Legendary "fix" is pure BS - Real, hardcold evidence here

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

The problem is stuff like that introduces prettty bad imbalance, because one guild can be more lucky then other. Well it does not apply to me since i do not play in competetive guild, but those at the top can be a little bit upset.

We will see at the end of the expac how this decision impacted the game, i may be wrong, but i think it will not turn out good.

While everyone is focused on legendaries, I am seeing WQs drop 890 titan-forged items (not often, but I've seen it). No limit on the number of titan-forged items you can equip. Unless something changes, I see this as ultimately more significant.

[adamzz]

"That's pretty dam lucky"
Yeah, if crap like that wasn't CONSTANTLY HAPPENING.

How often does someone win the lotto twice in a row?

Quick google search for "won lotto twice" gave plenty of results.

Some examples:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...id-Wilkes.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/m...lottery-twice/ <- three articles there with 3 different people winning the lotto twice

I can probably go on and on with more people that won lotto twice.
Still doesn't change the fact that comparing the lotto with a legendary is like comparing oranges with apples.. They are not the same, the chance to win the lotto is a lot lower than the chance of getting a legendary.

[Kathranis]

"That's pretty dam lucky"
Yeah, if crap like that wasn't CONSTANTLY HAPPENING.

How often does someone win the lotto twice in a row?

When you have millions of players playing, it's bound to happen sooner or later.

I'm inclined to believe you just don't understand probability.

[Nehezbegar]

While everyone is focused on legendaries, I am seeing WQs drop 890 titan-forged items (not often, but I've seen it). No limit on the number of titan-forged items you can equip. Unless something changes, I see this as ultimately more significant.

RNG is generally bad. Better would be that u get currency from doing dungeons to buy tokens to update items to titanforged etc.

[Danuru]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

You're welcome.

[Deleted]

"You guys"? I'm not sure what group you're referring to.

It is random. It really is. It's far easier to make things random with a chance than it is to find a way to ensure x-number-of-people get it.

It's not, IT IS NOT RANDOM, and IT WASN'T IN THE FIRST PLACE, people called this guy us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749088056?page=4#post-73 crazy untill Blizzard said that he was actually right. I can't believe how fast people forgotten about blizzard fuckup and went back to "it's RNG", IT'S NOT, Blizzard created a system that makes it less and less RNG with every instance kill and every mythic+chest open and every WQ loot box, you have absolutely ZERO evidence that this system is working as intended, zero, null, nada. It can decrease the chance as far as we know, you can't prove anything, unless you can provide me the code for that system to review you can't say it's RNG, it is not, Blizzard lost all credibility with that system publicly admiting it was rigged and it was rigged the wrong way. It's bullshit RNG that's what it is. Stop defending them with "rng man", it's bullshit argument and you know it.

[masterhorus8]

It's not, IT IS NOT RANDOM, and IT WASN'T IN THE FIRST PLACE, people called this guy us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749088056?page=4#post-73 crazy untill Blizzard said that he was actually right. I can't believe how fast people forgotten about blizzard fuckup and went back to "it's RNG", IT'S NOT, Blizzard created a system that makes it less and less RNG with every instance kill and every mythic+chest open and every WQ loot box, you have absolutely ZERO evidence that this system is working as intended, zero, null, nada. It can decrease the chance as far as we know, you can't prove anything, unless you can provide me the code for that system to review you can't say it's RNG, it is not, Blizzard lost all credibility with that system publicly admiting it was rigged and it was rigged the wrong way. It's bullshit RNG that's what it is. Stop defending them with "rng man", it's bullshit argument and you know it.

Congrats on not knowing what RNG is. Yes, it was RNG, still is, always was. Because these legendaries are not 100% drop rates, it is RNG.

[Lime]

It's not, IT IS NOT RANDOM, and IT WASN'T IN THE FIRST PLACE, people called this guy us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749088056?page=4#post-73 crazy untill Blizzard said that he was actually right. I can't believe how fast people forgotten about blizzard fuckup and went back to "it's RNG", IT'S NOT, Blizzard created a system that makes it less and less RNG with every instance kill and every mythic+chest open and every WQ loot box, you have absolutely ZERO evidence that this system is working as intended, zero, null, nada. It can decrease the chance as far as we know, you can't prove anything, unless you can provide me the code for that system to review you can't say it's RNG, it is not, Blizzard lost all credibility with that system publicly admiting it was rigged and it was rigged the wrong way. It's bullshit RNG that's what it is.

