Withered training so annoyingly broken

[schwarzkopf]

I'm not sure why you're trying to argue

No argument ... just making an observation. Why do people insist on thinking there is an argument when one is just stating facts?

[sultangurde]

Scenario is easy. Went there 2nd time with DK tank (815 ilvl) took 12 withered, finished with 640+ score (couldnt open doors that needs 2 berserkers).

[srathgar]

No argument ... just making an observation. Why do people insist on thinking there is an argument when one is just stating facts?

Because you are not stating a fact, you are making a statement without backing it up at all?

Also, it is quite fun to observe your dismissal of another persons experiences as they did not match your own, which apparently invalidates it and is a fantasy world. I would argue yours is the fantasy, but if it was a fantasy your farm time would not be as bad as it apparently is.

Also, you did make an observation, that the time of day that you farm on is a bad one, or that you are bad at farming them.

But then again, that is my observation so far as you proclaimed my experience as a lie while your own experience apparently is so much more credible.

[Dawnrage]

Yeah it kind of sucks that the bug is there and you lose out on loot completely, but really, just don't die. That fixes it easily, or play a different spec (you have prot available to you and it's the best spec you can be in there by far). Whining about this on the forums and refusing to look at your options doesn't really let me have any sympathies for you, sorry.

I have finished the withered training with the bare minimum withered at this point (the 400 mana, 10 withered) as a non-tank spec. The shit really is not that hard at all when you have all the upgrades for them and the knowledge of what to do.

[ErothTV]

God I freaking hate this quest. I have spent so much time in there for nothing and no rewards. As a warrior when you die a valkyrie saves you, but it breaks the quest since you die afterwards and wont be able to ress at your body and the wont be able to get the chests. I just cant understand why it has to continue to be so utterly broken and unplayable. It isn't fun spenting 20+ minutes each time to get nothing at all and lose 1100 ancient mana and 150g from repair.

Do it with 2k ancient mana, only.
It gives You way more damage. Way more.

[Vaelorian]

People should stop using the word broken... As long as it is playable (minion running off is iirc as it should be *risk*) it is not broken. Perhaps buggy at times. Though not for me though. I am not saying I am maxing out chests... but if you play carefully and just use your stuns and interrupts at hte right time, nothing much can hurt you. And don't just mindlessly catch any chests right away. Clear a bit first.

[Otimus]

There is absolutely nothing broken about withered training. It's a strange combination of arrogance and ignorance that would lead you to blame the scenario that many, many people are completing successfully and label it as 'broken' because you're failing at it. It's not broken, and the first step to improving in anything is to adjust your attitude. Ask yourself, is it reasonable that I am not succeeding where others are? Is it more likely that I am missing something or that there is a problem with the scenario?

There actually totally are some things broken about it. Like the AI going places it shouldn't be going sometimes (mainly those stairs in that one room if you get too close to them, and pulling extra enemies because of it).

[Deleted]

God I freaking hate this quest. I have spent so much time in there for nothing and no rewards. As a warrior when you die a valkyrie saves you, but it breaks the quest since you die afterwards and wont be able to ress at your body and the wont be able to get the chests. I just cant understand why it has to continue to be so utterly broken and unplayable. It isn't fun spenting 20+ minutes each time to get nothing at all and lose 1100 ancient mana and 150g from repair.

This is a frustrating bug but yeah, just go Prot. I'm not even sure I have all the spells on my bars but ignore pain is on there so I've never really worried about dying.

[Strawberry]

There is absolutely nothing broken about withered training. It's a strange combination of arrogance and ignorance that would lead you to blame the scenario that many, many people are completing successfully and label it as 'broken' because you're failing at it. It's not broken, and the first step to improving in anything is to adjust your attitude. Ask yourself, is it reasonable that I am not succeeding where others are? Is it more likely that I am missing something or that there is a problem with the scenario?

There are plenty of bugged parts of the scenarion.
For example yesterday I went from 33 withered to 19 because - half of them kept following me while half got stuck somewhere and were too far away and just disappeared.
Another time I got stuck on loading screen and then got kicked out of the scenario without even starting it or being able to restart.
Oh and you know what happens if you disconnect in the scenario?
Bugged, broken.

[Deleted]

There actually totally are some things broken about it. Like the AI going places it shouldn't be going sometimes (mainly those stairs in that one room if you get too close to them, and pulling extra enemies because of it).

Well... the withered were never meant to be smart. :P

[Rotted]

I'm confused with this still a little

Just to begin with, I only hit 110 just over two weeks ago and haven't had much play time yet

I go in with 600 mana crystals, the first time I was an idiot and rushed straight into the first mob, with all trash and died. But I got as a reward:

Some gold,
Couple hundred artefact
100 rep
25 rep x2

Now I've upgraded my artefact collection rate since then and went in again a few days ago.

600 again, this time went in, cleared the first room, cleared the second room but at this point lost my berskers so I couldn't open the third door. I finish with a score of 50 opposed to 3 the first time,

I got as a reward
Roughly the same g
600 artifact
100 rep
25 rep x2

That seemed odd to me tbh

Oh also the only glitch I've experienced with it, I saved up full mana crystals, went in, loading screen wouldn't load, waited 5 mins, nothing. Rebooted wow, got I'm straight away, but it chucked me to the nearest gy, no attempt and lost crystals. That was annoying

[Nayami]

I believe Blood DKs had a similar bug when their cheat-death mechanic (Purgatory) procced too. I remember seeing it fixed in a hotfix though I haven't tried it myself as I do it as Unholy.

