Mythic+ shouldn't have time limits

[Deleted]

As two people have already mentioned, if you didn't have a time limit there wouldn't be anything stopping you from just CCing all but one of the mobs and fight them one at a time. Which would completely ruin any challenge they even have in the first place.

So the challenge here is the trash ???
Because you cannot CC the boss
Its like to put more deadly trash in myth raids than bosses there and give us time limit to clear that trash (oh crap blizz will see this we are doomed)

[durrtygoodz]

Again we are purely talking trash here. A dungeon is more than that. What is wrong with making the bosses hard? Yes you could cc the mobs 1 by 1 but how would that help if the bosses are immensly hard? THAT imo is where the difficulty should be. Not time or trash

You won't finish the dungeon and get loot if you can't kill the bosses

Do last boss Court of Stars on 10 or higher and tell me bosses aren't hard. That guy was a bitch for my group.

[Deleted]

That's the point.

It would be boring without a time limit because you could just cc everything, fight one enemy at a time, and crawl through a snail's pace. It wouldn't be hard at mythic +10 with no time limit, it would just be a long grind through a bunch of mobs' health bars. That's not the intent.

Dungeons aren't raids, so your comparison doesn't fit.

Yeha and how about jsut add new mechanics to boss fight hmm? Just like mythic does for raids. Dungeons would be harder and you would not need any stupid timer. Current Mythic with timer test only your gear becouse every boss fight is excatly same on heroic/mythic you just have to do bigger numbers to bigger hp pool nothing els.

[Pufster]

I agree that I would rather have a ton more mechanics to deal with: Mobs that have to be kited, very very short windows for interrupts/stuns, mechanics that one shot and requires instant reaction, unavoidable things that kill you unless you use a defensive CD and in general more coordination... Like a real raid, but of course also with relevant DPS checks. However only very few raid bosses have a relevant hard enrage, most enrage timers are soft and can generally be done by smart use of cooldowns, targetting or coordination of player positioning/defensive CDs.

Mythic+ right now is purely a speed test, and it sucks as a shadow priest. Right now I really cant push more DPS with my current gear level. Why not make mechanics more relevant rather than class/gear?

Of course that would require Blizzard to design new mechanics on mythic+ difficulty rather than just using a % modifier.

This is what i meant. More mechanics together with the alrdy in use of +dmg/health at each level. But then ofcourse blizzard would have to make more mechanics then instead of just using % increase and i don't think they care for that in dungeons

[Hctaz]

So the challenge here is the trash ???
Because you cannot CC the boss
Its like to put more deadly trash in myth raids than bosses there and give us time limit to clear that trash (oh crap blizz will see this we are doomed)

Trash is the challenge in a 5 man dungeon. Bosses are the challenge in raids.

[Wolfbear]

The time limit is fun.

[kestrel]

I feel like you didn't play TBC if you're saying this. Bringing multiple CC classes was mandatory. Tanks had massive avoidance, and that shit was still hard af for a long time. The reality is CC is in the game for a reason, and people want to try and zerg down these dungeons like this is WoD and you can just tank and heal through everything. That really isn't the case, but because they want those extra chests they run like idiots.

If anything I think they should relax the time limit a bit and remove the extra loot, but maybe buff the min loot, so 2 chests always for example.

I've been playing wow since the first week of release. TBC didn't have mythics, and the only timed thing it did have was the Amani War Bear, which I did with my group 15 times consecutively without failing. We did not use CC. I tanked all of those bear runs. It was just something you had to do, to quote the popular meme, you had to 'git gud' or you couldn't do it. Using CC and pulling carefully did not get you the prize. Slow and steady did not win the race.

Mythic+ is scaling challenge modes fom MoP, which I have also done on four characters. I have 7 realm best times and the Mistwalker title. We did not use CC hardly at all in those either. It just slowed you down, you had to get creative.

And, what several other people are saying, trash is harder than the bosses. The bosses in mythic+ and the old challenge modes and even in bear runs in TBC were just there to eat up time, they weren't hard because you're only fighting one thing.

[Pufster]

The time limit is fun.

Not when you are a tank.

And about all the CC: how is that gonna help you if you can't cc a boss. No loot at the end then. That is how it should be imo. Bosses, not boring trash who just auto attack you.

[Deleted]

I like how 8 people in a row go "duh but u can CC it removes da challenge durr hurr"

THEN MAKE CERTAIN/MOST MOBS IMMUNE TO CC holy shit its like people don't even use their brain anymore(assuming they possessed one to begin with), and since when did the difficulty come from trash anyway? make the bosses ridiculously highly tuned and mechanics almost guaranteed to 1 shot, with extra levels making the enrage timer worse or making mechanics more unforgiving in terms of cast speed/aoe/etc.

[Pufster]

Trash is the challenge in a 5 man dungeon. Bosses are the challenge in raids.

That is the boring part. The challenge comes from trash which just auto attack you.

It's hard cause they do much dmg. Period. I just stand there tanking trash and not even moving (unless the odd aoe on ground happens) They just attack you with high dmg. Super interesting

Would you rather have that or that difficulty comes from the mechanics of a boss together with the increased dmg/health of the boss at higher levels.

