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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mhorrg View Post
    I've always put it down to cross realms.

    WoW was awesome when your server was a community and you only interacted with each other. As more and more cross realm elements were added we lost the community and community is what makes MMOs good.
    This was the exact moment wow "Died". The communities were the best part of the game. Don't get me wrong, i've been around since tbc and have always loved the game bar cataclysm raiding. I've never had a problem and am really enjoying myself. But i find all my fondest memories of the game were back when there were communities on the server. It also deterred from anyone being an idiot from fear of a bad rep and not being taken anywhere.

    Saying that, i use the dungeon finder daily. So it's a bit of a catch 22. Convenience or community.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by nairobi13 View Post
    This was the exact moment wow "Died". The communities were the best part of the game. Don't get me wrong, i've been around since tbc and have always loved the game bar cataclysm raiding. I've never had a problem and am really enjoying myself. But i find all my fondest memories of the game were back when there were communities on the server. It also deterred from anyone being an idiot from fear of a bad rep and not being taken anywhere.

    Saying that, i use the dungeon finder daily. So it's a bit of a catch 22. Convenience or community.
    Yep I will always miss that sense of community that existed back in vanilla. SOOOO many bad things that are happening right now in the game would have just disappeared with the same community..

    Imagine a world with no trolls and no ninjalooters just to begin with. That asshole who quit your mythic +10 in the middle just cause fu, or that idiot QQing all day *puff* gone. Back when people did that kind of thing, the community would exclude them from all kind of content since you actually had to get invited into a group to do anything, that made everyone behave better + it took forever to level another char to 60 so people couldn't just burn a char and make a new one with the added benefit of everyone being more in tune with their character since they only played 1-2 classes. yes you had to sit around in org for an hour to make a 15 man stratholme run but it was worth it at the time

  3. #243
    Deleted
    i dont know - for some reason i have a feeling that quests should be much longer and less frequent, so you have like only one task at a time that takes half an hour or a couple of hours to do, and reward like a much higher amount of exp and better loot.

    i enjoyed artefact quests so much it was so great, i did almost every class/spec for all my 12 chars, just because it felt so refreshing and new - its such a nice feeling doing a big and meaningful task to achieve something you need further on. i dont know how they still hold on to this "go there collect 5" thats done in 5 minutes and reward like 5% of a lvl. its so boring and repetetive.

    also i liked how you had to go back to old vanilla areas and do stuff there.

    the world is so big why dont they keep using it??

    the new zones are detailed thats pretty nice but i think there is just TOO much stuff in a small area - i liked how in vanilla zones you kept running through less crowded areas until you reach the spot you want to go. since wod zones feel like they put as much stuff on a square inch as possible.

    man i just remembered me sneaking through stormwind doing the assassination artefact quest.... that was so freaking awesome and challenging.... i want more of ths PLEASE!

  4. #244
    Also from a Vanilla Player: WoW lost some of its luster for a couple expansions, but Legion is by far the best expansion they've made. It beats Vanilla, it beats Wrath, it beats BC. So many things that have been problems for so long are both fixed and improved. Loving every second of Legion.

  5. #245
    Deleted
    There is no such thing as being a unique snowflake in an MMO, at least not in WoW. And it NEVER was this way.

    You did NOT have the opportunity to significantly differentiate your characters from others of your class. Going as far as saying you'd be "unique on your realm" is downright hilarious, really. You had cookie cutter builds and everyone would spec into those, depending on what you played you had a few points you could've put in some damage reduction or in a PvP talent if you wanted, and THAT WAS IT. Anything else was sub-optimal, there wasn't anything "creative" to do with the talent tree, you could either spec correctly, or you could spec wrong and be shit. There was no such thing as "out of the box".

    If anything, you have more choice with the talents now, a lot of classes have more than 1 viable choice per tier, sometimes it depends on what you're fighting. Guess what, this means you put MORE thought into your talent choices than you did with the old, antiquated system.

