrants were doing them? White college students?

Illegal immigration is just a way for huge corporations to exploit people to pay as little money as possible. It's right that people should want to stop it. It entirely undermines the LEGAL immigrants who have gone through a great cost (both time and financially) in order to come into a country legally to work. There'll always be someone even more desperate who, if you don't have to worry about the law, companies can pay as little as they like and treat them as badly as they want.

Whilst the media likes to play up anti-illegal-immigration is being racist, really it's protecting income and prospects of immigrants and much lower paid workers. Rather than exporting people in the thousands or "building a giant wall" (both ideas being dumb) they should just HEAVIlLY punish companies knowingly hiring illegal immigrants.

It's a similar reason why in UK I believe we need caps on the different immigrants coming in from Eastern Europe. It doesn't effect me personally at alll; who it effects the most are the same immigrants when they want to settle down and be a part of Britain. They'll always be competing against even fresher immigrants willing to work for cheaper.

Because, in this day and age, shutting down a different opinion or point of view is as easy as claiming that the owner of said thought is a Bigot, a Racist, etc.

Pretty much this. IT's all getting a bit embarassing.

[alexw]

Really has nothing to do with race. The immigration policies are messed for people of every race.

There's no secret back door that gives Canadians and Europeans free citizen cards.

Yeah no. It has everything to do with race. You can deny reality all you want, but reality doesn't fit your narrative just because you want it to.

[NineSpine]

But that's not a racist issue. They don't care what color your skin is or what your ethic background is. They don't want anyone new in "their" country. Please explain how this is defined as "racist".

Saying that certain types of people shouldn't come to your country, and breaking those lines down by ethnicity, is by definition, racism.

Sometimes I am forced to wonder if people like you are honestly ignorant, or just dishonest and ignoring what is going on. Have you not watched a Trump rally? Have you not seen how the white nationalist movement has gotten behind him because of his immigration policies? Did you not see the spike in racially motivated attacks that came with his candidacy? When you find yourself on the same page as David Duke, you might want to stop being confused by people think you are racist.

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The thing is, illegal immigration mostly effects immigrants. It always has and always will. Who do you think will be working the jobs if the illegal immigrants were doing them? White college students?

Illegal immigration is just a way for huge corporations to exploit people to pay as little money as possible. It's right that people should want to stop it. It entirely undermines the LEGAL immigrants who have gone through a great cost (both time and financially) in order to come into a country legally to work. There'll always be someone even more desperate who, if you don't have to worry about the law, companies can pay as little as they like and treat them as badly as they want. Whilst the media likes to play up being against illegal immigration is being a big racist, really it's protecting income of immigrants and much lower paid workers to be able to live off. Rather than exporting people in the thousands or "building a giant wall", they should just HEAVIlLY punish companies knowingly hiring illegal immigrants.

It's a similar reason why in UK I believe we need caps on the different immigrants coming in from Eastern Europe. It doesn't effect me personally at all, who it effects the most if the same immigrants when they want to settle down and be a part of Britain. They'll always be competing against even fresher immigrants willing to work for cheaper.



Pretty much this. IT's all getting a bit embarassing.

Nobody has been called a racist for supporting cracking down on businesses that hire undocumented immigrants, although there are genuine concerns that this would make business turn away anyone who LOOKS like they might be an undocumented immigrant. People get called racist for supporting mass deportation and other nonsense like that.

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Yeah no. It has everything to do with race. You can deny reality all you want, but reality doesn't fit your narrative just because you want it to.

You might want to explain that graph. These boards are notorious for how poorly everyone here understands statistics.

[Stormspellz]

But that's not a racist issue. They don't care what color your skin is or what your ethic background is. They don't want anyone new in "their" country. Please explain how this is defined as "racist".

they don't want any new new that isn't like them...aka white.

[Themius]

If you are a plumber by trade why would you want your government to let in another 300 plumbers into the country through immigration, that would affect you economically.

When times are bad in the US immigration is a big issue, when times are good immigration isn't such a big issue. That tells me that at least in the US immigration is most an economic issue. People don't want to have to compete with foreigners.

All you said is people look for scapegoats.

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they don't want any new new that isn't like them...aka white.

People try to say immigration it's all about immigration. Not race. "Build a wall!" Wait who is that wall to stop? Only certain people are coming over that border. It's odd how people can boil down all immigration control to Latinos. And claim race plays no part.

[NineSpine]

But that's not a racist issue. They don't care what color your skin is or what your ethic background is. They don't want anyone new in "their" country. Please explain how this is defined as "racist".

Just to add, this is why we can't have a good discussion on this.

- Everyone in the country illegally should be deported - regardless of where they came from or what their race is.
- The U.S. should streamline and simplify their immigration policies to make it much easier to work in the U.S. and become a citizen.

You can disagree with either of those statements and I'd be fine with that. We can have our own opinions. But claiming I'm a racist because I believe all peoples should only migrate to the U.S. legally is intellectually dishonest and cannot lead to an honest discourse for us to find common ground. Instead we'll be fighting over your false accusation instead of discussing the issue (kinda like how this thread started).

Mass deportation requires a police state and human rights abuses to carry out. That's just a fact. If you are unwilling to look at this issue practically, and it is so important to expel people from your country that you would allow a police state and human rights abuses, you are a racist.

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All you said is people look for scapegoats.

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People try to say immigration it's all about immigration. Not race. "Build a wall!" Wait who is that wall to stop? Only certain people are coming over that border. It's odd how people can boil down all immigration control to Latinos. And claim race plays no part.

I'm still waiting for the policy to stop undocumented immigration from Asia, which is about 20% of undocumented immigrants. Still waiting...

[Ragedaug]

Holy crap, it's like no one crying "racist" can read at all. I was going to respond to some, but literally everyone quoting me is misrepresenting me.

It's not racist because they don't want anyone of any race to come into this country. Like someone notes, there's been times with a lot of Irish were trying to immigrate to the U.S. and people had a problem with that. Same with times where lots of Italians immigrated. Same where lots of various Asians were immigrating.

The isolationists don't care where you come from or what the color of your skin is. They have a problem when there's a big influx of immigrants (especially when they are illegal) regardless of race or skin color. So again, how is it racist if a white person doesn't want another white person to illegally enter the country? How it is racist if a brown person doesn't want another brown person to enter the country illegally?