Syria conflict: UN suspends all aid after convoy hit

[caervek]

https://twitter.com/WarfareWW/status/780002885228781572

US Gen. Danford, CJCS: "Right now… for us to control all of the airspace in Syria would require us to go to war against Syria and Russia"

Thank good there is an adult in the room lol.

[Skroe]

Man..., some funny guys asking funny questions at the senate committee on armed forces.

https://twitter.com/WarfareWW/status/780002885228781572

Doubtful. If the US ordered Russia out of Syrian airspace prior to a bombing campaign against Assad, Russia would know it's role and comply after some kind of face saving arrangement (because that kind of thing is important to Russians and their pets). It does not remotely have the military power (much less air power) to take on the United States. Not over Syria. Not anywhere. Even in Syria, Putin's 12 Su-34s and 8 Su-35s are hysterically outnumbered (nevermind quality) by what the US has based just in Turkey. The cost wouldn't be worth the award. Russia would declare victory and walk away. Probably after making it look like Assad fucked Russia.

Danford's statement represents the position of his boss - Obama and Susan Rice, who want to pretend Syria isn't a thing - and the military's general reluctance to spend any resources in Syria. Once again, they're far more concerned with modernization, Asia-Pacific and Europe, in that order, than a headline grabbing but ultimately inconsequential shitstorm. I would not be confident that President Hillary, no friend to Russia, and with recent personal grievances against the War Criminal Vladmir Putin, won't go for a more muscular approach just to exploit Russian overreach. The War Criminal Vladmir Putin's tactics only work so long as American leadership is feckless.

I'm not interested in a military campaign in Syria. It would be bad policy. But that said, the next President needs to get back to the task on hand, and bloody up and humble the Russians as much as possible in Syria before moving on to other ways to fuck with them.

[caervek]

Doubtful. If the US ordered Russia out of Syrian airspace prior to a bombing campaign against Assad, Russia would know it's role and comply after some kind of face saving arrangement (because that kind of thing is important to Russians and their pets).

Or maybe they would just laugh as the US would never be dumb enough to try and enforce such an empty threat. Let's not forget that Russia are operating in Syria at the request of the legitimate government, the US are operating in Syria against the wishes of the legitimate government but using some untested legal grey area to justify their actions.

There is no way the US is going to initiate a conflict in Russia when they don't even have UN backing for action in Syria and haven't fully established legality anyway.

I'm not interested in a military campaign in Syria. It would be bad policy. But that said, the next President needs to get back to the task on hand, and bloody up and humble the Russians as much as possible in Syria before moving on to other ways to fuck with them.

It would be a real shame if after all the work Obama did to try and repair the USA's image the next president just took it straight back to global bully status

[Deleted]

So hold on Skroe. You would declare war to Russia over Syria?

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Or maybe they would just laugh as the US would never be dumb enough to try and enforce such an empty threat. Let's not forget that Russia are operating in Syria at the request of the legitimate government, the US are operating in Syria against the wishes of the legitimate government but using some untested legal grey area to justify their actions.

There is no way the US is going to initiate a conflict in Russia when they don't even have UN backing for action in Syria and haven't fully established legality anyway.




It would be a real shame if after all the work Obama did to try and repair the USA's image the next president just took it straight back to global bully status

Well in fairness... not having legal status backing their actions did not stop them before

[Independent voter]

Today's news on the Russian bombing of the Syrian Sunnis in Aleppo, the city where the UN relief convoy was heading with food and medicine before the Russians bombed the relief convoy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...-idUSKCN11W0QZ

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said dozens of air strikes hit the rebel-held half of the divided city, the target of a fresh offensive announced by the Syrian army on Thursday.

Aleppo has become the main battle ground of a conflict now in its sixth year. Capturing rebel districts of Syria's largest city, where more than 250,000 civilians are trapped, would mark the biggest victory of the civil war for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces.

Bebars Mishal, a civil defense worker in rebel-held Aleppo, said the bombardment continued until 6 a.m. (0300 GMT).

"It's the same situation. Especially at night, the bombardment intensifies, it becomes more violent, using all kinds of weapons, phosphorous and napalm and cluster bombs," Mishal told Reuters.

"Now, there's just the helicopter, and God only knows where it will bomb. God knows which building will collapse," he said.

The Observatory said it had documented the deaths of 237 people, including 38 children, from air strikes on Aleppo city and the surrounding countryside since last Monday when the ceasefire ended. Of those documented deaths, 162 were in rebel-held east Aleppo city.

Civil defense workers say about 400 people have died in the past week in the rebel-held parts of the city and surrounding countryside.

Rescue efforts have been severely hampered because bomb damage has made roads impassable and because civil defense centers and rescue equipment have been destroyed in raids.

