Gear is no longer rewarding

[holynorth]

My only complaint is that the grind is never ending. If I log onto an alt and do a dungeon, that's a dungeon that I could have done on my main that had a chance at dropping gear higher than my heroic EN gear.

I always liked the idea of having X things to do each week and being able to do those and be done.

I guess they're moving away from that and want that constant, grind as much as you want D3 style.

[Sencha]

i preffer to have progress from skills than from rng drops. didnt you?
i like to wipe and improve myself on the fight, thats the fun for me, idk. if the bosses dropped my calamity's edge or not, if i win the roll on it or not, its like not the best thing to be progressing on.
if it was for me there will be no gear, and you can go EN Mythic+2+3+4+5+6+7 with always the same gear. a baseline one, and the achieve is get more difficultys like others

Sounds interesting. Using the new pvp gear normalization and apply it to raiding looks fun. See how far you can get without improving your stats and only rely on your skills is definitely something to think about for a future patch or next expansion.

[shonist]

Sounds interesting. Using the new pvp gear normalization and apply it to raiding looks fun. See how far you can get without improving your stats and only rely on your skills is definitely something to think about for a future patch or next expansion.

you rely on your skills and rng to obtaing gear. so... you are just skipping the rng to get in more challenging gameplay.

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My only complaint is that the grind is never ending. If I log onto an alt and do a dungeon, that's a dungeon that I could have done on my main that had a chance at dropping gear higher than my heroic EN gear.

I always liked the idea of having X things to do each week and being able to do those and be done.

I guess they're moving away from that and want that constant, grind as much as you want D3 style.

im in the same boat like you, i liked having X things to do each week, so i can go out and do another things in my life. but yeah, basically community claims for an MMO, and now the game is an MMO. Let the grind begin.

[Video Games]

I cant tell you how frustrating it is to finally get a high titanforge only to have my worst stats and having to vendor it. Like, there goes my luck for the week down the toilet. This is just not a good system and I'd rather know im not getting an upgrade than getting my hopes up and feel like I'm wasting my luck if which i have very little of in the first place.

Also blues 830 blues being better than mythic en 880s is fucking absurd. I didnt mind little things like dst being bis, but this applies to all loot if they have shit stats. I can't believe i walked into heroic en and asked is there even any upgrades in here at all for me?

[Seradi]

They tried that in wod. Turns out it left alot pf.players with nothing to do or at least no reason to do any of it.

No they didn't. They pretty much handed out gear in WoD too. If you did 0 raiding you could get a piece of LFR gear from your garrison bi-weekly cache. If all you did was heroic you could get a piece of Mythic gear. 0 effort put into a level of the raid and you could get gear from it.

[Glorious Leader]

No they didn't. They pretty much handed out gear in WoD too. If you did 0 raiding you could get a piece of LFR gear from your garrison bi-weekly cache. If all you did was heroic you could get a piece of Mythic gear. 0 effort put into a level of the raid and you could get gear from it.

They handed out junk. They moved significant amounts of power gain to set bonusea and trinkets. The gear they were rewarded was significantly weaker even if the ilvl was similar. They effectively cut out the reward non raid content.

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Because gear is still needed for the raid progress (unless you can beat mythic bosses with a 850 ilvl raid but this is probably impossible). This gear should only be obtainable if you overcome challenges (killing raid bosses for instance), not from 2-clicks follower missions (no challenge).

If mythic scaled like challenge mode you wouldnt need the gear. Furthermore nothing about the fact that you nees the gear for raid progress is related to the fact that other people can earn it or should earn. The former is a fact of the current raid model the second is moralizing and conjecture based on perceived deservedness of activities and the individuals who participate in them. The two have no relation at all unless you count the desire for prestive to lord over others with your epeen.

[Otimus]

I cant tell you how frustrating it is to finally get a high titanforge only to have my worst stats and having to vendor it. Like, there goes my luck for the week down the toilet. This is just not a good system and I'd rather know im not getting an upgrade than getting my hopes up and feel like I'm wasting my luck if which i have very little of in the first place.

Also blues 830 blues being better than mythic en 880s is fucking absurd. I didnt mind little things like dst being bis, but this applies to all loot if they have shit stats. I can't believe i walked into heroic en and asked is there even any upgrades in here at all for me?

The real problem here is that junk stats can exist. That's why they need to either balance things better or get rid of two out of the four secondary stats of mastery, crit, haste, and versatility. Even then, junk stats existing wouldn't be THAT big of a problem if rings and necklaces (and sometimes trinkets!) weren't just big secondary stat sticks. It kind of seems like they didn't think that part entirely through. Quite honestly, mastery and versatility could probably have been easily pruned out of the game entirely this expansion and I don't think much would have been lost in the grand scheme of things. (Plus, just having crit and haste is just simpler, and provides more tangible RPG-y benefits that most people would understand.) At the very least, versatility should have been pruned out.