[Nzete]

CCing everything wouldn't work with the affix that is "when mob dies it buffs all of the mobs nearby".

[clevin]

As said, Mythic+ would then just be a CC fest where you bring enough CC to be able to finish the dungeon, you could go 2 healers and 3 tanks if you'd like it wouldn't matter and it would make even mythic 15+ a joke. Literally nothing would matter if there wasn't a time limit. And buffing dmg from mobs and bosses doesn't work forever since at one point all it does is 1 shot your tank, and buffing health would just make it into a very slow fight.

If you have a proposed way to keep mythic + challenging without the time limit please do share.

Holy fuck people engage your brains. You cannot CC bosses so your argument is irrelevant for those. AS for crawling through... that's the same as raids. You could just CC everything and fight mobs one at a time in trash... yet people don't do that. Hmm...

[kestrel]

Not when you are a tank.

And about all the CC: how is that gonna help you if you can't cc a boss. No loot at the end then. That is how it should be imo. Bosses, not boring trash who just auto attack you.

1 - the bosses are easier than the trash, as has been said several times. The bosses are by themselves and don't do anything new. Everybody saying JUST ADD MORE MECHANICS is missing the point. They would then have to tune all of these new mechanics and it would take a ton of work.
2 - you get loot at the end even if you fail the timer
3 - most of the trash does stuff besides auto-attacking

You are right about tanking being boring, though. I usually love tanking, but in this xpac I tried guardian druid, blood dk, prot paladin, and vengeance DH and it was so boring I swapped to a healer.

[clevin]

Without time limits, one of two things would happen:
1. We'd all be clearing +15 right now at a snail's pace each dungeon, largely rendering the scaling obsolete.
2. The only limitation would be a hard limit gear requirement, which is stupid and doesn't really demonstrate much in the way of skill.

Instead, the time limits will dictate certain classes and specs. This is better than a gear requirement... how?

[Protean]

Now before people freak out and start yelling noob let me explain:

Imo harder dungeon content should come from more dmg, more health or the affixes like there is now. Where does a time limit fit in there? It doesn't make it harder, just more frustrating.

All it promotes is rushed content. One of the problems people had with challenge modes was it felt like a rush fest. How is mythic+ different?

I've been tanking several +5/6 mythics now and all the time i was thinking: must pull faster, must pull faster, must make the time limit! The fact you always have a guy yelling gogogo! doesn't help either (we always made the time limit but you always have 'that guy')

Imagine if mythic raids had a time limit. The outcry would be immense but for dungeons its ok to have a rushfest?
The time limit promotes (at a high mythic+ level) certain class combos purely because of the time limit.

Hard dungeons are perfectly reasonable with just using dmg/mechanics.


TLDR: harder content should come from more mechanics and dmg/health. Not a rushfest a time limit gives

Someone didn't play Diablo 3 back in the old days when higher difficulty only meant more dmg and health.

It didn't get harder, it just got more boring because fights took longer and longer.

[kestrel]

Holy fuck people engage your brains. You cannot CC bosses so your argument is irrelevant for those. AS for crawling through... that's the same as raids. You could just CC everything and fight mobs one at a time in trash... yet people don't do that. Hmm...

Dungeons aren't raids.

People have said a thousand times now that bosses are not the hard part of mythic+. Bosses are immune to CC as you're so keen to point out, but bosses are also their own encounter, and you face them alone (for the most part) so there's no need to even bother with CC in the first place. You would break it because there's only one thing to be hitting.

You're getting hung up over nothing.

[Sixy]

Again we are purely talking trash here. A dungeon is more than that. What is wrong with making the bosses hard? Yes you could cc the mobs 1 by 1 but how would that help if the bosses are immensly hard? THAT imo is where the difficulty should be. Not time or trash

You won't finish the dungeon and get loot if you can't kill the bosses

Yeah well the bosses already are the most difficult part by far on the higher difficulties(8 or 9+) with a competent group that can deal with the adds. Even with the timer it is currently worth ccing mobs on some of the pulls.

[Halwyn]

"Please Blizzard remove the timers so we can afk before each pull in 15th lvl, waiting for lust" (c)

[Sixy]

Try doing those bosses on +8, 9, or 10. Mechanics that people ignored in heroic and mythic do a ton of damage, in some cases 1 shotting if you fuck them up. You actually have to play the mechanics perfectly, especially because there is a timer, fucking up the bosses can easily mean losing your key.

[Glyngaris]

The time limit is literally the only part of a mythic+ that make it challenging

Are there idiots who actually believe this? OP is obviously advocating that the time limits be replaced with additional difficulty from stats and mechanics. Only complete mouth breathing shitstains think time limits on dungeons are a good idea. It's a lazy way of making things harder, for the same reason that blizzard has almost completely done away with hard enrage timers in favor or more organic ways to make a fight harder as it goes on (fights with these timers are rare and obvious exceptions; it's a sign that blizzard was too lazy to come up with a more interesting way of doing things).

Infracted