Britain will veto EU army, says Defence Secretary

[Kiri]

I tried, but quote within a quote proved too strong for one as code-inept as me. Quoteception:/

[Deleted]

It's weird to on one hand say that WW2 influences will hinder procedures and then say that people should get over it already.

one can note that something is a thing, while simultaneously wishing it wasn't.

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I tried, but quote within a quote proved too strong for one as code-inept as me. Quoteception:/

Its pretty simple.
first you quote the initial quote:
(QUOTE=Kiri;42500356) content (/QUOTE)

then add in the next quote:
(QUOTE=Kiri;42500356)

I think you want to put Teleros in that quote and not me

content
(/QUOTE)
Then make sure to have a final quote wrap for the first quote (this was your mistake i think).

[Teleros]

Davis davis also thinks the UK is going to join the WTO (which would require leaving the EU customs union, a new development).
So he either does not know what he is talking about, or he does not know what he is talking about.

The UK has been in the WTO for a while, regardless of its EU membership:

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e..._kingdom_e.htm

How would you solve EU security problems then?

I'd want an alliance structure, basically. Think NATO - independent nations' militaries co-operating to achieve common goals.

The EU army would save money is my point.

Possibly - perhaps even probably. But would it save enough to be meaningful?

Note sure those exist.

Maybe, maybe not. It's politics, so it all comes down to perceptions and the like. Even if they don't exist, if people believe they do, then yay for Putin.

No they cant.

Why not though? There are surely ways to defend Eastern Europe from Russia without an EU army. Heck, if you take 4th Generation Warfare theory seriously (Martin van Creveld is a good person to go read up on if you're interested in this), then you wouldn't even need to spend big bucks in order to do so*.

*As a very brief example, you use national service or similar to train everyone, have arms caches hidden everywhere, communication links that'll work reasonably well post-invasion, etc. When the Russkies invade, they'll think they've wandered into Fallujah or something. Give it a few years and they'll bugger off, even though they won all the pitched battles, overthrew the government, etc. No shiny & expensive F-123456 Joint Tactical Atomic Retro Fighter-Bomber-Space-Interceptors required. Makes the defence industry unhappy of course :P ...

A, i doubt she will win, B, only the UK have the paranoid insane delusions of grandeur required to have a brexit.

1. Whether she'll win or not... who knows. I wouldn't have said Trump was the likely winner when he announced his candidacy, but there we go.

2. Have you never heard of Gallic pride? France is a nuclear power with global interests and a long and proud history. Admittedly I'm not living in France and don't follow their news, so I can't claim to have a feel for what the French people think at present, but I wouldn't dismiss them on this point.

The only realistic way to do this is an EU army.

Still not convinced TBH.

= + =

[QUOTE=Kiri;42500281]

It's weird to on one hand say that WW2 influences will hinder procedures and then say that people should get over it already.

Why? I'm just (a) recognising reality, and (b) wishing it weren't so. I think the Germans should get over WW2 already, but the fact is they haven't, so I still have to deal with the facts on the ground, rather than what I wish the facts were.

[Kellhound]

4th Gen warfare is a concept that only really works at making land expensive to occupy, but it does little if the goal is to just wreck the infrastructure and withdraw. It leads to pyrrhic victory for the defender at best anyway.

[Ulmita]

Draghi Says U.K. Shouldn’t Get Any Favors in Brexit Deal

ECB president comments in testimony to European Parliament

Mario Draghi said the U.K. shouldn’t be granted any special favors on single-market access during negotiations over its exit from the European Union.
“Any outcome should ensure that all participants are subject to the same rules,” the European Central Bank president told European Parliament lawmakers on Monday. “It is very hard to imagine that any agreement that will be perceived as discriminatory against some subjects or in favor of other subjects could be a source of stability for the future of our EU.”
Since the Brexit referendum on June 23, the U.K. government has been trying to work out whether it can retain access to the single market without accepting all of its conditions, most notably the free movement of labor. Poland, the biggest exporter of workers to the U.K., last week joined a chorus of voices from the EU’s eastern nations in signaling it may veto any agreement that would erode the rights of its citizens to live and work throughout the bloc.

