[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Kaelwryn]

I doubt Apartments will be attractive for FC people.

After all they have the same "50 things" restriction like your FC room but cost 200K more.

Well, my FC is based in The Goblet, I have a home in Mist and if I get an apartment I can claim a part of The Lavender Beds for myself too.

I'm kinda tempted to go and grab apartment in Beds, even tho we already have FC-house there. But think I'll still check each lobby before making my purchase, but it's gonna be either Beds or Goblet.

While not representative of the community as a whole, I'm fairly certain there are plenty of others who feel the same.

[Granyala]

I fail to the the point to this. Apartments are just instanced rooms. What difference does it make where they are located? They will all look the same, since FF doesn't support buildings with actually transparent windows.

[Malackai]

I fail to the the point to this. Apartments are just instanced rooms. What difference does it make where they are located? They will all look the same, since FF doesn't support buildings with actually transparent windows.

Think it has mainly to do with free teleports :P

[Anzaman]

Guess I'll just be the odd man out on this. Esp with balmung housing problem. Apartments are suppose to be for those people not lucky enough to either be apart of an FC with a house or have the gil for one. With how many apartments are going to be available, there SHOULD be no problem but I have no faith. Which is why I don't think they should allow you to have essentially 3 places or at least put some kind of restriction on it for the first few months so you can ensure the 'homeless' get one first.

I might think so if I'd be on Balmung as well, and was thinking of passing the apartment when I heard that it'd be only 90/ward. But when I heard that they can easily increase it all the way to ~500/ward, I don't see it being much of an issue on smaller server.

[Kaelwryn]

Full release patch notes

[Anzaman]

Full release patch notes

Looks at new items.. "Ornate Ironworks Vest of Gathering", "Ornate Ironworks Apron of Crafting" - good that I didn't buy my set(s) yesterday, would have been such huge waste of Gil.

[Lillpapps]

Looks at new items.. "Ornate Ironworks Vest of Gathering", "Ornate Ironworks Apron of Crafting" - good that I didn't buy my set(s) yesterday, would have been such huge waste of Gil.

New non meldable red scrip gear?

I really like the glamour change actually. It was pretty tedious with all the different grades.

[Anzaman]

I really like the glamour change actually. It was pretty tedious with all the different grades.

Yeah, some grades were quite expensive compared to others, sometimes they were even sold out.



Already told my brother to hide my wallet somewhere.

[Remilia]

Want more sakura trees.

[Kazgrel]

I doubt Apartments will be attractive for FC people.

After all they have the same "50 things" restriction like your FC room but cost 200K more.

Two things:

1. Not tied to a FC, so if you leave or get booted, you don't lose your room.

2. Not subject to auto-demolish like housing is

That's why I'll be trying to snag one, hopefully in Mist, since my FC house is in Goblet. I'm on Balmung, though...so yeah, good luck and all that, heh.

- - - Updated - - -

Looks at new items.. "Ornate Ironworks Vest of Gathering", "Ornate Ironworks Apron of Crafting" - good that I didn't buy my set(s) yesterday, would have been such huge waste of Gil.

I don't feel I'm missing out or have wasted gil because putting grade 5s in those things (in order to max them out or at least get as close as possible) would be ridiculously expensive, even with the Wonderous Tails thing providing a way to get more grade 5s.

- - - Updated - - -

New non meldable red scrip gear?

I really like the glamour change actually. It was pretty tedious with all the different grades.

I'm wondering what took so long, honestly. First time I got to encounter glamouring gear, and I was like "Uh, the prisms are all the same mats, basically...why are there 5 grades?".

Here's hoping they take a similar approach to the dark matter (for self-repair of gear).

[Anzaman]

I don't feel I'm missing out or have wasted gil because putting grade 5s in those things (in order to max them out or at least get as close as possible) would be ridiculously expensive, even with the Wonderous Tails thing providing a way to get more grade 5s.

Well, I was looking at gathering set yesterday, thinking about buying it - heard people talking how it would be last crafting/gathering set in expansion, and now I'm seeing some new "Ornate Ironworks" appearing in item list, and with Ironworks dropping from specialization list and materials getting cheaper, I should be able to start working on both crafting and gathering with less Gil.