Nobody forgot about that. In fact, it's mentioned several times by both sides here.

And it's not anyone's job here to prove that is is working intended. Blizzard says that there was a bug that they fixed and it's back to normal. If you're going to challenge that, it falls on you to provide evidence. Evidence that the system was broken is not evidence that it still is, especially considering that they said they found the problem and fixed it.

Maybe you should look up what the burden of proof is?

[Deleted]

It's not, IT IS NOT RANDOM, and IT WASN'T IN THE FIRST PLACE, people called this guy us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749088056?page=4#post-73 crazy untill Blizzard said that he was actually right. I can't believe how fast people forgotten about blizzard fuckup and went back to "it's RNG", IT'S NOT, Blizzard created a system that makes it less and less RNG with every instance kill and every mythic+chest open and every WQ loot box, you have absolutely ZERO evidence that this system is working as intended, zero, null, nada. It can decrease the chance as far as we know, you can't prove anything, unless you can provide me the code for that system to review you can't say it's RNG, it is not, Blizzard lost all credibility with that system publicly admiting it was rigged and it was rigged the wrong way. It's bullshit RNG that's what it is. Stop defending them with "rng man", it's bullshit argument and you know it.

You should read the same article you linked to. That would be great eh? There was an issue meaning it wasn't RNG, as intended, but now it is. That's what the blue poster is saying. That is ALL we need to know.

People complaining about (by stating it doesn't exist) RNG is really sad. RNG is why we play, Wow is a constant lucky dip/fruit machine, if not, we would not be addicted.

[Deleted]

Congrats on not knowing what RNG is. Yes, it was RNG, still is, always was. Because these legendaries are not 100% drop rates, it is RNG.

Yeah you can also quote me "Gambler's fallacy" like the guy above who googled "how to prove it's RNG" since if you know anything about the game and not hide behind "rng man" you would know about pitty timer that makes RNG arguments irrelevant since it literally makes things happen more often in the future if they happen less often now. What else people will quote I wonder.

You should read the same article you linked to. That would be great eh? There was an issue meaning it wasn't RNG, as intended, but now it is. That's what the blue poster is saying. That is ALL we need to know.

People complaining about (by stating it doesn't exist) RNG is really sad. RNG is why we play, Wow is a constant lucky dip/fruit machine, if not, we would not be addicted.

Because blizzard said so? You know what blizzard said also? "It's working as indended" the first time they created the system.

[Danuru]

It's not, IT IS NOT RANDOM, and IT WASN'T IN THE FIRST PLACE, people called this guy us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749088056?page=4#post-73 crazy untill Blizzard said that he was actually right. I can't believe how fast people forgotten about blizzard fuckup and went back to "it's RNG", IT'S NOT, Blizzard created a system that makes it less and less RNG with every instance kill and every mythic+chest open and every WQ loot box, you have absolutely ZERO evidence that this system is working as intended, zero, null, nada. It can decrease the chance as far as we know, you can't prove anything, unless you can provide me the code for that system to review you can't say it's RNG, it is not, Blizzard lost all credibility with that system publicly admiting it was rigged and it was rigged the wrong way. It's bullshit RNG that's what it is. Stop defending them with "rng man", it's bullshit argument and you know it.

You alright there? RNG =/= True Random first of all. Computers use algorythms to simulate randomness, there is no way around it. Besides just as we can't say for certain it's working as intended, it's impossible for you to say the opposite. See my above post on gambler's fallacy. God/the universe/Rngesus/whatever is no respecter of persons, there is no balance it must maintain to make you happy.

Yeah you can also quote me "Gambler's fallacy" like the guy above who googled "how to prove it's RNG"...

How do you know what I googled? I already knew of gambler's fallacy long before i saw this discussion. In fact, I've already read the whole thing, and watched the little coin flip simulation, which i found interesting. I'm not trying to "prove it's RNG." Just that there is no proof either way, and that the burden falls on the accuser.

[masterhorus8]

Yeah you can also quote me "Gambler's fallacy" like the guy above who googled "how to prove it's RNG" since if you know anything about the game and not hide behind "rng man" you would know about pitty timer that makes RNG arguments irrelevant since it literally makes things happen more often in the future if they happen less often now. What else people will quote I wonder.

I'll continue to quote you because you don't know what RNG is. If you're not guaranteed to get it, it's random. Simple as that. It won't be 'true' random, because that's not really possible with computers. But it is RNG (the system that is used to simulate random). Just because people had a higher chance to get a second legendary after their first doesn't mean it wasn't still RNG. One of my guildies didn't get a second legendary after getting the first during the time frame for the bug (could still be going on, I wouldn't be surprised).