    Epics are simple a colour code. It literally doesn't mean anything whatsoever, get over the colours, please.

    The game is harder than it was in Vanilla. End. Of. Story. If you think it's not, you just don't remember or you were really young and everything seems harder then. SO many specs in Vanilla would have 1-2 button rotations. Warlocks would Shadow Bolt spam, Retri Paladins (if anyone even took them to raids...) would just wait on Seal of Command to proc while AAing. Hunters could bind their entire rotation to the mouse wheel and just scroll to win. The only thing harder about raiding back then were the logistics involved in getting 40 people together, if you were not a GM or an officer, the game back then was the easiest it's ever been.

    Artifact weapons are great. You have post max level progression for your character in a way other than pure gear, there are plenty of skins for you to choose from, and at the end of the day, when you're actually playing the game you're not staring at your character anyway.

    Finally, people need to stop conflating "This takes really long and is tedious" with "This is really difficult". Something that takes very long is not necessarily difficult. You know what is difficult ? BRH+6 is difficult. NL+6 or more has Pelters 3 shotting DPS, etc. There you have it folks, difficult, progression oriented 5 man content, where you have to play at your best, use all of your stuns and interrupts and abilities, and not fuck around making mistakes else you miss the timer.

    On the other hand, you had Vanilla where BRD was "hard" because it took 2 fucking hours to do and you'd have to replace leavers, meanwhile you were spamming your 2-3 abilities on like no more than 4 mobs at a time who mostly just auto attacked your tank and cast a spell like once in ages, zzzz.

    /rant
    Last edited by mmoc7feaf5ca98; 2016-09-26 at 01:52 PM.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Relnor View Post
    There is no such thing as being a unique snowflake in an MMO, at least not in WoW. And it NEVER was this way.

    You did NOT have the opportunity to significantly differentiate your characters from others of your class. Going as far as saying you'd be "unique on your realm" is downright hilarious, really. You had cookie cutter builds and everyone would spec into those, depending on what you played you had a few points you could've put in some damage reduction or in a PvP talent if you wanted, and THAT WAS IT. Anything else was sub-optimal, there wasn't anything "creative" to do with the talent tree, you could either spec correctly, or you could spec wrong and be shit. There was no such thing as "out of the box".

    If anything, you have more choice with the talents now, a lot of classes have more than 1 viable choice per tier, sometimes it depends on what you're fighting. Guess what, this means you put MORE thought into your talent choices than you did with the old, antiquated system.

    Epics are simple a colour code. It literally doesn't mean anything whatsoever, get over the colours, please.

    The game is harder than it was in Vanilla. End. Of. Story. If you think it's not, you just don't remember or you were really young and everything seems harder then. SO many specs in Vanilla would have 1-2 button rotations. Warlocks would Shadow Bolt spam, Retri Paladins (if anyone even took them to raids...) would just wait on Seal of Command to proc while AAing. Hunters could bind their entire rotation to the mouse wheel and just scroll to win. The only thing harder about raiding back then were the logistics involved in getting 40 people together, if you were not a GM or an officer, the game back then was the easiest it's ever been.

    Artifact weapons are great. You have post max level progression for your character in a way other than pure gear, there are plenty of skins for you to choose from, and at the end of the day, when you're actually playing the game you're not staring at your character anyway.

    Finally, people need to stop conflating "This takes really long and is tedious" with "This is really difficult". Something that takes very long is not necessarily difficult. You know what is difficult ? BRH+6 is difficult. NL+6 or more has Pelters 3 shotting DPS, etc. There you have it folks, difficult, progression oriented 5 man content, where you have to play at your best, use all of your stuns and interrupts and abilities, and not fuck around making mistakes else you miss the timer.

