[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[caervek]

I think there are multiple very close gearing metas for ret, but the viable ones I've seen are:

1 - Stack the shit out of haste until 30% breakpoint (what I'm doing)
2 - keep crit and haste equal (what Notcal does)
3 - stack mastery (what Solsacra does)

Any of these options are fine, I think I'll end up somewhere between #1 and #2.

I was doing #1 but simcraft is telling me to use a different mix of the gear I have which has resulted in #2, it seems to sim higher in DPS anyway.

SimC is currently giving me: Str > Vers ~= Crit > Haste > Mastery

Comically, if I change player skill from "Good" to "Elite" then Mastery overtakes Haste and I gain 36,000 DPS, but I have no delusions about being a cyborg lol.

[Sunfire]

I was doing #1 but simcraft is telling me to use a different mix of the gear I have which has resulted in #2, it seems to sim higher in DPS anyway.

SimC is currently giving me: Str > Vers ~= Crit > Haste > Mastery

Same here. I tend to stick around 25% haste though even if the sims say differently due to the subjective flow of the rotation. Since I play mostly with Zeal instead of TFoJ I have slightly longer waiting times anyway and haste reduces those. Everything above 25% is costing me too much ilvl (in that I have to chose haste pieces with a lower ilvl over higher without haste), at least right now.

[Puzzony]

If, and it's a big IF yet, the Crusade on PTR makes it to live, masteries' stat weight will be skyrocket opposed to crit, if you're willing to use it, of course. it will be STR>haste (30%)>mastery>haste>versatility>crit, or something like that. Haste's value over 30% could be questionable, since its extra value will "only" be the extra judgment casts during Crusade, but hence it affects our base skill cooldowns as well, it could be worth it, not to mention the extra autoattacks that can proc blade of refurbished art of war. We'll see as we're closing in on the patch.

[Deleted]

If, and it's a big IF yet, the Crusade on PTR makes it to live, masteries' stat weight will be skyrocket opposed to crit, if you're willing to use it, of course.

If that iteration makes it to live I gonna order enough Chinese takeout to sate an entire football team (don´t care if real or american) and take a big dump in blizzards front yard. if everything works as intended guys from Switzerland will get over and declare me new Guinness world record holder ... at least until Bono get's wind of it.

[caervek]

If that iteration makes it to live I gonna order enough Chinese takeout to sate an entire football team (don´t care if real or american) and take a big dump in blizzards front yard.

Sounds like a plan

[idpsutank]

@Ravex, how does the reset actually work? I am at Rank 22 trait ( costs 67.8k for my next one ) i basically just said fuck the reset and would just farm the AP to compensate, but if its a dps increase to reset even now ill do it, I have AtA and Echo atm, the 6% TV dmg, i have 2 of the crusade extension traits but from Relics and not actually spending AP to put a point in there. If I reset, i just get all the AP back minus 67.8k that it costs to reset?

[Torchbringer]

Xavius: First Crusade on pull. Get good RNG and get sent into the dream. Yell at everyone over voice to not soak adds. Get 1 soak away from 100 corruption. When Crusade comes up, time it such that you use it, get to 15 stacks, then run out and get to 100 corruption. Pop second pot. Enjoy the 7 million damage TV crits. If your tanks do low dps, be prepared to call for a BoP, as pulling aggro is a legitimate concern. You could do it yourself, but it's a huge dps loss. Third Crusade as soon as it comes up.

just confirming, if you reach 100 corruption while dreaming, as long as you do it with 20 seconds or less on the dream you won't get MC'd when you leave the dream?

[Kantalope]

@Ravex, how does the reset actually work? I am at Rank 22 trait ( costs 67.8k for my next one ) i basically just said fuck the reset and would just farm the AP to compensate, but if its a dps increase to reset even now ill do it, I have AtA and Echo atm, the 6% TV dmg, i have 2 of the crusade extension traits but from Relics and not actually spending AP to put a point in there. If I reset, i just get all the AP back minus 67.8k that it costs to reset?

I don't know that a reset would be worth it for you. You have to get the 68k AP to get the next trait (or reset), and if I've put together your artifact path correctly, you'd only be missing the points in crusade and judgement damage from that proper path to increase damage. With that 68k you'd get 3/3(4) crusade with your current relics. You can sim it, and it'll likely show a dps increase for a reset, but it's an expensive reset that might not be worth the investment over just dealing with your mistake and pressing on.

[idpsutank]

I don't know that a reset would be worth it for you. You have to get the 68k AP to get the next trait (or reset), and if I've put together your artifact path correctly, you'd only be missing the points in crusade and judgement damage from that proper path to increase damage. With that 68k you'd get 3/3(4) crusade with your current relics. You can sim it, and it'll likely show a dps increase for a reset, but it's an expensive reset that might not be worth the investment over just dealing with your mistake and pressing on.

Yeah that's what I thought, Ill prolly just deal with it and press on, I farm AP a lot and it seems like even tho it's 64.8k for my next that it still goes by pretty fast, I'm already half way to it. I was mainly looking for advice. Thank you for the input Kantalope ^^.

[OrcsRLame]

just confirming, if you reach 100 corruption while dreaming, as long as you do it with 20 seconds or less on the dream you won't get MC'd when you leave the dream?

Correct. Instead of being mind controlled, you will just automatically port out of the dream at the end of the 15 seconds.

- - - Updated - - -

Was looking over the top parses for Xavius. I notice a surprising number of rets are running Virtue's Blade now, instead of Blade of Wrath. Am I a bit behind the curve on something? I haven't been following this thread much but as far as I knew BoW had been ahead for almost all situations. Something to do with crit and haste rating interplays?