[Skroe]

So hold on Skroe. You would declare war to Russia over Syria?

No. Of course not. The War Criminal Vladmir Putin is a coward. His entire plan of action in Syria (and elsewhere) hinges on the assumption that the US will not spend resources (military, political, economic, and otherwise) beyond the absolute minimum, giving him tremendous berth. He will only engage his policy so long as it's risk to Russia are low. Right now, they are.

The instant that assumption is proven untrue, his entire stratagem collapses. Russia has neither the wealth, manpower, technology nor will to be engaged in a cold conflict where the US is actually using the tools at it's disposal. Even mild US messing with Russia in Syria until late 2013 was tremendously beneficial to US interests. Pre-Ukraine, the understaffed and under-resourced Russian foreign ministry became pretty much a single agency, and that issue was Syira, allowing the US to press its advantage in Central Asia and Asia-Pacific without Russian objection.

And then Obama set a redline, had it blow up in his face, and everything went to shit.

The War Criminal Vladmir Putin had Obama figured out years ago. Obama really likes being the President who talks about the Middle Class. But he doesn't give two fucks about the other half of the job, which has to worry and deal with things like the Middle East, the moment it takes any amount of energy and resources. "Obama wont' do shit", in his second term, has ultimately proven to be entirely the case.

But in four months Obama is gone and is never coming back, and everything changes. Change the conditions for Russian action, and you'll see Russian action cease.

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Or maybe they would just laugh as the US would never be dumb enough to try and enforce such an empty threat. Let's not forget that Russia are operating in Syria at the request of the legitimate government, the US are operating in Syria against the wishes of the legitimate government but using some untested legal grey area to justify their actions.

There is no way the US is going to initiate a conflict in Russia when they don't even have UN backing for action in Syria and haven't fully established legality anyway.
(

It would not be am empty threat and the US has done such things to Russia before.

And the US consider's Assad's government illegitimate.

And since when has UN backing mattered for anything?

It would be a real shame if after all the work Obama did to try and repair the USA's image the next president just took it straight back to global bully status

HA! Man this is so positively European of you, it's almost quaint. You may take that as a compliment. It's not. It's an indictment.

As an American who voted for Obama in 2008 in large part because of this, because America's global perception concerned me, let me say unequivocally:

Fuck. This. Shit.

Really. If there is one crackwhore of an idea that needs to be strangled to death, it's this delusion that "national image" gets you so much as a bucket of piss in international relations. It has enabled Obama to move America's agenda forward so little. Allies and enemies alike had to be cajoled and or threatened to cooperate on even the most routine of matters. Electorates across the world (particularly Europe) no longer protesting the US every March 19th helped the US in precisely zero ways. Restored standing has in the most marginal sense, enhanced the American ability to press global policy.

Moral authority does matter. National image does matter. But only as a means to an end. Only as a tool in the larger toolset of things that allow the US to press it's agenda. Their value is in their occasional situational utility. When they aren't useful, they don't matter.

The fact is, China's actions, Russia's actions and by comparison the US's actions, have emphatically demonstrated the hollowness of that. China and Russia are global rogues, trampling international norms... and have consequently advanced their agendas, at our expensive, in the last three years, in ways that are becoming dangerous to the United States and will be responded to in years ahead.

The US should be respected as a consequence of it's positive actions. But it should also be a little and despised as a consequence of it's negative ones. By friend and foe alike. The President of the United States being called the "son of a whore" is what happens when the fear is no longer there and replaced by the Cool Cat, the likable and friendly Barry O., Youtube comedy star who doesn't believe in consequences. Everybody knows, America under Obama, won't do shit.

I would rather my country be perceived from time to time, as a global bully... as a violent and dangerous hegemon... as reckless and paranoid and disruptive... than as the doormat Obama's second term has made it. Powerful countries should walk that very narrow line - helpful and softspoken, but also ready to break every bone another country has and take everything it holds dear away from it. That is power. That is what the US has. That is what US leadership refuses to exercise because it doesn't care.

You can take to the bank that sometime in the next 15 years the US is going to bomb into oblivion some shit hole corner of the human race to relatively high domestic approval ratings but gutter global approval ratings. And you know what? From time to time that's perfectly acceptable. It's a friendly reminder of the consequences of crossing the order the United States built. The run up to the Iraq War was far from the United States' proudest moment behaviorally. But - and keep in mind the many occasions I have expressed my adoration and deep respect and friendship for Europe and NATO - I hope Europeans never forget that the US has the power to act unilaterally in ways Europe cannot, and in choosing to be a passive non-helper or active obstructionist the next time the US and Europe disagree, they choose the former.

