Who else is pissed about the nerfs to prot?

[Deleted]

They hit prot paladin's self healing with massive nerfs too, so welcome to the club.

I'd take a nerf to IP gladly over what we're getting, halfing the absorb per rage on IP, halfing the IP cap and Halfing the damage reduction we have from IP would be preferably to what we're currently getting.

[Sammonoske]

I'd take a nerf to IP gladly over what we're getting, halfing the absorb per rage on IP, halfing the IP cap and Halfing the damage reduction we have from IP would be preferably to what we're currently getting.

Halfing IP across the board like that would do more harm than the nerfs we just got. That would KILL prot.

[Arikara]

This IS killing prot; or atleast the gameplay of the specc. I'd rather have solid gameplay through Vengeance/Ultimatum, than the slow, boring crap of waiting for mobs to hit us in order to generate our sufficient rage before we can do anything, which this change will bring about. Nerfing Ignore Pain to a more reasonable level instead of targeting the only talents that enable an enjoyable rotation should be more than enough to bring us in line with other tanks, while still letting us opt into Vengeance/Ultimatum. As it is, we'll be forced to pick other talents, and play while permanently rage-starved.

If a 50% nerf to IP is what it takes to enable that, then i'd gladly accept that instead of the garbage they're forcing on us.

[Deleted]

This IS killing prot; or atleast the gameplay of the specc. I'd rather have solid gameplay through Vengeance/Ultimatum, than the slow, boring crap of waiting for mobs to hit us in order to generate our sufficient rage before we can do anything, which this change will bring about. Nerfing Ignore Pain to a more reasonable level instead of targeting the only talents that enable an enjoyable rotation should be more than enough to bring us in line with other tanks, while still letting us opt into Vengeance/Ultimatum. As it is, we'll be forced to pick other talents, and play while permanently rage-starved.

If a 50% nerf to IP is what it takes to enable that, then i'd gladly accept that instead of the garbage they're forcing on us.

This. I've been playing Vengeance/Ultimatum since the prepatch 3-4 months ago, and they just out of the blue killed it with their "minor tuning" for absolutely no reason. It's just depressing.

Set a cap for the IP stacking. Make it scale on harder hitting mobs so it's not OP on easy content. Just flat out reduce the absorb amount. Literally do ANYTHING except cripple the entire goddamn rotation and make it unplayable like you did.

[Valech]

This IS killing prot; or atleast the gameplay of the specc. I'd rather have solid gameplay through Vengeance/Ultimatum, than the slow, boring crap of waiting for mobs to hit us in order to generate our sufficient rage before we can do anything, which this change will bring about. Nerfing Ignore Pain to a more reasonable level instead of targeting the only talents that enable an enjoyable rotation should be more than enough to bring us in line with other tanks, while still letting us opt into Vengeance/Ultimatum. As it is, we'll be forced to pick other talents, and play while permanently rage-starved.

If a 50% nerf to IP is what it takes to enable that, then i'd gladly accept that instead of the garbage they're forcing on us.

This. I've been playing Vengeance/Ultimatum since the prepatch 3-4 months ago, and they just out of the blue killed it with their "minor tuning" for absolutely no reason. It's just depressing.

Set a cap for the IP stacking. Make it scale on harder hitting mobs so it's not OP on easy content. Just flat out reduce the absorb amount. Literally do ANYTHING except cripple the entire goddamn rotation and make it unplayable like you did.

You guys are funny. The depressing kind. "Please nerf what makes us currently strong because I want to press more buttons"
Go play some fotm class.. Oh wait, it seems you did.

[shyguybman]

Do warriors generally have a ton of rage in raids? I've only tanked mythics so far (i'm a dps in the raid) and there are plenty of times I hardly have any rage, can't imagine having significantly less.

[Sethanor]

Do warriors generally have a ton of rage in raids? I've only tanked mythics so far (i'm a dps in the raid) and there are plenty of times I hardly have any rage, can't imagine having significantly less.

in m+ i have hardly any rage MOST of the time... its frustrating at the least.

rage-gen is garbage and unreliable

[Deleted]

This IS killing prot; or atleast the gameplay of the specc. I'd rather have solid gameplay through Vengeance/Ultimatum, than the slow, boring crap of waiting for mobs to hit us in order to generate our sufficient rage before we can do anything, which this change will bring about. Nerfing Ignore Pain to a more reasonable level instead of targeting the only talents that enable an enjoyable rotation should be more than enough to bring us in line with other tanks, while still letting us opt into Vengeance/Ultimatum. As it is, we'll be forced to pick other talents, and play while permanently rage-starved.

If a 50% nerf to IP is what it takes to enable that, then i'd gladly accept that instead of the garbage they're forcing on us.

Ultimatum + Vengeance is still good. Or do you think that 3% haste outweight's 35% cheaper Ignore Pains?

[Valech]

Ultimatum + Vengeance is still good. Or do you think that 3% haste outweight's 35% cheaper Ignore Pains?

Guess it´s more about the demo shout talent rather then into the fray.

