Mythic+ shouldn't have time limits

[Dangg]

Removing time limits is over all a nerf. Making things strong, via health or damage, isn't as much of a buff imo if there is no time limit. The net effect of removing the time limit is a nerf to the difficulty of the dungeon.

That makes zero sense.
What if the time limit is removed, but the dungeon has LK/Ragnaros mechanical level of difficulty and needs several hundred wipes to master?

OP wants the difficulty to come from boss mechanics not speed style run. What's not to understand about that?

[callipygoustp]

That makes zero sense.
What if the time limit is removed, but the dungeon has LK/Ragnaros mechanical level of difficulty and needs several hundred wipes to master?

OP wants the difficulty to come from boss mechanics not speed style run. What's not to understand about that?

If that actually happened, these forums would be filled with posts saying the same thing as this post : Blizzard, Mythic+ is too hard, please nerf.

[Deleted]

Link your Mythic 10 or higher achievement then.

Right, because there currently isn't a time limit, so they are extremely easy and he should have mythic+ 10 done.

OH WAIT! Time limit is still there, so it isn't easy. Nvm.

[schwarzkopf]

The time limit is literally the only part of a mythic+ that make it challenging

Um ... NO. There is the '+' part of them

Currently it is just a big AoE fest, with tanking dps style play. I was hoping for difficulty that required strategy and thought to get through.

[Eleccybubb]

Right, because there currently isn't a time limit, so they are extremely easy and he should have mythic+ 10 done.

OH WAIT! Time limit is still there, so it isn't easy. Nvm.

Kind of my point with the quote. If you cannot beat the limit then you have no cause to complain about difficulty because either you failed on the trash or boss multiple times or had shit dps.

[Triptych]

If the timers were removed, in favour of harder and more complex boss mechanics, then Mythic+ would essentially become more or less like a 5-man raid.

I don't think that's a good thing. It's better that Blizzard offers different styles of gameplay, at the risk that some players will hate one and love the other, rather than making everything too much the same.

[kestrel]

That makes zero sense.
What if the time limit is removed, but the dungeon has LK/Ragnaros mechanical level of difficulty and needs several hundred wipes to master?

OP wants the difficulty to come from boss mechanics not speed style run. What's not to understand about that?

I think the struggle is figuring out how to balance and implement something of such a style when the speed run mechanic has worked pretty well already. How would you make something in a 5-man that was punishing enough to need "several hundred wipes" to master while still making it enjoyable enough for people to want to do it, and balanced enough for it to be hard but not just unfair.

[Alvito]

I hate speed runs myself. Starting with the ZA bear runs in BC. Having said that if they didn't add a timer people would abuse the hell out of mythic + runs under their current set up.

[kestrel]

Kind of my point with the quote.

So I'm advocating for things to stay challenging, but because I haven't beaten them all, it makes my point irrelevant or hypocritical?

Or is your point that I'm bad for not having done it, or what?

It's been out less than a week.

[Varitok]

Im on board with you. Put challenge modes back in and separate them from Mythic+ dungeons. Rushing and wiping then starting arguments over it is a great way to ruin my fun.

[Shakugan123]

Did you even read his post? They could design dungeon similar to raids were the bosses are extremely difficult and need several hundred pulls.

They could, but how would they go about doing that? Just upping their damage and health (which mythic+ already does)?

Or would they add a bunch of unique mechanics to each boss, which wouldn't necessarily work out all that well considering you're limited to having only 5 players. Which greatly hinders how crazy you can get with mechanics. Then at what point is the difficulty purely a result of overturned bosses as a result of that type of change?

I'm not saying I disagree with the idea, I'm merely putting out there that it isn't just as simple as turning a few knobs.

I have a creeping suspicion that you and people like you haven't even done +4 or higher in mythic+.

You realize bolstering counters the whole CC everything and kill 1 at a time thing, yeah? It counters the zerg nonsense too. Think about stuff before you post, please.

Actually have done 5+ already, but bolstering isn't always going to be on the keystone every week. So it's not like it's a permanent counter to that idea. Plus bolstering actually has a range to it, there isn't anything stopping you from CCing and pulling a mob far enough away that bolstering won't even bother you assuming you were given unlimited time.

Also assuming bolstering WAS a full counter to that idea, it's not like you couldn't just do that and die to the trash so they lose bolstering and spend more time that way. Of course the idea of doing that would be stupid, and most people wouldn't bother. If there wasn't a time limited there isn't anything stopping some groups from spending hours upon hours doing exactly that.

[Deleted]

I'd be interested in hearing what "LK/Ragnaros level of mechanical difficulty" people want Blizzard to implement in a fucking 5man. Court of Stars +7 with Shadow Priest, Warlock enha shaman as DPS was already pretty fucking close. Probably couldn't have done it without a warrior tank.

[kestrel]

I have a creeping suspicion that you and people like you haven't even done +4 or higher in mythic+.

You realize bolstering counters the whole CC everything and kill 1 at a time thing, yeah? It counters the zerg nonsense too. Think about stuff before you post, please.

