Heroic EN ready but guild isn't ?

[Flurryfang]

Some guys in here should really either leave their guild or relax a little bit with their elitism. There is always going to be good and bad players in guild, unless you do regular cleansings, so relax and enjoy the content. Just because the base gear is not an upgrade for you, you can still get warforged/titanforged and by helping people worse then you, you might get some friends who admire you In my guild we have an outlaw rogue, who does some insane dps compared to the rest, but he still plays with us because he enjoys the guild and the guild run Sure, he does some HC pugs in the offdays, but he still comes back.

You should ask yourself a simple question: Are you willing to leave your "bad" guild in exchange for a guild, which does better progress and matches your lvl of play? If not, then cool down and try to enjoy the fact, that you are one of the best players in your guild

[Deleted]

I mean, I am not trying to be cutting edge top 10 or even top 500 guild.

But when I take 4 hours out of my life twice a week to sit down with people who just want to fuck off?

Some players are fine with it. You aren't - so you moved on.

Fair enough - the only real issue was you failing at picking the right guild to begin with.

[Valech]

Do you feel the difference in social aspects because it is not a club of friends yet? Or is the guild filled with people who you don't deem worthy of friendship? If it is the latter.. you know you can have both right? Just keep looking

I have a pretty good grasp of how people are, at least how they behave ingame. I rarely am wrong if I claim that person x will leave the raid for a better guild or person y will flame if he doesn´t get an item. So I can say with confidence, that, except for some obligatory exceptions of course, this new guild has many rather skilled but toxic players. They do not understand why one might fail twice for the same reason and I am pretty sure each single one would name himself if asked who the mvp was.
I know that there are rare gems, that are social and successful in raiding but I am playing on a small server (despite it being merged with 3 other servers) with only few progression oriented guilds and I do not wish to servetransfer again. I´ll just stick with the guild and act like I would with unpleasant associates - professional.

[Vaelorian]

This.

I'm very open about not wanting to do hardcore progression, but a lot of players won't openly say "im fine with us not being the best in the universe" because they fear losing people. Bit silly, theres plenty of people out there who accept lower progression for a more relaxed atmosphere.

I'd rather lose better players who were pushy than nub players who were nice. Everyones got their thing they like and either way its fine.

I agree wholeheartedly. I want players in my guild that I find it fun to play with. Which means that everyone of them should feel exactly how I do in terms of what I find fun in the game. If this is the case then great things may happen in terms of experience. If you don't want to progress hard then don't advertise yourself as such. Who is fooling who here? You're going to have a bad time if you lie to yourself.

I may not agree with a lot you say or how you say it Injin, but atleast you are honest to yourself and your guild apparantly.

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If not, then cool down and try to enjoy the fact, that you are one of the best players in your guild

Is it not really how it works. If I look back at my own experience (hardcore raider) I would be unable to relax or cope with a guild filled with people who would not take the game as serious as I did.
I would mind how many wipes it took to kill a boss. I would not be happy if we wiped time and again to bosses we downed before.
You can accept it for a time or just accept it. But after a certain point you simply cannot go on. Your "true nature" will emerge and you will look for other guilds.

Is it not the same with relationships really?
First you are in love with that person. You really like everything about it. It is all new. Then as time goes on, you find yourself being annoyed at certain things.
Some people get divorced/seperated. Some people stay in the relationships and hate it, but stay anyway. And some people can find it in themselves to truly accept the others "differences".

So with guilds it is pretty much the same. I ended up leaving my guild to form my own one. Best decision ever

[Deleted]

I agree wholeheartedly. I want players in my guild that I find it fun to play with. Which means that everyone of them should feel exactly how I do in terms of what I find fun in the game. If this is the case then great things may happen in terms of experience. If you don't want to progress hard then don't advertise yourself as such. Who is fooling who here? You're going to have a bad time if you lie to yourself.

I may not agree with a lot you say or how you say it Injin, but atleast you are honest to yourself and your guild apparantly.

Actually had a minor split during mop because of my attitude - we wound up with a great crew who wanted to do hardcore raiding and were capable of it. After them trying to set it up without bothering to ask me and bringing in some racist tool who could play well etc there was a bit of a bust up after I kicked him for being a prick. The guys were of a mind that we should put up with assholery if it meant more progress. I wasn't.