And no, Blizzard didn't say it was "working as intended" the first time, we just all assume that because it was released. And TBH, I think it WAS working as intended at first, but when the duplicate protection system was added a week in is when it broke.

[Deleted]

Ok since you want to defend blizzard so hard let's use an analogy.

You're walking down the street, you see a guy with a folding chair and folding table. You step up and you notice he's playing a game of three cups. He says "its 5$, if you can find the ball you get back 7$", you agree, pay him 5$ and play the game. He shuffles the cups, you point at one. Nothing. "Sorry mate", but you don't give up easly, you pay another 5$ and try again. He shuffles, seemingly faster than eye can see. You point at a cup, he lifts it up. Nothing. "Fuck!" you scream in your mind, but you quickly remind yourself that it's almost random since you can't actually see anything while he shuffles. Someone pulls your arm, it's your friend, you look at him and he says "you know it's rigged right? you know he's cheating and the ball isn't actually in the cup, he's so fast he hides the ball before you can notice", "but the guy before me won like 50$!" you respond "it's not rigged I just need to keep trying!". So you try again and again and you're already 60$ down, then something unexpected happens, the wind blows a bit too hard blowing the cups over and you can see that the ball is stuck to the inside of one of them, it's magnetic, you realise the system was rigged against you. The guy in the folding chair blushes, looks at you a bit embarased but mostly angry that people noticed. "Uh, sorry!" he says "you know what? I will switch the cups for normal ones and if you bet 5$ you will win back your 60$, what do you say?" and pulls from under the table a set of new cups, they're slightly different color, they're brand new ones. So. Do you play again or do you walk away? Do you trust this guy he's not fucking you over for another 5$?

You will probably say know "it's different! you don't gamble in the game", I know, but it wasn't about gambling it was about trust. And you guys are pretty fast on betting another 5$ just because the guy showed you new cups.

[adamzz]

Ok since you want to defend blizzard so hard let's use an analogy.

You're walking down the street, you see a guy with a folding chair and folding table. You step up and you notice he's playing a game of three cups. He says "its 5$, if you can find the ball you get back 7$", you agree, pay him 5$ and play the game. He shuffles the cups, you point at one. Nothing. "Sorry mate", but you don't give up easly, you pay another 5$ and try again. He shuffles, seemingly faster than eye can see. You point at a cup, he lifts it up. Nothing. "Fuck!" you scream in your mind, but you quickly remind yourself that it's almost random since you can't actually see anything while he shuffles. Someone pulls your arm, it's your friend, you look at him and he says "you know it's rigged right? you know he's cheating and the ball isn't actually in the cup, he's so fast he hides the ball before you can notice", "but the guy before me won like 50$!" you respond "it's not rigged I just need to keep trying!". So you try again and again and you're already 60$ down, then something unexpected happens, the wind blows a bit too hard blowing the cups over and you can see that the ball is stuck to the inside of one of them, it's magnetic, you realise the system was rigged against you. The guy in the folding chair blushes, looks at you a bit embarased but mostly angry that people noticed. "Uh, sorry!" he says "you know what? I will switch the cups for normal ones and if you bet 5$ you will win back your 60$, what do you say?" and pulls from under the table a set of new cups, they're slightly different color, they're brand new ones. So. Do you play again or do you walk away? Do you trust this guy he's not fucking you over for another 5$?

You will probably say know "it's different! you don't gamble in the game", I know, but it wasn't about gambling it was about trust. And you guys are pretty fast on betting another 5$ just because the guy showed you new cups.

This analogy is really really bad and does not apply to this at all...
Blizzard isn't manually giving legendaries to certain people to keep everyone else playing. If you think they do that then you are truly delusional.

[masterhorus8]

Ok since you want to defend blizzard so hard let's use an analogy.