[Wrecktangle]

You put words in my mouth. Side content in WoW is relevant to those that find those fun. I don't find them fun compared to FFXIV side content. The ONLY thing I find more fun in WoW is difficult dungeon content. That's why I went back to FFXIV.

You stated and I quote:

It's still clear that raiding is the only thing that matters in WoW.

That's not me putting words in your mouth. Thats you being a hypocrite by saying that all of WoW's side content is completely superfluous despite being identical to FF14s. You enjoying FF14 more than WoW is fine, nothing wrong with that, but that wasn't what you stated.

Appreciate the clarification. I did entirely miss the comparison of "If WoW is exclusively about raiding with all else irrelevant, then FFXIV shares that same design" being made in response to the previous post. Apologies for the error, but much appreciation for the level headed clarification.

Though I'd say this only holds true NOW that Legion has released. Prior to this, FFXIV did allow for multiple paths of character progression.
Relic/Tomestones
24 man
Primal EX/8 man

Fair enough - can't argue with that considering all I did in WoD was raid log (to be fair, all I did in FF14 was raid log too because leveling alt jobs was beyond taxing (Fates or dungeon spam as a solo DPS bleh), and I don't have the insanity/free time to chase relic weapons.

All three were their own progression path and I was QUITE content being a Crystal Tower & tomestone player while others were in Bahamut's Coil. In fact, I almost prefer it over Alexander normal/savage split.

While this was in place, WoW had raid, and only raid, progression upon reaching max level, whether it was LFR or normal (or mythic) raiding, that was still the only real option with MoP and WoD.

This statement to me underlies my dislike for FF14 itemization. What you're saying is certainly true, but then couldn't I just argue that in WoW you could just be a mythic dungeon(WoD era) geared player and be happy? Or are you saying that tomestone gear+ mats from 24s = same ilvl as raid gear so its ok? I'm curious if your statement is due to the ilvl being satisfactory in FF14 whereas raid gear ilvl in wow > mythic dungeon ilvl so not ok?

As far as the normal/savage split vs. 24m + BC I actually agree. I don't think WoW's multiple difficulty system is the best iteration of splitting "skilled" vs. "less-skilled" IMO. I liked that the reward for BC was additional story etc, that would have made me want to get better to do it, but then again if I wasn't a skilled player how would I feel?

Now they've got mythic dungeons added and I could see new world quests being added as a catch up mechanic on some gear. (I'm not crazy that any imitation of the badge system is gone, right? Because tomestones are essentially badges of justice etc).

To those who've said FFXIV isn't even on Blizzard's radar and they don't pay that tiny upstart any attention, I feel like there's some clear FFXIV influence sprinkled around in Legion.

Badge system is gone yes. Some of my actual upgrades were from world quests (they have chances to upgrade etc.), so you can even get solid loot. Hell I have an 880 Ring from the world quest boss.

There's definitely a lot of cross game snatching occurring on both sides. Anyone who says otherwise is out of their mind.

[Kazgrel]

Well, I was looking at gathering set yesterday, thinking about buying it - heard people talking how it would be last crafting/gathering set in expansion, and now I'm seeing some new "Ornate Ironworks" appearing in item list, and with Ironworks dropping from specialization list and materials getting cheaper, I should be able to start working on both crafting and gathering with less Gil.

Could be. It'll likely be the same ilvl as the current crafted Ironworks gear, only it'll have lower base stats to balance the fact it has 5 guaranteed meld slots. Couple that with all Ironworks gear/items no longer being specialist locked, and it's easier now than ever to catch up on gathering/crafting gear.

[Lillpapps]

You stated and I quote:
That's not me putting words in your mouth. Thats you being a hypocrite by saying that all of WoW's side content is completely superfluous despite being identical to FF14s. You enjoying FF14 more than WoW is fine, nothing wrong with that, but that wasn't what you stated.

Stop fucking calling my a hypocrite when you don't even understand what I'm saying.

Just because I like burgers I can't like McDonalds burgers but dislike Burger Kings burgers because they are both burgers so that makes me a hypocrite. This is basicly what you are saying.

I don't enjoy the side content in WoW so the side content in WoW doesn't matter TO ME. I do like the side content in FFXIV so it matters TO ME. The only thing side content has in common in WoW and FFXIV is that it's called side content.