I just gave them 30 grand and wished them well with their new guild, then rebuilt the way I like it.

[Felixon]

I really don't care if people are sympathetic or not.

The point I am trying to make to the other poster is: If you personally attack someone for something, you should first make sure your shit doesn't stink.

Yet again you see no difference between the arguments of the other people and an attack.You are the one,who can't tolerate the opinions of the other people,and since you lack the arguments,as you do in this case,you find,that the best way how to prove your point, is by throwing some childish offenses,to hide your own insecurities.

[Veshx]

If not, then cool down and try to enjoy the fact, that you are one of the best players in your guild

Alot of people may like being the best at something.

But alot of other people, myself included do not.

Being the best at something means there is nothing to works towards. Nothing new to learn.

I for one, love working towards something, and LOVE learning new things.

[Deleted]

If they did not know that, they should not be in a management position. And if they know, they accept it.
So instead I would make a topic on your guildforum and explain that you have some reservations concerning the 30 people mode. And that seeing as your team sorta has 20 pretty decent guys and 10 not so decent guys, this plan would make a difference in terms of enjoyment.

Then as the chaos surrounding your question will pick up momentum as everyone of those underperformers are feeling as if THEY are responsible for that post.. will make responses and situations where you fucked up or had bad dps that ONE time. Or that they would threaten to leave the guild (which is actually what a guild would want) but management is too scared to see who would be left after the exodus of bads... Because usually baddies have a few well performing buddies who the guild does not want to lose...

oh no, but I love other people. I don't want chaos :3
maybe they realize that themselves or don't come to heroic raiding

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Do the same was he did. We cleared normal with 30 and we cutting now to HC. So ppl will still gear up in normal raid and mythic dungeons and the best geared will start HC progress!

That is a good idea. I will talk to the guild leaders and maybe point it out and imply said shortcoming

[Veshx]

Yet again you see no difference between the arguments of the other people and an attack.You are the one,who can't tolerate the opinions of the other people,and since you lack the arguments,as you do in this case,you find,that the best way how to prove your point, is by throwing some childish offenses,to hide your own insecurities.

I mean no. Because 1st I didn't read the novel you wrote about me, I read the 1st line and saw that you were so fixated on attacking me, so I fired back.
also, ignoring/reporting every post you make about me from here on out.

[Flurryfang]

I agree wholeheartedly. I want players in my guild that I find it fun to play with. Which means that everyone of them should feel exactly how I do in terms of what I find fun in the game. If this is the case then great things may happen in terms of experience. If you don't want to progress hard then don't advertise yourself as such. Who is fooling who here? You're going to have a bad time if you lie to yourself.

I may not agree with a lot you say or how you say it Injin, but atleast you are honest to yourself and your guild apparantly.

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Is it not really how it works. If I look back at my own experience (hardcore raider) I would be unable to relax or cope with a guild filled with people who would not take the game as serious as I did.
I would mind how many wipes it took to kill a boss. I would not be happy if we wiped time and again to bosses we downed before.
You can accept it for a time or just accept it. But after a certain point you simply cannot go on. Your "true nature" will emerge and you will look for other guilds.

Is it not the same with relationships really?
First you are in love with that person. You really like everything about it. It is all new. Then as time goes on, you find yourself being annoyed at certain things.
Some people get divorced/seperated. Some people stay in the relationships and hate it, but stay anyway. And some people can find it in themselves to truly accept the others "differences".

So with guilds it is pretty much the same. I ended up leaving my guild to form my own one. Best decision ever

That depends on what terms you accepted when you joined the guild If you have entered a guild, which promised to aim high and always try their absolute best, then i would understand OP. Having a guild go against their recruitment prosmise is a very good reason to leave or to only do pugs with higher skilled people.

But if OP joined a guild, who was "just" a raiding guild looking for more players to fill their roster, then you can not really complain much about the guilds tempo in raids. They promised nothing other then to raid and they are fufilling that promise. If the people in the raid simply does not have the ability to go into heroic raiding, then that is just a fact you have to accept. Asking for people to rise to a skill lvl, which they do not strive for, is simply wrong.