    On the other hand, you had Vanilla where BRD was "hard" because it took 2 fucking hours to do and you'd have to replace leavers, meanwhile you were spamming your 2-3 abilities on like no more than 4 mobs at a time who mostly just auto attacked your tank and cast a spell like once in ages, zzzz.

    /rant
    You hit the nail on the head on so many points. YOU sound like a vanilla player, OP does not.

  7. #247
    From another Vanilla Player:


    It's just age people. Nothing else. Not your pet gripe with the game. Nothing Blizzard did "killed" WoW.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamander View Post
    Stop being delusional. Its the smallest expansion so far. Even in Mists of Pandaria I felt there was more things to do and explore in the huge awesome world when it was this old, while Legion me and many others are already growing tired of.

    If you really think this expansion is deep and full of content I congratulate you for being able to enjoy the most shallow expansion yet and prey you will still do it in another month from now, even tho I seriously doubt it. Even WoD was more fun still this far in than Legion is sadly. Legion is WoD but garrison missions turned into world quests instead. Sure its better at the start but after doing just a few you have seen it all.
    "I don't like this expansion, you are stupid for liking this expansion"

    You do not know that this is all Legion has coming. there is no possibility that you could, the game isn't even out for 1 month. Do you want them to give us everything at the start so you can blast through it in a few months? WQ = Better and more varied dailies where you can chose which ones to do. Do the ones you want, then stop.
    There's plenty to do. If you do not think there is, then stop playing.



    Back on topic, I do not believe the classes are dumbed down at all, it all pretty much feels the same to me. In terms of complexity, I agree it is less complex is some areas. But I see this as a good thing because it gives you the option of doing the less complex/difficult stuff.

    In the past, it was "you need to find a group and wait around for a normal raid PUG" now its "I click this button, and I can complete the same content as everyone else, just not at the same difficulty". You can chose to do either one.

  9. #249
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyJester View Post
    From another Vanilla Player:


    It's just age people. Nothing else. Not your pet gripe with the game. Nothing Blizzard did "killed" WoW.
    So Blizzard have no fault. Excelent.

    That's how people accept all of this. That mentality...damned. Is like "oh men this is shit, how bad is that...but i prefer that than gen kicked in the nuts with a hammer".

    Again, 2004/2010, just UP subs. 2010/2016, just DOWN subs. The changes did start in ICC patch until today. Since then, only people leaving. Is the game old? Absolutelly. Is a coincidence that the subs just down starting with the changes in 2010? Maybe, who knows.

    But yes, Blizzard have PART of the fault of WoW being "killed"

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by xhisors View Post
    Players Logic:
    BC: TOO HARD BLIZZ NURF IT
    Wotlk: TOO EZ BLIZZ GG
    Cata: TOO HARD BLIZZ NURF IT
    MoP: TO MANY DAILIES BLIZZ STAHP
    WoD: NOTHING TO DO BUT AFK IN GARRISON
    Legion: TO MUCH DAILY REP GRIND AND ARTIFACT GRIND STAHP BLIZZ

    Everyone wonders why this game is how it is.. Only ones to blame is all the people who QQ on forums(here and official) instead of just enjoying the game for what it is, and its honestly not what people make it out to be.
    God GD on the official forums is a fucking cesspool of morons who think their opinion represents the majority. Most things people complain about there I never see people complain about in the actual game.

  11. #251
    As an Alchemist in Vanilla I could transmute Essence of earth into Essence of water, in Legion I can transmute meat into pants... and you're trying to tell me WoW has lost its glory?

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Morbownz View Post
    As an Alchemist in Vanilla I could transmute Essence of earth into Essence of water, in Legion I can transmute meat into pants... and you're trying to tell me WoW has lost its glory?
    Where does one acquire said meat pants?

  13. #253
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvorea View Post
    Oh yes, true.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not everyone had the necessity to pick up cookie cutter talents, some people, like me, like to try new things outside the box.
    I have to agree with Kyrenna 100%

    Lets be honest here, you talk about being better than other Mages...but then you talk about doing a split spec...which affects your effectiveness. You're being a little contradictory here...doing anything but a cookie cutter spec affected your performance...doing a split spec affected your performance even more.