"You enjoying FF14 more than WoW is fine, nothing wrong with that, but that wasn't what you stated"
THAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT I STATED.

Don't even know why I bother with you.

[Kazgrel]

On the subject of itemization/reward structure at max level:

I'm of the opinion this game does it much better than WoW. Would dare say it's ideal for a sub-based game. Got in a huge spat on Reddit with some butthurt person due to the fact Savage doesn't reward higher ilvl gear than anything else.

- Savage raiding grants access to both augmented tomestone gear, months before non-raiders, as well as the Alex sets; combining the two allows raiders to achieve absolute BiS.
- Savage weapons, at least starting with Midas, are BiS due to higher ilvl + weapon damage; may be some fringe examples here (say, if the Creator 275 weapon for BLM has no spell speed)
- Eventually, non-raiders can catch up and be within 90% of what raiders have, but we're talking months down the road; anima weapons won't increase until 3.45, so Sophia EX weapons and/or crafted 250s will reign supreme for a bit until raiders can obtain 270/275 weapons.
- Glamour is the true end game: Savage is only way to get the Alex weapons + dyeable Alex armor sets. Toss in unique mount/minion rewards also (Creator looks to have a new mount as reward for A12S clear).

As a long time raider in WoW, this game does pretty much as good a job catering to raiding as WoW, only they aren't completely bending over backwards and pouring all of their efforts soley into raiding (hello, WoD).

[Usagi Senshi]

As a long time raider in WoW, this game does pretty much as good a job catering to raiding as WoW, only they aren't completely bending over backwards and pouring all of their efforts soley into raiding (hello, WoD).

As a former hardcore raider, that is why I like FFXIV so much as there is a lot of shit to do usually and there is some challenge to be had if I wish to pursue it without huge time requirements.

This is also why I like the new Mythic+ 5-mans in WoW, I can get raid-level challenges without being in a raid guild team (even though I'm using the guild's raid team members for my runs for now :P).

[Wrecktangle]

Stop fucking calling my a hypocrite when you don't even understand what I'm saying.

I understand what you're saying perfectly. I think that YOU don't actually remember what you said. I also don't think you bothered to read my posts to refresh your memory on what you said.

Just because I like burgers I can't like McDonalds burgers but dislike Burger Kings burgers because they are both burgers so that makes me a hypocrite. This is basicly what you are saying.

Using your own analogy: You're saying that you dislike burgers, while scarfing down a McDonalds cheeseburger. That is what makes you a hypocrite. Had you actually said in your OP that "You prefer the side-content in FF14 more so than WoW because it feels more meaningful/fun, etc. you may be right, but that's not what you said. You directly implied that there was no side content in WoW and that the only content is raiding, which is false.

I don't enjoy the side content in WoW so the side content in WoW doesn't matter TO ME. I do like the side content in FFXIV so it matters TO ME. The only thing side content has in common in WoW and FFXIV is that it's called side content.

No issue here. You don't have to enjoy the content, but just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean you can discount its existence when making a statement like (paraphrasing): WoW clearly only cares about raiding.

That would be like me saying FF14 is shit because it doesn't have any raids. It clearly does, whether or not I like them or think they're relevant doesn't detract from their existence.

THAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT I STATED.

Go read your first post again. No it's not.

On the subject of itemization/reward structure at max level:

I'm of the opinion this game does it much better than WoW. Would dare say it's ideal for a sub-based game. Got in a huge spat on Reddit with some butthurt person due to the fact Savage doesn't reward higher ilvl gear than anything else.

Prepare for one here too

So you think itemization/reward structure is better in FF14 when compared to WoW. If possible I'd like to separate the two for a minute while we discuss, because while they're heavily related they're actually dramatically different.

Regarding Itemization:

FF14

• FF14 has ilvl > all barring fringe cases like you mentioned. There are no other benefits to gear, no other skill/job based interactions.
• FF14 has secondary stats that are largely useless. They provide little to no change in gameplay and 96% of the time you will not notice any large change to these stats.

Am I missing anything? Materia doesn't do anything. It's just more flat +x stat that doesn't actually do anything. Relic weapons have no features or enhanced skill traits. Armor sets don't change gameplay or add anything new. No additional item slots that impact gameplay right?