[Video Games]

The real problem here is that junk stats can exist. That's why they need to either balance things better or get rid of two out of the four secondary stats of mastery, crit, haste, and versatility. Even then, junk stats existing wouldn't be THAT big of a problem if rings and necklaces (and sometimes trinkets!) weren't just big secondary stat sticks. It kind of seems like they didn't think that part entirely through. Quite honestly, mastery and versatility could probably have been easily pruned out of the game entirely this expansion and I don't think much would have been lost in the grand scheme of things. (Plus, just having crit and haste is just simpler, and provides more tangible RPG-y benefits that most people would understand.) At the very least, versatility should have been pruned out.

The funny part is is one of the better solutions to this problem is brining back reforging. A system i liked because even if it had sub optimal stats, it could still be an upgrade as opposed to now where i vendor gear 30 ilvls over what i have

[fangless]

I just got some 850 gloves from that Suramar wine mini-game world quest.

WoW has got to the point where I received raid quality Epics for jumping in place.

-_-

[Compstance]

The funny part is is one of the better solutions to this problem is brining back reforging. A system i liked because even if it had sub optimal stats, it could still be an upgrade as opposed to now where i vendor gear 30 ilvls over what i have

I've ditched items that were 5 ilvl higher because the secondary stats weighed more heavily than the main stat, but I can't imagine a scenario where there would be enough of a secondary stat to outweight 30 ilvls of str/agi/int. Unless it was something with no primary stat, in which case, yeah that's shitty.

They really should have kept reforging though. Having to reforge and gem and enchant an item every single time was a bit of a hassle, but they gutted it too much IMO. Cutting back on gems and enchants and keeping reforging would have been enough.

[ComputerNerd]

If you were there at the start, then the content was relevant as you progressed through it.
If you started later, that same content becomes pretty useless beyond any necessity it has as a stepping stone.
That is a large part of what was wrong with attunements, the need to go through content which is no longer rewarding.
The random upgrades helps content hold some potential value for longer.

[Video Games]

I've ditched items that were 5 ilvl higher because the secondary stats weighed more heavily than the main stat, but I can't imagine a scenario where there would be enough of a secondary stat to outweight 30 ilvls of str/agi/int. Unless it was something with no primary stat, in which case, yeah that's shitty.

They really should have kept reforging though. Having to reforge and gem and enchant an item every single time was a bit of a hassle, but they gutted it too much IMO. Cutting back on gems and enchants and keeping reforging would have been enough.

Well i play spriest so if it doesnt have haste it is useless and even 830 shock baton is beating muthic en trinkets. Hatse had almost double the value of int.

[Akka]

And there's your problem. Not the gear, not the system. You. You feel it's not worth it. You miss the old days. That doesn't mean it, as your title says, is not rewarding. It is to me. I feel that way. I don't miss the olden days.

Except it's not rewarding, because it's random and not about reward.

[Deleted]

Except it's not rewarding

Opinion, not fact.

[Otimus]

Well i play spriest so if it doesnt have haste it is useless and even 830 shock baton is beating muthic en trinkets. Hatse had almost double the value of int.

I'm in similar situations with a Ret Paladin and haste. In my case, if it has mastery, it's basically garbage... and I swear they overload the everloving hell out of everything with mastery.

[fangless]

If you were there at the start, then the content was relevant as you progressed through it.
If you started later, that same content becomes pretty useless beyond any necessity it has as a stepping stone.
That is a large part of what was wrong with attunements, the need to go through content which is no longer rewarding.
The random upgrades helps content hold some potential value for longer.

Useless? In Vanilla/BC, content was always relevant because typically there were a group of guilds doing every raid tier as their own current content.

Raid threads detailing all the guilds and where they were in terms of raid tiers, on the server forums (rip server communities), were important because people could legitimately be progressing in BWL while some were still working on MC and a few going through Naxx. All of it was valid, and everyone was actually trying to complete that content as their own progression.

If you started later, you worked through the lower raids, and that was your own progression level.

As someone who was in at the ground floor in vanilla, and went all the way through Naxx to later having to slum it out in Kara/SSC/TK while Black Temple was being farmed by higher guilds, I always felt like I was doing something rewarding. Our guild first SSC kills were super hype and heart pounding, even if other guilds were already doing Hyjal or even BT trying to kill Illidan, etc.



There are upsides to everyone being on the same tier of dungeon all the time, and upsides to just letting people progress as they are able to.

[Akka]

Opinion, not fact.

Well, the fact is, the highest items depend on RNG instead of difficulty/effort. Hence they are not really "rewards" but rather "lottery".
It just seems many people mix up "greed" with "rewarding".

[Seradi]

They handed out junk. They moved significant amounts of power gain to set bonusea and trinkets. The gear they were rewarded was significantly weaker even if the ilvl was similar. They effectively cut out the reward non raid content.

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Junk? They gave you gear that would normally be acquired from raids, how is that junk? My guild mostly only did heroic and I had like 5 pieces from Mythic BRF without ever doing Mythic including a BiS Mythic WF trinket with a socket.

[Deleted]

It just seems many people mix up "greed" with "rewarding".

Does that mean it cannot FEEL rewarding, as that was what I was pointing out in my first post?

[MatadorMedia]

I find it extremely strange that my world quest gear is higher ilvl than LFR. Like how do I have 845 gear before raids come out, and then they start at 835... why? My only purpose is to run LFR once before my guild starts raiding to learn basic boss mechanics, but get no real rewards.