[zmp]

War Criminal Putin is a better War Criminal than War Criminal Obama.

[caervek]

Today's news on the Russian bombing of the Syrian Sunnis in Aleppo, the city where the UN relief convoy was heading with food and medicine before [it was attacked by unknown forces].

Fixed that for you

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said

Always love that guys stories, they never disappoint.

all kinds of weapons, phosphorous and napalm and cluster bombs

XD told ya lol.

[zmp]

Today's news on the US' bombing of the Syrian Sunnis in Aleppo, the city where the UN relief convoy was heading with food and medicine before the US bombed the relief convoy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...-idUSKCN11W0QZ

The damn US at it again. Can't they just stick with calculated objectives instead of mistakes.

[Crispin]

The convoy was hit after US attacked the Syrian outpost. Why would anyone keep their end of the deal after the other side shows such blatant want for war? And it isn't even confirmed Russia hit it. They themselves deny responsibility, and from some footage that is surfacing on the net it looks like it was hit by an American Hellfire missile.

Also I explained why the US attack couldn't be an accident. But you don't try to explain why it was, just say it is so because it is so.

Convenient isnt it, I'm guessing it's the same people who released the "sat photo" of a ukranian supersized jet taking down mh17, sorry but there's no reason to trust Russia whenever they say they did or did not do something, not when it comes to little green men, mh17 or syria, I guess the west could just go on a "wasnt us /dog eyes" strategy aswell, and deny hitting the syrian army, yet we dont, we look like absolute idiots doing it, yet conspiracy nutjobs like you somehow prefers if it was done on purpose because EVIL WEST!

If they really wanted to stop the truce, there would have been alot of far smarter ways to do it, for example keep letting Syria and Russia bomb throughout the truce and just stop trying to re-negotiate.

And not sure why you seem to think that it's ok hitting a first aid convoy, because the western coalition accidently hit syrian soldiers.

[caervek]

Out of interest have any photos surfaced yet that actually look like the convoy was hit by an airstrike? All that seems to have been shown by the MSM so far are pictures of burnt out trucks with bullet-holes from small arms fire.

I mean I know that it hasn't been confirmed it was an airstrike yet but if the US is jumping up and down about it I would expect some photo evidence by now :S

[Crispin]

Here's some pictures here and a video, I'm no expert on what kind of weapons cause what kind of damage whatsoever, but if I were to guess, the bullet holes you mention could be shrapnel?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...yria-us-russia

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...-idUSKCN11P146

But I don't think the west in general is as keen on releasing photo's to sway public opinion as Russia is, and imo it's not much of an issue, since the public arent crime scene (or bomb scene in this case) experts, just look at how much conspiracy nonsense came out of the 9/11 videos and photos.

[caervek]

Here's some pictures here and a video, I'm no expert on what kind of weapons cause what kind of damage whatsoever, but if I were to guess, the bullet holes you mention could be shrapnel?

You could be right but I would have expected shrapnel from a bomb to cause more damage, I'm no expert either but I don't believe Russia has any smart weapons that can incinerate the cargo of a truck without damaging the structure of the trailer. I mean some of those pics just look like a generic picture of a truck that was stopped by men with guns then torched, I.E this one:

[Deleted]

Convenient isnt it, I'm guessing it's the same people who released the "sat photo" of a ukranian supersized jet taking down mh17, sorry but there's no reason to trust Russia whenever they say they did or did not do something, not when it comes to little green men, mh17 or syria, I guess the west could just go on a "wasnt us /dog eyes" strategy aswell, and deny hitting the syrian army, yet we dont, we look like absolute idiots doing it, yet conspiracy nutjobs like you somehow prefers if it was done on purpose because EVIL WEST!

If they really wanted to stop the truce, there would have been alot of far smarter ways to do it, for example keep letting Syria and Russia bomb throughout the truce and just stop trying to re-negotiate.

And not sure why you seem to think that it's ok hitting a first aid convoy, because the western coalition accidently hit syrian soldiers.

So you can't reasonably argument why it was an accident, even when I explained to you why it is impossible to be an accident. But still insist it was an accident. Also that's a bunch of non-arguments that boil down to ''Russia always lies! I know this because I read so on a free and independent interwebz site!!''. And I never said hitting a first aid convoy was acceptable. I just said why would anyone hold up the ceasefire when it was already broken?

[ParanoiD84]

Today's news on the Russian bombing of the Syrian Sunnis in Aleppo, the city where the UN relief convoy was heading with food and medicine before the Russians bombed the relief convoy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...-idUSKCN11W0QZ

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said dozens of air strikes hit the rebel-held half of the divided city, the target of a fresh offensive announced by the Syrian army on Thursday.