Draghi said that while the ECB doesn’t have an official role in the Brexit negotiations, it could act in an advisory capacity. He also noted that the central bank has jurisdiction over the payment system and that there may be a need to consider changing the regulatory framework for the planned capital markets union.
‘Empower Individuals’

His comments came as he urged governments to act to stem rising public discontent, in his latest warning that monetary policy can’t sustain the region’s recovery alone.
“Europeans are calling on our institutions to bring tangible benefits to their everyday lives,” he said in the testimony in Brussels. “Actions by national governments are needed to unleash growth, reduce unemployment and empower individuals, while offering essential protections for the most vulnerable.”
Draghi has grown increasingly vocal in his calls for elected politicians to boost spending and reform their economies as the ECB struggles to stoke inflation. The central bank’s program to buy 80 billion euros ($90 billion) a month of debt faces scarcity concerns and its negative interest rates have prompted criticism by banks and savers.

“Low rates are a symptom of the underlying economic situation,” Draghi said, while adding that their implications must be carefully monitored . “Other policy actors need to do their part.”


Executive Board member Benoit Coeure addressed the topic earlier in a speech in Rome, where he said the EU is going through a “difficult phase” and that national governments need to live up to their responsibilities.
“If fiscal and economic policies do not in fact play this role, we risk being trapped in a low growth, low interest-rate equilibrium,” Coeure said. “Moving from interest rates being ‘low for long’ to being ‘low forever’ would severely limit the room for maneuver for conventional monetary-policy tools but, even more worryingly, it would threaten the contract between generations as well as risk tearing up our social fabric.”
Policy makers are so worried about the slow pace of structural adjustments that they’ve created a task force on economic reforms. Draghi said officials will be “exploring the interactions” of different concepts, and that’s it doesn’t have a mandate to make specific recommendations to governments.
In the meantime, the Governing Council has urged administrations to pursue growth-friendly fiscal policies. After the last monetary-policy meeting on Sept. 8, Draghi went further, singling out Germany in his comments. The nation, which is running budget and current account surpluses, has “fiscal space” and “should use it,” he told reporters.
Bundestag Appearance

On Monday, he noted that countries with fiscal space are “not compelled” to use it, highlighting what he called an “asymmetry” in the application of the EU’s rules on national budgets. His opinions have been criticized by German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, and could make for a lively debate on Wednesday when the ECB chief attends a closed-door meeting with German lawmakers in Berlin.
Draghi insisted that the ECB still has monetary-policy firepower left. The central bank is currently reviewing the design of its quantitative-easing program to ensure it doesn’t run out of assets to buy. The plan is scheduled to run until March 2017, but policy makers have pledged to keep it going as long as needed.


Options include removing the rule limiting purchases to securities yielding more than the deposit rate of minus 0.4 percent, and changing the issuer or issue limits. Shifting buying allocations toward countries with larger amounts of outstanding debt has already run into opposition from the two German members of the Governing Council -- Executive Board member Sabine Lautenschlaeger and Bundesbank President Jens Weidmann.
“Widespread feelings of insecurity, including economic insecurity, remain a major concern,” Draghi said. “We cannot simply wait for better times: we need to renew our efforts to ensure that Economic and Monetary Union offers protection and prosperity. The ECB will do its part.”

Link to Article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...to-support-ecb


Highlight of his speech:

"Regardless of the type of the relationship that emerges between the EU and the UK it is of outmost importance that the integrity of the single market is respected. Any outcome should ensure that all participants are subject to the same rules. But more generaly it is important to ensure that EU meets the expectations of its people."

[Teleros]

4th Gen warfare is a concept that only really works at making land expensive to occupy, but it does little if the goal is to just wreck the infrastructure and withdraw. It leads to pyrrhic victory for the defender at best anyway.

Absolutely agreed - however I think the idea of a Russian raid from hell (ie invade, trash, retreat) is far less likely than a Russian attempted occupation (eg Ukraine).