Every time I get an upgrade, I re-sim myself, with VB and with BoW. Also re-sim scaling to check stat weights. Sometimes BoW is ahead, sometimes VB is ahead. Even one upgrade can cause a huge fluctuation in stat weights, and put one talent ahead of the other. Currently I'm actually running VB, because it sims as ~1700 more dps for me atm. Pretty happy with the results in game.

[Ravex]

@Ravex, how does the reset actually work? I am at Rank 22 trait ( costs 67.8k for my next one ) i basically just said fuck the reset and would just farm the AP to compensate, but if its a dps increase to reset even now ill do it, I have AtA and Echo atm, the 6% TV dmg, i have 2 of the crusade extension traits but from Relics and not actually spending AP to put a point in there. If I reset, i just get all the AP back minus 67.8k that it costs to reset?

Yep you are correct on how the respec works.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know that a reset would be worth it for you. You have to get the 68k AP to get the next trait (or reset), and if I've put together your artifact path correctly, you'd only be missing the points in crusade and judgement damage from that proper path to increase damage. With that 68k you'd get 3/3(4) crusade with your current relics. You can sim it, and it'll likely show a dps increase for a reset, but it's an expensive reset that might not be worth the investment over just dealing with your mistake and pressing on.

Kinda what I was thinking, the only thing to take into account is if he has to ditch his relics for higher ilevel ones and the upcomming crusade change making Judgment damage more important.

This ones a bit more grey then the other two.

[TheZ]

Seems like a lot of you don't like the current ptr crusade, but what do you guys think about ptr bow?
I wish new bow would reset judgment, but that would make us even more similar to arms warriors than we already are with the holy edition of colossus smash.

[Vanderhuge]

VB/BoJ simply comes down to how much Crit you have. If you don't have high crit, there's no point in using a talent that increases crit damage.

Still wish that they had just buffed the effect of Mastery instead of giving us flat buffs to J/TV/DS.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Seems like a lot of you don't like the current ptr crusade, but what do you guys think about ptr bow?
I wish new bow would reset judgment, but that would make us even more similar to arms warriors than we already are with the holy edition of colossus smash.

Personally the new BoJ in 7.1 is just Art of War from previous expansion. Our rotation will be even slower with the 7.1 change. Either having VB or BoW will have a better rotation. Divine Hammer while AOE will make us slower.


That said, some may not care about rotation being slower.

[Deleted]

Is Crusade worth it without Wrath of the Ashbringer? So basicly 20 sec crusade. I could replace my fire relic 850 (10 sec reduced cd on shield) with an 840 relic which increases my wings by 2.5 sec.

If i play with 3/3 wings + crusade, is the 840 relic with wings worth it for losing 10 ilvl on the relic?

[Vx-Odessa-xV]

Brb, popping crusade for 20 seconds, or 30sec to try to stack 15 stacks, only to fail entirely and never reach that point because judgment has a reduced CD at the least of 2.0 seconds, if at 8 seconds without crusade active. Hello bottleneck, while also having to weave in finishers to benefit from this damage increase crusade gives.

GG working as intended. Hello cooldown that will NEVER reach it's full power.

[Taeldorian]

Brb, popping crusade for 20 seconds, or 30sec to try to stack 15 stacks, only to fail entirely and never reach that point because judgment has a reduced CD at the least of 2.0 seconds, if at 8 seconds without crusade active. Hello bottleneck, while also having to weave in finishers to benefit from this damage increase crusade gives.

GG working as intended. Hello cooldown that will NEVER reach it's full power.

Go provide that feedback. I don't think that's how they want it to be. It's still extremely good either way but I've already discussed this as much as I possibly could, so I don't want to restate the objective reasons as to why it's a good change. I mean shit, even the only professional ret in here said its a good change. That should already show you that it's better than what we have.

Either way, just provide the feedback on the forums in a non aggressive way so we have a chance at being heard here. If you say it in a shitty way though I'm sure they'll skim right over it, so don't do that.

[stolker]

Maybe it's obvious but I thoroughly suggest going AOEtardin in Mythic+. Meaning: Skill all the AOE talents in your tree, consecration, divine hammer, zeal, etc. On groups of 3 with mediocre 850 gear I bottom out at 250k DPS without cooldowns and top at about 450k with popped CDs( trinket + crusade). On larger groups it can get quite insane, I think the highest I've seen over a 30 second fight was something like 900k DPS on some large group in black rook hold (which is mind blowingly awesome for tauren aoetardin btw, you can stun everything). The DPS on single target is definitely quite garbage, but it's not that bad. Like I pull about 150-160k where I pull about 190-210k with single target spec. Obviously that time is saved 10 times over with the AOe spec on trash.

[Taeldorian]

Seems like a lot of you don't like the current ptr crusade, but what do you guys think about ptr bow?
I wish new bow would reset judgment, but that would make us even more similar to arms warriors than we already are with the holy edition of colossus smash.

Other way around. A lot of people like the new crusade. As I said before, the only professional ret in here said its a good change. Obviously different opinions come into play here but objectively it's a good change. Subjectively, some may hate it. Can't argue about it anymore though, finished doing that a few pages back.

As for the new BoW, it's basically AoW from MoP. I don't really like it tbh. Some people wanted more procs though so I guess here it is? Idk, not a fan.

[Deleted]

Look for a spot where you are by yourself, DPS till the last seconds in, mount up and lose as little as possible.

If only there was such a spot. We got a big raid in heroic. In mythic i may have the room.