Why do people conflate racism with wanting efficient immigration policies?

[Kalis]

Not my fault you don't know the history of Irish racism in the states. Or the use of false science to try and place Germanic and Anglo whites as the best of all whites.

That anti-Irish sentiment stems from the Irish being Papists, it is a religious thing.

Notice how the overwhelmingly Protestant nations (Anglo-Teutonic, i.e. England and Germany) were classed as white, but the Catholic ones (Irish Iberian, i.e. Ireland and Spain) weren't?

It is about divisions within Christianity and looking down on your enemy.

[NineSpine]

No, you don't know the difference between on average some advantages, versus what I bolded: available only to a particular person or group of people

Group A is made up of 100 people.
Group B is made up of 100 people.
Group A is given 125 cookies every day.
Group B is given 100 cookies every day.
Therefore, group A has a privilege that group B does not have, which is 25 extra cookies.

It's not complicated. The fact that every single human in group A doesn't necessarily benefit doesn't change that the group has a specific advantage that the other group does not.

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Why would you conflate mass immigration and ethnic diversity with "normalized relations"?

I didn't say anything about mass immigration, but you are ignoring what I was originally responding to.

[Kraenen]

Group A is made up of 100 people.
Group B is made up of 100 people.
Group A is given 125 cookies every day.
Group B is given 100 cookies every day.
Therefore, group A has a privilege that group B does not have, which is 25 extra cookies.

Okay but you have to apply it to all members of that group... which you can't in this case.

[alexw]

So why do anti-racists always say "white people in this country have never 'X'" this and that, "white privilege" etc... When whites have suffered racism and lack this very privilege?

Because modern living whites haven't and they don't know history. And modern whites are privileged. Just because some parts of what we call "whites" were not privileged in the past does not mean they are not so now.

When you have policies such as stop and frisk from only a few years ago, where New York whites had a 1 in 70 chance of being stopped while Blacks had a 1 in 7 chance, its pretty damn obvious that white privilege exists, no matter how much you don't want to admit it.

[Ragedaug]

You don't see how "you disagree with me" may be different from depicting the Irish as subhuman barbarians?

My point was they hated them because they were different, then tried to justify that with ridiculousness that a) some humans are less human than others and b) because of the exaggerated shape of two anecdotal profiles, these people obviously descended from those people.

[NineSpine]

Okay but you have to apply it to all members of that group... which you can't in this case.

Neither the definition of privilege, nor the definition of white privilege says that it must be afforded to every member in that group. You are just grasping for a technicality to disregard a concept that hurts your feelings.

[Underverse]

If white people have advantages over black people on average, then that definition would absolutely apply, and that is EXACTLY what I said.

I think the more interesting question concerns the magnitude of these effects. Until someone at least tries to quantify the effects of privilege, it's all hand-waving. And I'm not convinced that the magnitude of the effect of ethnic/racial privilege overshadows the magnitude of other sources of privilege, such as economic privilege. Moreover, I think it's a mistake to homogenize racial privilege across an entire racial group; not only are there multiple sources of racial privilege (African Americans are more likely to help other African Americans, for example), but individuals within a group are differentially affected by these privileges based largely on their environments. Any policy that aims to abrogate the effects of racial privilege, when applied equally to a distributed population, will therefore give an unfair advantage to half of that population and be inadequate for the other half. So I don't think it's particularly useful to talk about these problems as if everyone within an ethnic group shares the same experiences; that simply isn't true, and if we try to pretend that it's true we're just using the same justifications that provide the basis for the argument from racism.

[Cthulhu 2020]

ugh

just wow The Batman...just wow. That's not the only border that is patrolled. So interesting fact - all U.S. borders are patrolled. Beyond that, the one that has the most violations has the most focus. Crazy how that works huh?

Why would you focus on the one side of the boat that has the most holes? You obviously hate the water on that side of the boat...

/face_palm

But why completely ignore half of the source of immigration and spend all of your resources on the other half? Your weak attempts at defending racist policy are amusing.

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It's not racism. "Irish" isn't a race. You can't call everything you don't like "racism".

Rofl, seriously? People were trying to come up with reasons why irish didn't count as white. You people are terrible at history.

[Kraenen]

Neither the definition of privilege, nor the definition of white privilege says that it must be afforded to every member in that group. You are just grasping for a technicality to disregard a concept that hurts your feelings.

Talking down to poor people while saying they are "privileged", keep it classy.

[NineSpine]

My point was they hated them because they were different, then tried to justify that with ridiculousness that a) some humans are less human than others and b) because of the exaggerated shape of two anecdotal profiles, these people obviously descended from those people.

Saying that some humans are less human than others, and drawing those lines ethnically, is racism. Why is this so hard for you. You need to start understanding that racism isn't bad because it is called racism and that is a no no that you don't want to be. It's bad because it is bigotry. Parsing out whether you feel that ethnic bigotry is correctly categorized under the term racism is pointless, douchebag sophistry. Talk about something that matters, because at this point, your obsession with this technicality (which international and US law have already fallen on one side of) is making it PAINFULLY clear why you keep running into people that think you are a racist.

[Kraenen]

Because modern living whites haven't and they don't know history. And modern whites are privileged. Just because some parts of what we call "whites" were not privileged in the past does not mean they are not so now.

When you have policies such as stop and frisk from only a few years ago, where New York whites had a 1 in 70 chance of being stopped while Blacks had a 1 in 7 chance, its pretty damn obvious that white privilege exists, no matter how much you don't want to admit it.

Just because you've made up your own definition of privilege doesn't mean it exists.

[Crissi]

yeah, this is turning into a race thread, which we dont allow

closing