Where are the fire nerfs?

[Pandacally]

I am absolutely surprised that fire did not get a nerf.

Their performance is over the top in single target and AoE, as well as in movement heavy fights. Even their burst potential is better than most classes.
If you compare this to what frost or arcane can bring, even after the buffs, I wonder if blizzard wants all mages to be fire?

So far, the "hotfix" balance patch mostly hit DHs and Monks AoE, and shadow and MS warri single target, but they really need to bring down MM hunter, fire mage and maybe some rogue speccs.

If you look at the raid environment (7/7 hc so far), it is plain stupid that elemental shaman and arcane/frost mage as well as most warlock speccs get to eat shit, trying to do dps when every encounter has little ramp-up time, burst windows and tons of movement, and then get shit on in dps by fire mages and hunters, where the latter only need to find 2 buttons.
Fire mages are also way to easy, but not as bad as hunters.

You wanna talk about mythic+ dungeons? Then delete frost immediatly. And if you are arcane, have fun relying on your tank to do crazy pull strats so you get some decent aoe off, because single target you are shit. And yeah, have fun sitting down drinking after every trash pack.
Oh yeah and fire, just hit that one button living bomb, will do enough.

Srsly either nerf the shit out of fire or give frost/arcane some better buffs.
The fairer option would be to nerf fire mages and hunters, so that all range speccs would be equally good/bad.

/rage over

[TenebrusDH]

Or you can just wait and see how the changes effect your class/spec come Tuesday because sims aren't always accurate?

[arandan]

Your 'logic' is amusing. The fact that fire is much better than frost or arcane for mythic+ does not make it overpowered, it simply makes frost and arcane underpowered.
If you nerf fire you are left with no viable spec for mages in any aspect of PvE, if that is a solution for you then kudos dude.

Fire aoe or single target sustain is middle of the pack, even heroic raid parses show that fire isn't far ahead of any (viable - added this just for you fruitcake) class, in mythic that is going to be even more so the case, with longer fights.

So in summary, other caster classes need to be brought up, otherwise you might as well just delete all casters from this game, yes?

[Danuel]

Mage nerfs? In what world do you living?

[Pandacally]

Or you can just wait and see how the changes effect your class/spec come Tuesday because sims aren't always accurate?

Playing mage since 11 years, if arcane does not outperform fire on a stand-still single target fight by at least 20%, it is useless.
Real raid encounters get always more movement, more dmg avoidance, more targets than any simulation can adjust for. It's a nice tool but thats pretty much it.

[arandan]

If we are discussing spec disparity - it is always going to exist, even if it's as small as 1%.
Personally I've had to endure being forced into arcane for waaaay too long, I'd be happy to see that spec below fire or frost for the whole expansion.

[TenebrusDH]

Playing mage since 11 years, if arcane does not outperform fire on a stand-still single target fight by at least 20%, it is useless.
Real raid encounters get always more movement, more dmg avoidance, more targets than any simulation can adjust for. It's a nice tool but thats pretty much it.

So, sims are a nice tool... so I say again, why don't you wait til the hotfixes are actually applied so you can test them, instead of going straight to bitching about "fire being overpowered and not being nerf'

[The Archmage]

Playing mage since 11 years, if arcane does not outperform fire on a stand-still single target fight by at least 20%, it is useless.
Real raid encounters get always more movement, more dmg avoidance, more targets than any simulation can adjust for. It's a nice tool but thats pretty much it.

This has been historically true, yet i don't expect it to be anymore in the future.

Fire always had best or next to best AoE between all specs, while Arcane was relegated to absolute garbage to any fight where any sort of AoE was involved (hence the costant swapping amongst the 2 specs during the same raid).

This, for the first time, is something that Blizzard has addressed, and apparently with good success. Arcane is now slightly superior in single target and has the same AoE capabilities (if not even slightly superior), but is a little more penalized when heavy movement is involved.

[Sylfaine]

Doesn'tchange the fact fire mage is miles aways from most of the spec in boe aoe and mono.

[Doffen]

We get cauterizing blink nerf.

Thats our nerf

And, if you see on logs, its not really op, its good indeed, but its not outshining. Shadow priests are well represented as well up there, rest is melee roflstomp wich is above fire mage. That warlocks are so bad atm is not our fault, and they get heavily buffed now.

And, frost and arcane buffs come tuesday/wednesday.

(blink nerf on ptr, not next maintance)

[Pandacally]

Doesn'tchange the fact fire mage is miles aways from most of the spec in boe aoe and mono.

Yes. People always bring the same arguments:

A) But other classes/melees are also OP
B) If fire is not OP, we have nothing left

towards A: Sure, but melees are not ranged and they compete with each other similiar to how casters compete with each other; if rogue, war, dk, dh, retri or melee sham are all above caster dps, it does not matter as much, because they compete with each other and not with casters.
For that, we have boss mechanics etc. to make sure that casters are still needed in raids

towards B: fire mages and MM hunters are on top within their "ranged dps" tier, they do everything better while being significantly easier to play, and this needs no be adjusted. It is easier to nerf 2 speccs to be on par with the others than to bring up/buff the other 7 speecs to be on par with the top 2. That is just a fact.