WoW

• Secondary Stats can matter (Haste being notable, i.e. changing debuff/buff uptimes, causing rotational changes, etc.)
• Some armor (even accessories) have sets that provide additional bonuses, be it procs, stat buffs, extra damage, ability priorities, or even rotational changes.
• Trinkets can add value by doing more damage, having extra effects etc.

Rough pass on itemization.

The questions we need to ask are which features are "good" and which are "bad" and why? Which do you prefer? Do you like the simplistic non-engaging itemization in FF14 because it means picking an item is simple and go? Do you like WoWs more intricate item approach since it has much more depth, or maybe it's too complicated and just gets in the way?

Me personally I couldn't stand FF14s. It was just so boring. It made me not care what items dropped because in the end, they didn't really matter. I didn't feel more powerful. I didn't look more powerful, and nothing game-play wise changed.

As far as positives for FF14, I love the dye system (although I wish it was a 2 step or 3 step with a little more color/area customization).

Regarding Reward Structure

I can see the draw of FF14s reward structure. I actually like the tomestone gear, especially with the augmented versions being dyeable (and savage too). I think that's one area that surpasses WoWs design. While Mythic only sets have features the norm/heroic don't, being able to dye them is actually cooler and more fun IMO.

I think the implementation of Relic Weapons as a reward structure pales in comparison to WoW's artifact system. I love how WoW's artifact gets you out into the world doing relevant quests (rep, possible item upgrades, Order Resources, money, etc.) I also love how you can unlock different appearances (and colors) by further going out into the world to do additional content. That to me is infinitely better than farming nondescript items in bland boring dungeons that offer you literally no real rewards or dear god another thousand FATEs.

Your post mentions a lot about ilvl, BiS, and getting gear before other people and I'm personally just not sold on any of those being terribly important or relevant as "rewards". I think that's the larger issue with MMO's (this effects most, but IMO FF14 suffers from this the most due to its abnormally stale itemization).

Your comment about unique mounts/minions from savage is irrelevant in this particular discussion as WoW offers same thing.

As a long time raider in WoW, this game does pretty much as good a job catering to raiding as WoW, only they aren't completely bending over backwards and pouring all of their efforts soley into raiding (hello, WoD).

I also agree that FF14 does a fairly good job catering to players interested in raiding. Certainly room to improve, but they do quite alright.

As a former hardcore raider, that is why I like FFXIV so much as there is a lot of shit to do usually and there is some challenge to be had if I wish to pursue it without huge time requirements.

This is also why I like the new Mythic+ 5-mans in WoW, I can get raid-level challenges without being in a raid guild team (even though I'm using the guild's raid team members for my runs for now :P).

Agreed. I actually really loved the design of EX trials. They're hard enough to be very fun, impressive visually, and have fun mechanics. I would kill for some actual challenging dungeon content and raids with a little more open structure, more bosses I'd say 6-7 would be perfect and make them have a better tuned difficulty curve (never again A2S to A3S).

[lawow74]

Personally, I feel the mechanic-changing set bonuses to be a drawback in WoW, as it feels like you're sub-par if you don't have your set. This is what generated so much hate towards Raid Finder, as the raiders felt like they were forced to do it in order to get those set bonuses and proccing trinkets ASAP, or they were not pulling their weight. But by the same token it pissed off people in WoD when they took the set bonuses back from Raid Finder to cater to the raiders and basically shit on the LFR players saying they're not good enough to have the shinies the 'real raiders' get.

It might feel more boring mechanically, but I think it's better for the playerbase to have looks and raw stats be the reward for the harder content, not gameplay-changing gimcracks.

[Kazgrel]

Prepare for one here too

Nah, your response is far from what I got on Reddit which was "I want higher ilvl gear to feed my ego"; not exactly a ver batim reply, but damn near it.

On itemization:

- One thing Blizzard did recently with WoW, and FF14 could learn the same: Get rid of Accuracy (or Hit + Expertise, in WoW's case). Especially in a game where it's left to checking third party parsing in order to determine exactly what accuracy caps are.

- FF14 could use some sort of stat akin to WoW's mastery. There's already crit, haste (spell/skill speed), and versatility, more or less (determination).