I applaud you for doing the right thing and starting your own guild Hopefully you are upholding a skill lvl, which you are satisfied with

[Vaelorian]

Actually had a minor split during mop because of my attitude - we wound up with a great crew who wanted to do hardcore raiding and were capable of it. After them trying to set it up without bothering to ask me and bringing in some racist tool who could play well etc there was a bit of a bust up after I kicked him for being a prick. The guys were of a mind that we should put up with assholery if it meant more progress. I wasn't.

I just gave them 30 grand and wished them well with their new guild, then rebuilt the way I like it.

Honestly, to each their own.... but I would never put up with assholes. I don't know who thinks that with progress comes assholery? I see that comment alot on these boards or ingame. It even went as far as when first I was 5th on my server and my guild was regarded as one of those proper nice guilds. Then after 3 years or so we became 1st. Suddenly we were regarded as elitist assholes. But my recruitment never changed. I just made the guild more efficient internally. Everyone was an adult and everyone regarded my one rule as something they wanted to uphold (treat non guildies as if they were your guildies or something similar). So just because we were 1st meant that we were elitist assholes. Really?

On my first server you had this one guild that progressed really well. And it was filled with assholes. Ofcourse the guild would be collapsing every other month but then remade etc. It was great that this guild existed. Every asshole flocked to that guild. People who were shunned on the server in terms of PUGS or just banned on a regular basis for being assholes were welcomed there as long as they were skilled. Strangely enough that worked.

But the other guilds just had decent people, mostly.

[Flurryfang]

Alot of people may like being the best at something.

But alot of other people, myself included do not.

Being the best at something means there is nothing to works towards. Nothing new to learn.

I for one, love working towards something, and LOVE learning new things.

I did not say anything about being the absolute best at something, only the best among some.

Just because you are the best in your guild/raid, does not stop you from trying to be even better. Sure, it helps to compete with someone of the same class, but you can rarely get that situation without being in a top-end mythic guild I might be the best assa rogue in my guild, but that does not stop me from reading up on my class and try new things to improve my play-style

So again, has really nothing to do with being content with a raiding guild, where you are the best.

[Vaelorian]

That depends on what terms you accepted when you joined the guild If you have entered a guild, which promised to aim high and always try their absolute best, then i would understand OP. Having a guild go against their recruitment prosmise is a very good reason to leave or to only do pugs with higher skilled people.

But if OP joined a guild, who was "just" a raiding guild looking for more players to fill their roster, then you can not really complain much about the guilds tempo in raids. They promised nothing other then to raid and they are fufilling that promise. If the people in the raid simply does not have the ability to go into heroic raiding, then that is just a fact you have to accept. Asking for people to rise to a skill lvl, which they do not strive for, is simply wrong.

I applaud you for doing the right thing and starting your own guild Hopefully you are upholding a skill lvl, which you are satisfied with

Well I quit being GM after Firelands. The guild then disbanded (not officially). Real life got the better of me. Also the entire journey of getting where I wanted to be was a LONG one. But you cannot expect to have a guild full of people who want to progress the same as you over night. You try but you end up with a mix, (good and bads).

Long story short: I started out in karazhan with my new guild. Thought at that time we were pretty "hardcore". But looking back I had no notion of what hardcore really was. My guild's message back then screamed that we were hoping to someday be at a hardcore level but that we weren't at the time. So after much trial and error... I ended up in Cataclysm with a team unlike I ever had. Progress was insane. Spirits were high. The only thing that I would have to do next would be to go into the PTR and get raids going there. But it never came to that. So rank 175 was the max I ever hit. Still proud of that.

[Cerus]

I am in no organisational position to make that decision. I agree with you that 30 man raids are annoying. I would love to raid as 20 man, but we are no pro guild anyways.

I could bring it to the guilds leader attention that some people are heavily underperforming though

I'd simply remind them that flex exists for this very reason. No longer are you required to have exactly 10 or 25 players. 2/4/9 is ideal so you have plenty to work with. They gotta decide what's worse - losing most of their best players because they won't bench the bad ones or losing the bad ones.

[xStevooo]

Just stepped into EN without raiding since 4.3.

We didnt flask/food/pot and we got Xavius within an hour, took Nythendra on heroic 2nd attempt. We are around ilvl 845'ish

[Otimus]

someone who wipes to puggable faceroll content is telling me where I belong.

k adding you to the ignore list and yet again: get out of my face with this casual bullshit.