I would suggest increasing your mana-cap to 2k and to go with 20 withered. The damage is unbelievable, bosses go down in seconds with Enrage mode. At one point I even ended up with 40+ withered.

Follow the top comment here if you want to know where to increase your mana-cap:

http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=1...-all-this-mana

[thesmall001]

There is absolutely nothing broken about withered training. It's a strange combination of arrogance and ignorance that would lead you to blame the scenario that many, many people are completing successfully and label it as 'broken' because you're failing at it. It's not broken, and the first step to improving in anything is to adjust your attitude. Ask yourself, is it reasonable that I am not succeeding where others are? Is it more likely that I am missing something or that there is a problem with the scenario?

As one of those people who's completed it 100% no problem after a few runs: I'm still calling it out as buggy. It's an exercise of control and yet you occasionally lose control of your entire pack as they run off somewhere for no apparent reason OR (the one that cost me a whole run this week) you pull a boss only for them all to stack up on one spot and do nothing and freeze for over 3-4 minutes whilst the boss whittles you down and toggling "Mayhem!" does nothing.

And there are odd interactions with life-save abilities that you presume you can rely on until they proc and break the scenario or don't proc and end the scenario. So his complaint is perfectly valid.

[Deleted]

There is absolutely nothing broken about withered training. It's a strange combination of arrogance and ignorance that would lead you to blame the scenario that many, many people are completing successfully and label it as 'broken' because you're failing at it. It's not broken, and the first step to improving in anything is to adjust your attitude. Ask yourself, is it reasonable that I am not succeeding where others are? Is it more likely that I am missing something or that there is a problem with the scenario?

Rofl - get over yourself.

[Deleted]

You won't really die in there unless you mass pull (I'm talking about pulling an entire room - which you shouldn't do, for the sake of your withered)

The quest is a bit...underwhelming (because of how little it rewards, considering the amount of time spent and going back and forth), but I wouldn't call it broken. My main complaint is that it's absurd to take your withered away when you port a treasure. The game should just keep your withered with you until you're back at the Arcanist and remember how many you "spent" on each treasure. I find it quite annoying that you have to clear everything first, then go back for every treasure (assuming you even remember where each 10 withered treasure was)

Fortunately, people are already hitting exalted and soon there'll be no reason to go back there.

[arcaneshot]

There actually totally are some things broken about it. Like the AI going places it shouldn't be going sometimes (mainly those stairs in that one room if you get too close to them, and pulling extra enemies because of it).

It's actually because they're using Disengage and falling down the hole.

In other words don't fight next to the pit.

[Deleted]

There is absolutely nothing broken about withered training. It's a strange combination of arrogance and ignorance that would lead you to blame the scenario that many, many people are completing successfully and label it as 'broken' because you're failing at it. It's not broken, and the first step to improving in anything is to adjust your attitude. Ask yourself, is it reasonable that I am not succeeding where others are? Is it more likely that I am missing something or that there is a problem with the scenario?

Could your head possibly be further up your own ass?

[Kitanii]

Every time someone complains about withered training I only see "go tank". As a druid, I did go tank and it turned out to be the easiest shit on earth. But what about those classes that can't? Warlocks and Hunters might have a pet to tank/taunt stuff. But what about mages, priests, shamens and rogues? How are you guys doing?

[Otimus]

It's actually because they're using Disengage and falling down the hole.

In other words don't fight next to the pit.

I've seen them walk down directly down there without fighting just by virtue of getting too close to the center due to poor pathfinding AI. (I never fight in the center if I can avoid it)

[Eurhetemec]

It's actually because they're using Disengage and falling down the hole.

In other words don't fight next to the pit.

It's not just that.

Not only is there wacky pathfinding as described by the poster above, there's an interestingly bizarre bug which also applies to bodyguards, where the followers in question will decide to all aggro on some far-distant target (often well outside your ability range) for reasons unclear.

A good example was the first time I got to the Elfbreaker. I was scoping the room out, from maybe 15-20 yards back into the tunnel - I was taking quite a while. I was not in combat with anything, nor did I (nor could I have! He was wildly outside my range) use any abilities on the Elfbreaker. Yet whilst I'm standing there, my Withered suddenly all hare off, straight for the Elfbreaker. I was horrified. I rushed in and we actually won with surprisingly low losses, but it was pretty hair-raising.

I was narrating what I was doing for my wife recently (she's ill and can't play much but likes to watch), and whinging about how sometimes the Withered ran off - and then they did, this time at some rando spiderelf - and what I noticed was they did it when I mouseovered the spiderelf in question, and I had been hovering my mouse on the Elfbreaker too. I did not use any other ability that I'm aware of, and again, was out of range.

I've had the straightforward "whoops disengage to the basement", but the first time it happened, it was definitely akin to this - in fact my Withered all just literally vanished, and I had to run downstairs to find them.

I've also seen a ton of other bugs with pathing with the Withered, the worst ones being where some percentage of them (usually 50-100%) just decide to stop moving at all, and toggling the berserk does nothing. I have had to take several minutes moving around trying to avoid them despawning but also trying to convince them to move before that has been fixed.

Combine that with the fact that unless you have a tank spec (which, fortunately, I do), Withered Army Training is extremely painful, esp. before upgrades, and I think it's fair to say that whilst I personally enjoy it, it's both broken (as in very buggy) and very poorly balanced/designed. It's still bizarre that you can't heal them at all - obviously that would a big advantage to healers but... given we're currently massively advantaging tanks... not sure how that would be a problem, especially given the theme/style of the whole thing (managing and slowly upgrading your own incompetent raid group).