- Parry, as a stat, is turd. A riposte style of damage reflect on parry would be pretty cool, but would also be ridiculous on WAR, since you get a 100% parry cd (on top of another cd that does damage reflect, Vengeance).

- As fun as trinkets can be in WoW, having put up with how absurdly powerful they are, I would rather see such a concept stay far, far away from FF14.

On reward structure:

- A dye system in WoW, even if it were as archaic as what is in FF14, would be absolutely amazing. Even if I don't play the game anymore, I would love to see that get implemented...I mean hey, they essentially ripped the transmog system out of Diablo 3 and imported it into WoW...why stop there? Even if the dyeable gear were limited to the mythic-only sets...which it probably wouldn't, because I can guarantee that would create a mountain of salt here and on official forums.

- More variety/flavor in completing anima weapon steps would be good. The second step having you advance through dungeons was reasonable (Ok, maybe not if you have horrendous queue times). The step for aether oil was decent, giving incentive to run the Crystal Tower raids. The (recently nerfed) 210 step for the mountains of unidentified items + crafted stuff and the 240 step where you're basically stuck farming eso (soon to be lore) tomes for a month or so? Zzzz. I say that, despite working on 240 #4 at this time. At least the 210 step has several methods for acquiring the items needed; umbrite is a straight up eso/lore grind. I can't speak for the artifact weapons in WoW, since I don't play it anymore. I've only gleamed bits and pieces from previews posted on this site over the months.

- To give the anima weapons perks and such akin to WoW artifact weapons would likely make them required for cutting edge raiding, when they've been advertised as the weapon path for non-raiders. Although this doesn't prevent a raider from working on anima weapons (healers in particular would, for accuracy, since no other weapons have that for them), it would be ludicrous to render the weapons from savage raiding irrelevant if the anima featured some sort of procs or bonus effects that put it over the top. It's basically wow trinket syndrome all over again.

- Tomes can be netted from a variety of different gameplay types. It so happens that dungeons are the "best", at least in many people's minds. I've actually backed off dungeon running compared to even a month ago because 1. I've gotten into hunt linkshells and found that farming hunts is as efficient a way to work on anima weapons as any due to the amount of different currencies and what they can be flipped to, and 2. my RL friend, who's been dpsing while I went tank to get us in dungeons faster, has had to take time away from the game.

- If itemization is so bland and such from FF14, then how would having savage reward higher ilvl stuff change that? Not really a question for you, per se, but more or less what I brought up on Reddit, only to have the answer be "to sate my ego", heh. I believe we both agree that FF14 could use at least one more neato stat and/or some tweaks to current stats to make them more appealling. Really, 90% of classes are "stack crit and X", X being a variable based on class (one exception being BLM, which hails spell speed as king).

- Unique mounts/minions is a wash since both games have them, yes. As a former mount collector in WoW, I'm biased towards having mounts as a raid drop for mythic/savage level content.

I prefer the overall structure in this game. That's not to say it is not perfect, though. There's bits and pieces that 14 could learn a lesson or two from WoW, and vice versa.

- - - Updated - - -

Personally, I feel the mechanic-changing set bonuses to be a drawback in WoW, as it feels like you're sub-par if you don't have your set. This is what generated so much hate towards Raid Finder, as the raiders felt like they were forced to do it in order to get those set bonuses and proccing trinkets ASAP, or they were not pulling their weight. But by the same token it pissed off people in WoD when they took the set bonuses back from Raid Finder to cater to the raiders and basically shit on the LFR players saying they're not good enough to have the shinies the 'real raiders' get.

It might feel more boring mechanically, but I think it's better for the playerbase to have looks and raw stats be the reward for the harder content, not gameplay-changing gimcracks.

Set bonuses could be something to consider for FF14, but given their history of broken-ness in WoW, they would end up amounting to nothing more than "here's X amount more crit", kinda like those low level GC items have. That's nothing to really write home about.

Perhaps if materia became more something akin to how runes are in Guild Wars 2...eh, then any gear without materia slot would be considered trash.

[Remilia]

The issue with giving unique procs, set bonuses, or special effects / mods to skills is well... balance, which if you want to look at WoW's current situation, has no semblance of balance at all. Especially when people say you need specific artifact skills, then you should know you screwed up bad.