Why does healing need to be such a frantic rush?

[Einzweidrei]

Summary edit after a few pages of the thread: I believe that what healing plays like varies too much depending on your group. In a great group the tank mitigates well and the DPS interrupt and avoid fire and you've got too little healing to do, but in a bad group the tank gets wrecked and the dps fail mechanics and there is too much for the healer to keep up with. Healing should be tweaked so that it is fun and challenging all of (or at least more of) the time, instead of only when you have JUST the right mix of group skill + ilvl + content difficulty. DPS aren't bored in an easy dungeon, they still get to blow stuff up. Tanks still get to be the center of attention whether it's mythic+10 or a random heroic while wearing 870 gear. But heals have nothing to do when content is easy or groups are good (or both), and too much to do when content is hard or groups are bad (or both).

Encounters, overall, could stand to have lower avoidable damage... and instead have more unavoidable damage, plus mechanics that penalize people for failing mechanics with things other than just raw damage. That way healing tends to be harder when content gets harder, regardless of your group, but without being entirely steady and predictable, and the incentive for the group/raid as a whole to follow mechanics remains, with the reprecussions for failures also being more immediate and apparent.



Original post: You're only ever 1 GCD from failure, it feels like.

Spam your fastest heals on the tank. Panic while you watch hp bars at 10% while you try to cast that ae heal that takes a nearly-endless 1.85 seconds to finish. Struggle against mechanics that force movement while also dealing tons of damage. Try to sneak in 4 seconds of a mage biscuit between pulls since there's no such thing as mana conservation in dungeons and you know you'll need a bunch of mana for the next fight that the tank and dps have already started 65 yards ahead of you since they have no direct incentive to slow down as long as youre willing to bust your ass to keep them alive.

I feel like Dagny Taggart and Hank Reardon in every mythic (and especially mythic+) I run, burning my candle at both ends to let the other 4 people in the group play exactly the way they want to and not a bit differently, secure in the knowledge that they can probably get away with blaming the healer if anyone dies even if it was their tunnelvision on meters and a timer that truly caused the deaths.

Why does it have to be like this? What ever happened to those times Blizzard said they were going to boost hp pools relative to damage coming in so that a player PVPing can't die in a stun lock to another single player, or a tank can't be dropped in 3 seconds from full? To them saying they didn't want content to be just a mad spam of the most powerful spells? To the days when tanks had aggro to worry about so they couldn't just facepull 3 trash packs at once to be AEed down? To the days when DPS, too, could oom or pull threat if they weren't at least a little careful?

Or am I just bad and/or playing with bads?


Why can't we have more to think about but less to frantically mash our way through? Why can't a DPS failing a mechanic stick that dps with a big damage debuff and some damage instead of just a ridiculous amount of damage for the healer to deal with? Etc.

[Dug]

I agree with you but I'm just garbage at healing and always have been. I simply can't manage watching health bars and avoiding mechanics all while managing mana and various CDs. My hat goes off to the good healers in this game, y'all are the real MVPs

[Maletalana]

Why can't a DPS failing a mechanic stick that dps with a big damage debuff and some damage instead of just a ridiculous amount of damage for the healer to deal with? Etc.

woahh I love this. A dps tunnel-vision-ing and stepping in bad doesn't kill them, causing the healer to get fucked over, rather the dps now does 50% less dmg for 15 sec, yes! Now they will pay attention to mechanics >

Although as a Havoc DH, I would completely bomb constantly with all the teleport-y bs I have to do, lmao

[s_bushido]

It has to be like this because DPS is the majority of their playerbase.

Every time a healer is able to brute-force their way through idiots ignoring mechanics, it just reinforces those idiots' shitty play. Because they know they can get away with it...or are simply oblivious to what's going on. And personally, I'd rather just get through a frustrating run than let the group wipe because the dumbass tank ran 80 yards ahead and pulled 3 packs while I'm still drinking from the last time he did that.

[subanark]

Trash is murder on a non-overgeared tank in mythics, bosses aren't as bad. Almost as bad as BC heroics.

[Kaizun]

So, a couple of quick things here. First, I like your writing style, it was entertaining and got your point across, thanks!
Second, probably the obvious response here is 'go with/form your own group'. I have not had this problem running with guildmates, and we actually have people asking if they can come with us (rather than having to look/beg people to join). Mythic+ is cool- however, I've found that mythic+ is really just a challenge for the tank/healer, as you've said, rather than the DPS.
Third, I like your idea about debuffing DPS. They did something to that effect in several LFR fights, though I'm not sure how effective they are at teaching players. Stand where you're not supposed to, and you get stunned. That puts a pretty obvious message across. For example, I'm going to sound like a jerk/elitist here, but when I do Eye of Azshara and the healer doesn't dispel Arcane Bomb, I go stand on the healer. When it stuns them, I repeat 'please dispel Arcane Bomb.' By the time we're done with the boss, they've usually learned to dispel. It might be effective if the game used this more often!