You're walking down the street, you see a guy with a folding chair and folding table. You step up and you notice he's playing a game of three cups. He says "its 5$, if you can find the ball you get back 7$", you agree, pay him 5$ and play the game. He shuffles the cups, you point at one. Nothing. "Sorry mate", but you don't give up easly, you pay another 5$ and try again. He shuffles, seemingly faster than eye can see. You point at a cup, he lifts it up. Nothing. "Fuck!" you scream in your mind, but you quickly remind yourself that it's almost random since you can't actually see anything while he shuffles. Someone pulls your arm, it's your friend, you look at him and he says "you know it's rigged right? you know he's cheating and the ball isn't actually in the cup, he's so fast he hides the ball before you can notice", "but the guy before me won like 50$!" you respond "it's not rigged I just need to keep trying!". So you try again and again and you're already 60$ down, then something unexpected happens, the wind blows a bit too hard blowing the cups over and you can see that the ball is stuck to the inside of one of them, it's magnetic, you realise the system was rigged against you. The guy in the folding chair blushes, looks at you a bit embarased but mostly angry that people noticed. "Uh, sorry!" he says "you know what? I will switch the cups for normal ones and if you bet 5$ you will win back your 60$, what do you say?" and pulls from under the table a set of new cups, they're slightly different color, they're brand new ones. So. Do you play again or do you walk away? Do you trust this guy he's not fucking you over for another 5$?

You will probably say know "it's different! you don't gamble in the game", I know, but it wasn't about gambling it was about trust. And you guys are pretty fast on betting another 5$ just because the guy showed you new cups.

Who said I was defending Blizzard? I usually do, but in this case, they done fucked. And once again, someone trying to compare two things that can't be compared. Blizzard isn't getting rid of any chances. You comparison is bullshit and you wasted too much timing typing that pile of garbage. 1/10 chance is RNG (when done on a computer). 1/100 chance is RNG. 1/100000 chance is RNG. 1/10000000000000 chance is RNG. Should I keep going? As I said in my previous post(s) that you so graciously ignored, IF IT IS NOT GUARANTEED, IT IS RNG. It your case, it's not random, because it's guaranteed to fail.

[Lime]

Ok since you want to defend blizzard so hard let's use an analogy.

You're walking down the street, you see a guy with a folding chair and folding table. You step up and you notice he's playing a game of three cups. He says "its 5$, if you can find the ball you get back 7$", you agree, pay him 5$ and play the game. He shuffles the cups, you point at one. Nothing. "Sorry mate", but you don't give up easly, you pay another 5$ and try again. He shuffles, seemingly faster than eye can see. You point at a cup, he lifts it up. Nothing. "Fuck!" you scream in your mind, but you quickly remind yourself that it's almost random since you can't actually see anything while he shuffles. Someone pulls your arm, it's your friend, you look at him and he says "you know it's rigged right? you know he's cheating and the ball isn't actually in the cup, he's so fast he hides the ball before you can notice", "but the guy before me won like 50$!" you respond "it's not rigged I just need to keep trying!". So you try again and again and you're already 60$ down, then something unexpected happens, the wind blows a bit too hard blowing the cups over and you can see that the ball is stuck to the inside of one of them, it's magnetic, you realise the system was rigged against you. The guy in the folding chair blushes, looks at you a bit embarased but mostly angry that people noticed. "Uh, sorry!" he says "you know what? I will switch the cups for normal ones and if you bet 5$ you will win back your 60$, what do you say?" and pulls from under the table a set of new cups, they're slightly different color, they're brand new ones. So. Do you play again or do you walk away? Do you trust this guy he's not fucking you over for another 5$?

You will probably say know "it's different! you don't gamble in the game", I know, but it wasn't about gambling it was about trust. And you guys are pretty fast on betting another 5$ just because the guy showed you new cups.

Are you so deluded that you think Blizzard is actively trying to scam you out of legendaries? Dear god... I can't believe you just tried to compare a bug in a game to a person actively trying to scam money out of people...

You just lost any form of credibility that you thought you had. That's probably the biggest strawman I've ever seen posted on this site and that's saying something. I'd be surprised if anyone takes you seriously from this point on.

[Deleted]

So; you did all that, but didn't bother to read what this fix actually addressed?

It had nothing to do with people not getting any legendaries in the 1st place.
This litterally is RNG. Read up on a little somehting called "gambler's fallacy" please.

[Danuru]

Ok since you want to defend blizzard so hard let's use an analogy.