  14. #254
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    I'll say this starting WoW in vanilla as a 12 year old blew my fucking mind. It was my first online game and seeing all the different players that were real people I could interact with was insane. I could barely comprehend it at the time, the vastness of the world, and it being a video game like no other is what wow-ed me and brought me in. BC came around and guess what? That initial excitement I got when I first logged in? It was gone. BC was fun make no mistake but it was just new stuff to do and while I tried to chase that initial high for a few expacs when Cata came around I grew the hell up and took WoW for what it was, a video game. You either play it or you don't.

    Some didn't like the way the game went so they left, others simply got too busy in their life and gave it up, others got bored of the same old. To pin it down to any one reason is tbh retarded. People love to claim ICC was when the downfall started. All I'll say is at the end of wrath you know what else started to rise? MOBAS. They're not the sole reason WoW declined or "died" just that the winds shifted in PC gaming and to deny that is delusional.
    Last edited by Dug; 2016-09-26 at 04:29 PM.

  15. #255
    Deleted
    From "another" vanilla player: 99% of you posting here did not played vanilla since you have no idea what are you talking about.

    Just an answer to a random poster: the decline is not strictly related to WoW, in 2004 you got a small pool of options, now you got plenty, way to many alternatives.
    Games are spammed every week, not counting big guys in the industry, with games like eg. BF4 and all online interactions achi/weapons unlocking.. sounds like an mmo right?.. Shall I count endless console players? Flash games? So.. there are so many options today, is not anymore same industry was in 2004.

  16. #256
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psykee View Post
    Wow have become a solo multiplayer game, a bit sad.
    I guess you haven't played ToR...now that is a *solo* multiplayer game these days.

  17. #257
    Deleted
    Of course, MOBAS starting to became something in 2010, but WoW was THE MMO, the biggest of all, at that time, they don't need to touch his "essence" cause the game was only gaining more and more players. BUT, still people don't know why...all change? Why? Because of the MOBAS? I doubt that.

    Aboout WoW being a videogame and you play or don't, absolutelly, you are 100% right. But at the same time, as a player who plays every day, i wan't the game to be good and succesful, because that helps as a player, playing a quality product.

    Was MOBAS the reason of WoW starting to decline, or, starting at his peak of subs and the beggining of the MOBAS, the game starting to change from his essence and become more different? I think both are right.

    Also at the time, a lot of the Blizzard money was put in to Starcraft 2, Diablo 3 and Titan, so the quality of the product start to decline a bit.

  18. #258
    Deleted
    From a TBC player: The reason why I think WoW lost its glory

    The game is old (12 yars old) and didn't evolve or innovate the genre.

    The End

  19. #259
    I think it all went down hill when they decided to try and capture some of the vanilla and tbc wow.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by nairobi13 View Post
    This was the exact moment wow "Died". The communities were the best part of the game. Don't get me wrong, i've been around since tbc and have always loved the game bar cataclysm raiding. I've never had a problem and am really enjoying myself. But i find all my fondest memories of the game were back when there were communities on the server. It also deterred from anyone being an idiot from fear of a bad rep and not being taken anywhere.

    Saying that, i use the dungeon finder daily. So it's a bit of a catch 22. Convenience or community.
    The real problem there was that right around the time LFD got introduced, WoW should have been having server mergers, back in, like, what was it? 2010? But they never did it (and still have never done it) because it's extremely bad PR for an MMO to do that. (Which I honestly don't believe would have really have mattered in the long run.) People like to chalk everything up to convenience, but it is more than that. Way more than that. There just wasn't enough people congregated together, at the same point in the game, to do most things and Blizzard basically kept slapping things together to avoid the real problem. (Too many god damned servers)

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