Why do people conflate racism with wanting efficient immigration policies?

[NineSpine]

I dont know, but we need diversity in white countries becauwe there are way too many white people. All non-white countries are fine and do not need any diversity what so ever.

Did it ever occur to you that diversity may be one of the reasons the West has excelled past isolationist countries?

[Kraenen]

Yes. Anti-Irish sentiment was a big deal back then. Political cartoons regularly portrayed them as ape-like brutes.

I thought that was racist against black people, only?

[Ragedaug]

They're not "messed up" for anyone of any color. If you can't come to the US, the RIGHT way, the PROPER way, then you don't need to be here.. Simple as that. I don't give a damn if you have purple skin.

They are messed up. We make it overly difficult to enter the country legally. That's part of the reason we have so much illegal immigration.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The conversation revolves around Latinos while saying nothing of other immigrants. I mean did you not understand?

They don't understand. Conversations about illegal immigration, and suggested policies for stopping it and deporting always for some odd reason targets Mexicans... i.e. upping border patrols along our southern border, the wall, focusing deportation efforts on areas with lots of undocumented latinos.

[I Push Buttons]

A lot of anti Irish and anti Italian immigration boiled down to racism though... for fuck sakes you had pseudoscientist explaining how Irish and Italians really weren't white and were inferior and were by nature stupid.

While Britain and the US both discriminated against Irish as inferior, a lot of it in the US had to do with huge amounts of Catholics coming into a predominantly Protestant nation. Which is still discrimination, albeit against religion rather than race.

[alexw]

You realise that the US is not the only country in the world, don't you? People from all over the world get called racist for wanting to improve the immigration system in their country, so your argument fails.

Because for most people immigration is not that big of an issue. Yes it is one but not the biggest, and not their over-riding concern. For racists however it is their over-riding concern and its what drives their votes. This is why the discussion on tightening immigration is loudly driven by racists, and that ends up causing those who are not racists but want tighter immigration control to be mixed in with the racists.

If I remember correctly the loudest voice on immigration in the UK used to be the BNP and it was chock full of racists, then when UKIP sprung up the BNP died as a party. Note too that UKIP is now the loudest political voice in the UK on immigration. So its pretty obvious all the BNP racists moved over to UKIP. That's not to say all UKIP people are racists but because they have a large contingent of them in the party they all get tarred by association.

[Ragedaug]

Did it ever occur to you that diversity may be one of the reasons the West has excelled past isolationist countries?

I think you two agree. (me too, by the way). Our diversity makes us stronger.

[Themius]

No one said Irish weren't white. There very few people in the world more "white". For Flip's sake, you are completely making up crap and spewing lies to try to win the internet.

Not my fault you don't know the history of Irish racism in the states. Or the use of false science to try and place Germanic and Anglo whites as the best of all whites.

[NineSpine]

No they didn't. It's only what idiots now are saying they believed to push their agenda. People being anti-irish did not care about the color of their skin and did not claim "these people aren't white". That's complete BS.

Here's a political cartoon depicting how an irishman is the North's version of the black man, complete with ape-like caricaturing of the Irishman. it was the cover of Harpers:

http://www.printmag.com/wp-content/u...rig.jpg?19f8cb

[Kraenen]

Not my fault you don't know the history of Irish racism in the states. Or the use of false science to try and place Germanic and Anglo whites as the best of all whites.

But Irish are white. White people never faced racism.

[unbound]

See this happen over and over. People conflating efficient immigration policies with racism.

lol

What efficiency? There is no efficiency being provided in the policies, but there is indeed racism involved with them.

They do not want to admit that some people are performing much better than some other groups and when you suggest taking the higher performing people, some people call it racism and damned be that the other people are performing much better than the low-performers, that doesn't matter because it has to be about racism.

I agree. Are you willing to admit to the fact that people who immigrant legally to this country, regardless of their country of origin, race, or religion have far lower crime rates than the native US population?

That is the actual reality of the matter. Here is even a link from a conservative source that admits as much - http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth...ime-1436916798

Are you ready to admit the truth yet?

I am curious as to why you're not allowed to support efficient immigration policy that benefits the country the most according to some people, who will try to brand you a racist for wanting an efficient policy.

Maybe you could answer that?

Are you ready to admit that the "efficient" immigration policy is no such thing? Are you ready to admit that the policies are about nothing more than racism?

Even if you aren't overtly racist, you are supporting a racist policy. Whether you want to admit to the truth of the matter is entirely up to you.

[NineSpine]

I thought that was racist against black people, only?

Political cartoons had a big preoccupation with depicting non-WASP people as ape-like barbarians in the 19th century.

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But Irish are white. White people never faced racism.

All you are demonstrating is how poorly you've understood the arguments of anti-racists.

[Kraenen]

Political cartoons had a big preoccupation with depicting non-WASP people as ape-like barbarians in the 19th century.

And germans too, ironically, in the 20th.

[Ragedaug]

They don't understand. Conversations about illegal immigration, and suggested policies for stopping it and deporting always for some odd reason targets Mexicans... i.e. upping border patrols along our southern border, the wall, focusing deportation efforts on areas with lots of undocumented latinos.

ugh

just wow The Batman...just wow. That's not the only border that is patrolled. So interesting fact - all U.S. borders are patrolled. Beyond that, the one that has the most violations has the most focus. Crazy how that works huh?

Why would you focus on the one side of the boat that has the most holes? You obviously hate the water on that side of the boat...

/face_palm

[Video Games]

Did it ever occur to you that diversity may be one of the reasons the West has excelled past isolationist countries?

Then tell me why nobody is complaining about the lack of diversity is non white counties.

[Mistame]

Beacuse most of the times the subtext is "I hate brown people".

Going to need a source for that.

[Kraenen]

All you are demonstrating is how poorly you've understood the arguments of anti-racists.

No, this is literally their argument. "You have white skin, your people never suffered from racism."

it really is as simple as that for most anti racists.

[Ragedaug]

Not my fault you don't know the history of Irish racism in the states. Or the use of false science to try and place Germanic and Anglo whites as the best of all whites.

It's not racism. "Irish" isn't a race. You can't call everything you don't like "racism".

[NineSpine]

While Britain and the US both discriminated against Irish as inferior, a lot of it in the US had to do with huge amounts of Catholics coming into a predominantly Protestant nation. Which is still discrimination, albeit against religion rather than race.

The root of it was certainly religious, but it took on very strong racial and ethnic dimensions as a result, since the religious groups were so strongly split along those lines. Like any conflict between groups, the root reason for the conflict doesn't have much to do with the fact that it will eventually take on dimensions associated with their ethnic differences.

[alexw]

No one said Irish weren't white. There very few people in the world more "white". For Flip's sake, you are completely making up crap and spewing lies to try to win the internet.

Except that's wrong. At the time people were actually arguing and saying Irish people were not whites. Its only more recently that the term white has expanded to include all those of European heritage.

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The conversation revolves around Latinos while saying nothing of other immigrants. I mean did you not understand?

Well it includes Muslims too, but that's really just a proxy for another group of brown people they don't like.