You're walking down the street, you see a guy with a folding chair and folding table. You step up and you notice he's playing a game of three cups. He says "its 5$, if you can find the ball you get back 7$", you agree, pay him 5$ and play the game. He shuffles the cups, you point at one. Nothing. "Sorry mate", but you don't give up easly, you pay another 5$ and try again. He shuffles, seemingly faster than eye can see. You point at a cup, he lifts it up. Nothing. "Fuck!" you scream in your mind, but you quickly remind yourself that it's almost random since you can't actually see anything while he shuffles. Someone pulls your arm, it's your friend, you look at him and he says "you know it's rigged right? you know he's cheating and the ball isn't actually in the cup, he's so fast he hides the ball before you can notice", "but the guy before me won like 50$!" you respond "it's not rigged I just need to keep trying!". So you try again and again and you're already 60$ down, then something unexpected happens, the wind blows a bit too hard blowing the cups over and you can see that the ball is stuck to the inside of one of them, it's magnetic, you realise the system was rigged against you. The guy in the folding chair blushes, looks at you a bit embarased but mostly angry that people noticed. "Uh, sorry!" he says "you know what? I will switch the cups for normal ones and if you bet 5$ you will win back your 60$, what do you say?" and pulls from under the table a set of new cups, they're slightly different color, they're brand new ones. So. Do you play again or do you walk away? Do you trust this guy he's not fucking you over for another 5$?

You will probably say know "it's different! you don't gamble in the game", I know, but it wasn't about gambling it was about trust. And you guys are pretty fast on betting another 5$ just because the guy showed you new cups.

1) I never defended Blizzard. I simply presented objective fact to state it's impossible to know if the rng is working as intended without delving into the code yourself.
2) Blizzard never cheated anybody, it was a mistake in the programming. They didn't have to acknowledge it, and no one would've been able to prove otherwise, they could've silently fixed it and most people would've thought it was a fluke.
3) What possible reason would Blizzard have to intentionally rig the system to give certain people more legendaries?
4) I really don't even give a fuck about getting a legendary. It be cool to get one, but I wouldn't be surprised if I never see one. So far, no one in my guild, and none of my friends have seen one. If I didn't ever come too MMOC, I wouldn't even know there were legendaries.
5) I think what you suffer from is a severe case of cynicism, you are too busy trying to search for ulterior motives than to take information at face value. This is evident in your original skepticism of me where you pointed out what I must have googled. As if you knew my every thought and intention, and they were all bad.

[Deleted]

1) I never defended Blizzard. I simply presented objective fact to state it's impossible to know if the rng is working as intended without delving into the code yourself.
2) Blizzard never cheated anybody, it was a mistake in the programming. They didn't have to acknowledge it, and no one would've been able to prove otherwise, they could've silently fixed it and most people would've thought it was a fluke.
3) What possible reason would Blizzard have to intentionally rig the system to give certain people more legendaries?
4) I really don't even give a fuck about getting a legendary. It be cool to get one, but I wouldn't be surprised if I never see one. So far, no one in my guild, and none of my friends have seen one. If I didn't ever come too MMOC, I wouldn't even there were legendaries.
5) I think what you suffer from is a severe case of cynicism, you are too busy trying to search for ulterior motives than to take information at face value. This is evident in your original skepticism of me where you pointed out what I must googled. As if you knew my every thought and intention, and they were all bad.

They can be rigging it against people without legendary unintentionally, something else somewhere in the code can be broken, there are million uppon milion of lines of code, it's pretty easy to have broken code in multiple places. Just because they've found one broken piece doesn't mean it's fixed. They can think it's fixed, we can think it's fixed and nobody is really lying but nobody can be sure it's actually fixed. That's my point. Of course Blizzard isn't making it harder for people with no legendary but as they showed in the past their system isn't reliable and since nobody can be 100% sure it's working as indended we shouldn't use defend it with "it's just rng man", it's so much more.

Are you so deluded that you think Blizzard is actively trying to scam you out of legendaries? Dear god... I can't believe you just tried to compare a bug in a game to a person actively trying to scam money out of people...

You just lost any form of credibility that you thought you had. That's probably the biggest strawman I've ever seen posted on this site and that's saying something. I'd be surprised if anyone takes you seriously from this point on.

See, you say that and it kinda sounds serious but one week from now you won't even remember my nickname, unless the forum is your whole life then well, I think people should feel more sorry for you than they feel for me.

[Dawnrage]

I got my first legendary today after hundreds (yeah, literally hundreds) of heroic dungeons in the first 3 weeks as well as doing all the mythic dungeons, and now many, many mythic+ dungeons with my guild spam running them. Finally got it from heroic Nightmare Dragons in the EN raid. A friend of mine in the guild who came back for the expansion and rarely has time to play got his a week ago from his emissary cache.

RNG is RNG. Maybe those with multiple legendaries have a higher chance to get one still, but I'm more inclined to still think that it's just luck of the draw based off personal anecdote.