[arandan]

Yes. People always bring the same arguments:

A) But other classes/melees are also OP
B) If fire is not OP, we have nothing left

towards A: Sure, but melees are not ranged and they compete with each other similiar to how casters compete with each other; if rogue, war, dk, dh, retri or melee sham are all above caster dps, it does not matter as much, because they compete with each other and not with casters.
For that, we have boss mechanics etc. to make sure that casters are still needed in raids

towards B: fire mages and MM hunters are on top within their "ranged dps" tier, they do everything better while being significantly easier to play, and this needs no be adjusted. It is easier to nerf 2 speccs to be on par with the others than to bring up/buff the other 7 speecs to be on par with the top 2. That is just a fact.

yeah fruitcake, it is not as easy as you think it is.
nerf fire to sit below arcane on single target even on movement heavy raids, you nerf it into oblivion in any other form of pve, where mages are far from 'overpowered'.
when balancing specs you need to look at the whole picture - everything that consists of pve endgame - and weight at against every other class and spec in the game.

it is far easier to rebalance those few underperforming caster specs than to nerf the only viable atm into uselessness, because then you might as well bring hunters and melee into everything and be done with it.

Infracted.

[Pandacally]

yeah fruitcake, it is not as easy as you think it is.
nerf fire to sit below arcane on single target even on movement heavy raids, you nerf it into oblivion in any other form of pve, where mages are far from 'overpowered'.
when balancing specs you need to look at the whole picture - everything that consists of pve endgame - and weight at against every other class and spec in the game.

it is far easier to rebalance those few underperforming caster specs than to nerf the only viable atm into uselessness, because then you might as well bring hunters and melee into everything and be done with it.

So why would they bring hunters if they'd be on par with all other ranged dps?
It is clear that if you nerf fire, you also need to nerf hunter. I don't mind if they rather choose to bring up the other 7 ranged dps speccs.

And the only "endgame" that counts are mythic+ dungeons and hc/mythic raids.
fire mages and hunters are completely overpowered for these, just because you call them "viable" does not distract from that fact. Moonkin is "viable", you can bring him and he does decently. However, you'd rather have a roflcopter fire mage or hunter, because overpowered is always better, right?

[Statix]

Fire AOE is over the top? What? Compared to certain other ranged specs Fire might be good at AOE, but compare them to Hunters and melee, and they're nothing.

Can someone show me a Fire Mage on top of the damage meter in Mythic AOE?

[Deleted]

Cry more please! Shouting, kicking and screaming like a kid that just lost his candy about one spec is not the way forward. The shadow priests on my guild are doing very well, every lock spec got buffed and moonkins have always been very gear dependent.

I think you should wait till the new hot fixes are implemented. Why have you singled out mages? There are other specs above us.

[Deleted]

We're not even SSS tier and people are already screaming for nerfs? the other two specs need to be brought up to the level of fire idk why plebs always crying for nerfs when their experience is prob based around low tier raiding

[Deleted]

Frost has always been bad business for PvE but wanting ot nerf fire because arcane is garbage? That's just, I mean, I'm speechless.

[ssviolett]

You are probably still living in WoD. Fire is far away from top - rogues, ferals, warriors, hunters, dhs are all above us.
Fire AOE - lolwut? We have just one spell - Living Bomb with long CD - that's all AOE we actually have ... well and somewhat average cleave due to Ignite.
I'd say Fire mages should be even buffed - if not ST, but AOE at least. Retarded Aftershocks should definitely hit for full Flamestrike power.

[Milin]

I am absolutely surprised that fire did not get a nerf.

Their performance is over the top in single target and AoE, as well as in movement heavy fights. Even their burst potential is better than most classes.
If you compare this to what frost or arcane can bring, even after the buffs, I wonder if blizzard wants all mages to be fire?

So far, the "hotfix" balance patch mostly hit DHs and Monks AoE, and shadow and MS warri single target, but they really need to bring down MM hunter, fire mage and maybe some rogue speccs.

If you look at the raid environment (7/7 hc so far), it is plain stupid that elemental shaman and arcane/frost mage as well as most warlock speccs get to eat shit, trying to do dps when every encounter has little ramp-up time, burst windows and tons of movement, and then get shit on in dps by fire mages and hunters, where the latter only need to find 2 buttons.
Fire mages are also way to easy, but not as bad as hunters.

You wanna talk about mythic+ dungeons? Then delete frost immediatly. And if you are arcane, have fun relying on your tank to do crazy pull strats so you get some decent aoe off, because single target you are shit. And yeah, have fun sitting down drinking after every trash pack.
Oh yeah and fire, just hit that one button living bomb, will do enough.

Srsly either nerf the shit out of fire or give frost/arcane some better buffs.
The fairer option would be to nerf fire mages and hunters, so that all range speccs would be equally good/bad.

/rage over

Fire is not over-the-top in single target. It's in the top 5 on sims (not always accurate).

It's not that Blizzard wants all mages to be fire, otherwise they would remove frost and arcane from the game.

It's nice that you enjoy making the game harder on yourself and raid groups by wanting to nerf any spec that is above your own.

Seriously, this thread needs to be deleted simply for stupidity by the OP.

[Kazuchika]

Seriously, this thread needs to be deleted simply for stupidity by the OP.

If the mods actually deleted threads based on the stupidity of their opening posts this site would have less than 100 threads on it.

OP needs to git gud