Bolstering won't be on every mythic+ run, it rotates weekly

Think before you post, please.

[Deleted]

Kind of my point with the quote. If you cannot beat the limit then you have no cause to complain about difficulty because either you failed on the trash or boss multiple times or had shit dps.

But the guy you quoted wasn't complaining about difficulty. He was pointing out that if they removed the time limit it would remove the difficulty of mythic+. The result would be mass CC + snailing your way through would be the only way to do it. Which wouldn't be fun for anyone I think :P

[pmkaboo]

Now before people freak out and start yelling noob let me explain:

Imo harder dungeon content should come from more dmg, more health or the affixes like there is now. Where does a time limit fit in there? It doesn't make it harder, just more frustrating.

All it promotes is rushed content. One of the problems people had with challenge modes was it felt like a rush fest. How is mythic+ different?

I've been tanking several +5/6 mythics now and all the time i was thinking: must pull faster, must pull faster, must make the time limit! The fact you always have a guy yelling gogogo! doesn't help either (we always made the time limit but you always have 'that guy')

Imagine if mythic raids had a time limit. The outcry would be immense but for dungeons its ok to have a rushfest?
The time limit promotes (at a high mythic+ level) certain class combos purely because of the time limit.

Hard dungeons are perfectly reasonable with just using dmg/mechanics.


TLDR: harder content should come from more mechanics and dmg/health. Not a rushfest a time limit gives

while raids do not have a time limit, most of the bosses do have enrage timer in which you have to beat them or youll be wiped. mythic+ has timers because if it didnt, you could just wait for all cooldowns before each pull and there aint much skill in that.

That makes zero sense.
What if the time limit is removed, but the dungeon has LK/Ragnaros mechanical level of difficulty and needs several hundred wipes to master?

OP wants the difficulty to come from boss mechanics not speed style run. What's not to understand about that?

well for one you cant really design raid level mechanics for a group of 5, and then theres the fact that we already do have interesting raid bosses that will wipe you hundreds of times.

[cuafpr]

agreed ditch the time limits put CC on diminishing returns and let it go. hate time limits.

[kestrel]

agreed ditch the time limits put CC on diminishing returns and let it go. hate time limits.

Honest question, I am not trying to trap you and this isn't coming from a place of judgement or aggression:

Why do you do mythic+? The time limit plays such a major part in this content, and you say you hate it. This goes for the others that have said they 'hate time limits'

I want to know. I'm sincerely curious.

[stomination]

Again we are purely talking trash here. A dungeon is more than that. What is wrong with making the bosses hard? Yes you could cc the mobs 1 by 1 but how would that help if the bosses are immensly hard? THAT imo is where the difficulty should be. Not time or trash

You won't finish the dungeon and get loot if you can't kill the bosses

That's how goes in most instanced pve content.

- - - Updated - - -

I find it odd that ppl complain about time limits when there are so many ppl telling tanks to hurry up in dungeons all the time.

[Jacpierre]

I've been playing wow since the first week of release. TBC didn't have mythics, and the only timed thing it did have was the Amani War Bear, which I did with my group 15 times consecutively without failing. We did not use CC. I tanked all of those bear runs. It was just something you had to do, to quote the popular meme, you had to 'git gud' or you couldn't do it. Using CC and pulling carefully did not get you the prize. Slow and steady did not win the race.

Mythic+ is scaling challenge modes fom MoP, which I have also done on four characters. I have 7 realm best times and the Mistwalker title. We did not use CC hardly at all in those either. It just slowed you down, you had to get creative.

And, what several other people are saying, trash is harder than the bosses. The bosses in mythic+ and the old challenge modes and even in bear runs in TBC were just there to eat up time, they weren't hard because you're only fighting one thing.

Where did I say TBC had mythic? Oh i didn't. I said the dungeons were hard for a very long time. It was harder to gear up, and heroics sucks big time. I also have an Amani War Bear. What is your point? We didn't fail either, but I'm sure we did use CC from time to time because why not. It didn't cost anything. CC is part of the game.

Also as someone has pointed out this is based on D3. The difference are in D3 every class is self sufficient. The maps are deigned differently (you can pull a ton of mobs. This is not so in WoW. You wouldn't pull unnecessary trash). D3 is design solely around killing X number of mobs and then a rift boss pops (WoW mythic+) is not. D3 rewards area also not rewarded based on how fast you finish. Only a rift key is. The extra shit is what is annoying. Oh also new people can join a rift and catch up. We can't invite new people in mythics, an we get extra loot. Change these two things an they are much better than currently.

[Varitok]

Honest question, I am not trying to trap you and this isn't coming from a place of judgement or aggression:

Why do you do mythic+? The time limit plays such a major part in this content, and you say you hate it. This goes for the others that have said they 'hate time limits'

I want to know. I'm sincerely curious.

Time limits are inherently not fun. They already put challenge modifiers on the trash and bosses so why add the timers? The gear in Mythic+ is better but its also an additional chance at Legendary gear and thats reason people do it. It feels shitty to have a timer and it makes people toss classes, who are doing less DPS or have less utility, to the wayside.