- - - Updated - - -

Do warriors generally have a ton of rage in raids? I've only tanked mythics so far (i'm a dps in the raid) and there are plenty of times I hardly have any rage, can't imagine having significantly less.

I never struggled to keep up block or IP during heroic. Can´t think of a reason why mythic would be worse in terms of rage gen.

[Deleted]

in m+ i have hardly any rage MOST of the time... its frustrating at the least.

rage-gen is garbage and unreliable

No rage issues in Mythics.
But i run Best Served Cold setup and just let dps handle the bosses.
Revenge can easily give 50+ Rage on a Crit, nice IPs. Low HP, and bad Shield Block uptime so a high risk, high reward spec.
As it requires you to know what you can pull as much as possible off to utilize it's incredible rage generation aoe potential.

[Deleted]

Ultimatum + Vengeance is still good. Or do you think that 3% haste outweight's 35% cheaper Ignore Pains?

60*0.65=39 so yes certainly cheaper, but that's only if we weave with Focused rage which costs 30 rage, offset by vengeance so 30*0.65=19.5, add those rage cost together it's 58.5 rage for a full strength IP, a net saving of 1.5 rage per IP (so actually 2.5% cheaper) and an additional FR per IP, which we don't really care about because no one's complaining about Prot's DPS. Pre-nerf (i.e now) it's a saving of 15 rage per IP, the vengeance nerf is a 90% drop in effectiveness.


Back tracking through my logs the nerf looks to make my rotation 34% more expensive and at the same time drop my RPS by 35%. Of course I haven't touched Mythic raid bosses yet, so my rage may be gimped because I'm not getting hit that hard. But I'd rather have a fast play style with lots of off the GCD things than one that feels like it's stalled because the boss is casting and SnB isn't proccing.

I haven't noticed Revenge Crits giving rage.

[Deleted]

Maybe it's just me but a slight nerf to SS rage gain and vengeance doesn't seem that bad considering that like 2/3 of our rage comes from damage taken anyway, which will most likely increase further when going into mythic.

disclaimer: I main arms and only tanked dungeons (up to +7) and HC cenarius + xavius with a low lvl artifact optimised for trash DPS in dungeons

[Deleted]

Maybe it's just me but a slight nerf to SS rage gain and vengeance doesn't seem that bad considering that like 2/3 of our rage comes from damage taken anyway, which will most likely increase further when going into mythic.

disclaimer: I main arms and only tanked dungeons (up to +7) and HC cenarius + xavius with a low lvl artifact optimised for trash DPS in dungeons

I only get 30-40% of my rage from Damage.

[Swiftshadow]

i would rather they left ur class alone and buff other tanks.

[DisposableHero]

Guess it´s more about the demo shout talent rather then into the fray.

50 rage every 90 seconds is out done by 3 shield slam crits in 90 seconds. Battlecry guarantees 1.5, and shatter the bones basically assures that even with no crit on gear we will get more than 3 SS crits in 90 seconds. Neither alternative to ultimatum provides an indirect defensive benefit so there really isn't much else to consider. Rotating IP and FR as we do now will still provide essentially a free Focused Rage per cycle and the ability to push smaller ignore pains out to deal extra damage, but the defensive benefit, even limited to the interaction with ultimatum will still be stronger defensively than Booming Voice.

[szandos]

I'd rather take a nerf to IP per rage than rage gen. Playing prot is boring enough now with the rage starvation most of the time, will be frustratingly so after this.

[GameFX]

They said the tuning isn't final so I created a thread for constructive feedback

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749316192#1

Let them know

[Heladys]

They said the tuning isn't final so I created a thread for constructive feedback

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749316192#1

Let them know

They probably won't find "Go fuck yourselves" constructive.

[Keenclaw]

Ahhh, the thing IS to control your rage bar, not empty it as soon as you are able to push something. You pool your rage and will decide which hits you take and which hits you absorb. This is what all the other tanks were doing all the time. They did not have a "flaw" in dungeons and not going to have it in raids as well. You think a guardian druid for example have ironfur and mark of ursol at the same time all the time? No. (Sure you or your guildie can do it, even 2 stacks of IF, I am generalizing here) When it comes to damage, people love to look at logs, but look at the same logs, compare the uptime between IP and Shield Block, there you have your answer.

[Deleted]

Ahhh, the thing IS to control your rage bar, not empty it as soon as you are able to push something. You pool your rage and will decide which hits you take and which hits you absorb. This is what all the other tanks were doing all the time. They did not have a "flaw" in dungeons and not going to have it in raids as well. You think a guardian druid for example have ironfur and mark of ursol at the same time all the time? No. (Sure you or your guildie can do it, even 2 stacks of IF, I am generalizing here) When it comes to damage, people love to look at logs, but look at the same logs, compare the uptime between IP and Shield Block, there you have your answer.

Difference is warriors were designed to have almost 100% uptime on IP, therefore are designed to be destroyed without it. So there is no "waiting". There is no time to "pool rage" or just "take a hit", especially not in Mythic +. Warriors cannot take unmitigated damage like other tanks can. They can not afford to sacrifice their health by taking unmitigated hits in an effort to pool rage because they have no way of getting that health back.