Look at the way you're talking. Are you surprised people are giving you shit here? You're coming off massively abrasive, either intentionally or otherwise, and it's making people pre-judge you as having an adversarial attitude and a superiority complex, again, wrongly or rightly, but you really can't be surprised that people are giving you shit when you say things like that. You're loudly insulting people and levels of content on the board, dude. It's basically like you're asking for a fight.

[shonist]

I had a similar situation, until I left.

They were a "chill friendly drama free guild". It was like that for the year I was in there, and I suspect it will continue to be like that, not going to dog on them.

I joined my friend on the same server and downed 7/7 Normal(1 shot everything, 3 shot xavius) 1/7 Heroic with significant progress on Ursoc and the Eye boss.
The next night is my former guilds raid night. we get in, 1 shot 1st boss and then it derails on Ursoc. We wipe at least 5 times. 5 times on NORMAL URSOC. I have already pugged (apart from my friends guild) Normal Ursoc and 1 shot that boss. And then when I try to give the guild some constructive critisim on where to position him, what to do, where to run etc etc. I am met with being completely ignored, wiping another 3 times. Because y'know, fuck the guy who has already done this boss, who decided to come tonight even though I am already saved to the whole instance and help his guild down him. So I drop raid and ask the GM of my friends guild if I have spot, he said yes you have a spot, and I gquit right there and join my friends guild.

It also didn't help that the raid leader didn't watch ANY strats and neither did 90% of the people who came to raid, oh which by the way was any 110 that was on. The GM/RL literally invites ANY 110 to the raid regardless of ilvl/knowledge/class/spec etc etc.

When I quit the guild I was pmed by someone in the guild all pissed off as to why I left. So I told her, and was met by her PMSing at me. So I called her out, barely pulling 100k as a fire mage, calling her out on why she doesn't clear trash and just waits for the guild to kill it and then moves up an afks like 50yards behind us until we move on, and continues to do it.

Don't get me wrong, alot of people in that guild were some awesome people and very friendly, but this is my time you are wasting now. I don't like it when my time is wasted, and especially to easy stuff like that.

wiping 5 times on ursoc nomral is serious

[Flaks]

I was going to try raiding but then I saw that I was pulling 90k as an ilvl 838 arms warrior pretty consistently. So I'm not going to burden my guild and just go ahead and tank mythics because at least I still have map awareness even if my dps sucks.

[Jewsco]

Wow, WoD did really make fuckers lazy.

Read the post in which I said: create a community amongst your guild where herbalist picks flowers->sends flowers to alchemist->make flasks/pots. etc etc for every thing else. Y'know, shit you did back in Vanilla/BC when gold was harder to make.

And re-learn their class? Most of the class changes happened in the pre-patch, which came out more than a month before Legion, let alone raids did. If it takes you that long to re-learn how to push some buttons, then you might want go do something else.

So you think after years of not picking flowers etc... For ones guild people are now going to go back to doing that? If anything the last few expansions with near all the guild perks gone and group finder added the game has been killing off the need for guilds as one could do all that solo. Now they made an expansion where we need a guild again and guess what most players/guilds by no means were ready for this.

As for getting to know ones class. Did you not get extra spells/attacks with your artifact weapon as you leveled it? Did not some of the points put into it change how some moves worked? Did we have that in prepatch? Did we have that while leveling? No, look at Demon hunters they literally had two of thier talents opened up during prepatch. So how would players now how to use them now? Nice try though but be nice if you knew what you were ranting about.

[Veshx]

So you think after years of not picking flowers etc... For ones guild people are now going to go back to doing that? If anything the last few expansions with near all the guild perks gone and group finder added the game has been killing off the need for guilds as one could do all that solo. Now they made an expansion where we need a guild again and guess what most players/guilds by no means were ready for this.

As for getting to know ones class. Did you not get extra spells/attacks with your artifact weapon as you leveled it? Did not some of the points put into it change how some moves worked? Did we have that in prepatch? Did we have that while leveling? No, look at Demon hunters they literally had two of thier talents opened up during prepatch. So how would players now how to use them now? Nice try though but be nice if you knew what you were ranting about.

Oh I am so sorry. 3 weeks. If it takes you 3 weeks to re-learn how to play your character then you are doing something wrong.
Also, rotations were changed, but they didn't get any harder, in fact they got a hell of a lot easier. Nice try though. sneaky sneaky.