Aleppo has become the main battle ground of a conflict now in its sixth year. Capturing rebel districts of Syria's largest city, where more than 250,000 civilians are trapped, would mark the biggest victory of the civil war for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces.

Bebars Mishal, a civil defense worker in rebel-held Aleppo, said the bombardment continued until 6 a.m. (0300 GMT).

"It's the same situation. Especially at night, the bombardment intensifies, it becomes more violent, using all kinds of weapons, phosphorous and napalm and cluster bombs," Mishal told Reuters.

"Now, there's just the helicopter, and God only knows where it will bomb. God knows which building will collapse," he said.

The Observatory said it had documented the deaths of 237 people, including 38 children, from air strikes on Aleppo city and the surrounding countryside since last Monday when the ceasefire ended. Of those documented deaths, 162 were in rebel-held east Aleppo city.

Civil defense workers say about 400 people have died in the past week in the rebel-held parts of the city and surrounding countryside.

Rescue efforts have been severely hampered because bomb damage has made roads impassable and because civil defense centers and rescue equipment have been destroyed in raids.

It's pretty obvious that it was the Russians and syria bombing the help convoys to.

[Crispin]

How is this related? Or argumentated? Can I dismiss every argument with ''aliens did it'' and a sarcasm emoticon?

You can't honestly believe this was an accident. Deir ez Zor was a prettyx well known outpost, which resisted rebel forces for years. The surveillance and technology available to US makes it impossible for them not to know this. The strike was not one bombshell or salve. It lasted for quite some time, so it wasn't one guys accidental mistake. It was deliberate with nobody trying to interrupt it. Then we also have the rebels launching an attack within minutes of the strike.

It was a calculated attack by the USA, whose only purpose was to break the ceasefire. This is a fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_e...(January_2016)

Here's a picture of the situation of the city from august



It obviously havent resisted rebel forces for years, since the city is split up between everyone including isil.

And exactly which side are the UN aid trucks on? are they the enemy of Syria and Russia?

[Deleted]

It's pretty obvious that it was the Russians and syria bombing the help convoys to.

And if you don't believe this, you're a Putinista.
Wonderful.

[ParanoiD84]

And if you don't believe this, you're a Putinista.
Wonderful.

Putinista that's a new one for me

[Deleted]

Putinista that's a new one for me

*facepalm*

[Shalcker]

http://theduran.com/syrian-mp-syrian...e-deir-ez-zor/

Syrian MP: ‘Syrian intelligence intercepted audio recording between US and ISIS before airstrike on Deir ez-Zor’
Alex Christoforou

Syrian intelligence possesses an audio recording of conversation between Daesh and US military right before American airstrikes on Syrian government troops near Deir ez-Zor.

In an interview with the Al Mayadeen broadcaster, the Speaker of the People’s Council of Syria, Hadiya Khalaf Abbas, made a stunning revelation…Syrian intelligence possesses an audio recording of conversation between Daesh (ISIS/ISIL) terrorists and US military prior to the US coalition airstrikes on Syrian government forces near Deir ez-Zor.

An airstrike that openly aided ISIS in gaining a strategic air base in Syria.

If confirmed, and made public, this would blow the whole US lie about its involvement in Syria out of the water.

It would prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the US is openly communicating and coordinating with ISIS in Syria. It would also show that America’s attack on Syrian forces was no “mistake”, but rather a deliberate attack on a sovereign nation, in order to provide air support to ISIS in Syria.

The Speaker of the People’s Council of Syria said that the details of the recording would be made public later. For now here is what Hadiya Khalaf Abbas said…

“The Syrian Army intercepted a conversation between the Americans and Daesh before the air raid on Deir ez-Zor.”

Sputnik News reports further on what may either be a developing story, or something that will get buried during ongoing ceasefire negotiations.

One thing is for sure…if this recording does exist, it will provide excellent leverage for Syria and Russia, as they continue to expose America’s connection to ISIS and Al Qaeda in Syria.

US warplanes hit Syrian government troops near the eastern city of Deir ez-Zor on September 17, leaving 62 military personnel killed and a hundred wounded. The Pentagon said initially that the airstrike was a mistake and targeted Daesh militants. The head of the Syrian parliament, added during her visit to Iran that after the coalition’s airstrikes on the government troops US military directed terrorists’ attack on the Syrian army.

The attack on government positions put to test a US-Russia brokered nationwide ceasefire that came into being in Syria earlier that week. Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said last Friday it was necessary to separate Daesh terrorists from “moderate” opposition forces in order to salvage the truce.

Britain, Australia and Denmark confirmed their air forces’ participation in the deadly airstrikes.

Well, hopefully if this recording really exists it will be available before elections...