But, to really answer your question, Blizz has tried to change this a few times, and the end result tends to be healers aren't really necessary otherwise. Tanks can hold their own if the healing requirement isn't pretty frantic and you start to get healers swapping to DPS specs just to make the run go faster.

[fangless]

It has to be like this because DPS is the majority of their playerbase.

Every time a healer is able to brute-force their way through idiots ignoring mechanics, it just reinforces those idiots' shitty play. Because they know they can get away with it...or are simply oblivious to what's going on. And personally, I'd rather just get through a frustrating run than let the group wipe because the dumbass tank ran 80 yards ahead and pulled 3 packs while I'm still drinking from the last time he did that.

But even in raids, the damage is just raid-wide, it's going to happen.

You're either sitting at full health, or everyone has 3 debuffs, taking chunks of their hp from raid mechanics while the tanks burn away from boss dots :P


Honestly, that's the reason why it feels so frantic. If the damage isn't heavy, healing with multiple healers isn't hard. It's boring. There's no real middle ground

[Mazeari]

This almost perfectly describe m+ for me. spam that drink buton to drink asap after combat. And spam flash heal on targets that get low. And cry on the inside that their hp bar aint going up. Only to see the tank being instagibbed from full.

[Jazzhands]

Why can't we have more to think about but less to frantically mash our way through? Why can't a DPS failing a mechanic stick that dps with a big damage debuff and some damage instead of just a ridiculous amount of damage for the healer to deal with? Etc.

I like this a lot, as it is now it's not very punishing for a DPS to fail a mechanic, all it does is anger the healer. If they did less damage for getting hit, they would certainly be more aware, can't have that penis score dropping.

[sponge5307]

Or you could tell them they need to wait for you or you ain't healing them. And mean it. If they chain pull and you arne't ready. Don't get up. Keep drinking till your mana is full. You give them fair warning and they don't listen.

When I tank I always wait for healer and even ask if they are ready.

- - - Updated - - -

So, a couple of quick things here. First, I like your writing style, it was entertaining and got your point across, thanks!
Second, probably the obvious response here is 'go with/form your own group'. I have not had this problem running with guildmates, and we actually have people asking if they can come with us (rather than having to look/beg people to join). Mythic+ is cool- however, I've found that mythic+ is really just a challenge for the tank/healer, as you've said, rather than the DPS.
Third, I like your idea about debuffing DPS. They did something to that effect in several LFR fights, though I'm not sure how effective they are at teaching players. Stand where you're not supposed to, and you get stunned. That puts a pretty obvious message across. For example, I'm going to sound like a jerk/elitist here, but when I do Eye of Azshara and the healer doesn't dispel Arcane Bomb, I go stand on the healer. When it stuns them, I repeat 'please dispel Arcane Bomb.' By the time we're done with the boss, they've usually learned to dispel. It might be effective if the game used this more often!

But, to really answer your question, Blizz has tried to change this a few times, and the end result tends to be healers aren't really necessary otherwise. Tanks can hold their own if the healing requirement isn't pretty frantic and you start to get healers swapping to DPS specs just to make the run go faster.

Lol then you get no heals form me. Sometimes BAD DPS stand in shit constantly taking damage it is hard enough to keep them up and you decided to stun me coz I have no time to dispel you. Good job, do you want a cookie too? If you think is easy to heal, then try healing for once. Bad dps stand in shit not getting out of AoE, not repurting like they are suppose to, tanks not using correct CD's and now we have to deal with an A-hole who decides is fun to stun the healer with them coz they feel like it. Grow a pair even if you get stun you won't die, just do less dps. If I have to pick between letting people die or letting you get stun, it will be the later option every single time.

You die won't get the group wipe, but you killing the healer with you most likely will wipe the group. And lot's of dps have their own CD to dispel it. So use your own CD if you have it. I do it. Is easy enough and it doesn't cause you anything.

[Ifeanychukwu]

Couldn't agree more. It's worse than it's ever been. I've been playing as a healer for many years now and I've usually loved those moments when shit hits the fan and I have to go ham to keep the group alive but it feels like every trash pull is like that now and it's almost always because DPS care only about their numbers and not about staying alive. This is the first expansion where I've felt like didn't want to heal anymore because it's just too much of a headache to constantly be carrying the mistakes of bad players or players that just don't care about how hard they make it for the healers. I used to think that playing as DPS was more work because to play at a high level you had to be doing your rotation at optimal efficiency while also avoiding mechanics but after playing as DPS for the first time since Wrath it's actually relaxing and puts me in a sort of zen state. Playing as a healer has made me extra considerate when grouping with others as well. I slow, interrupt, stun and use self mitigation whenever possible. I even toss out a rejuv + swiftmend when I see the healer struggling on particularly nasty trash pulls.

[Deleted]

But even in raids, the damage is just raid-wide, it's going to happen.

You're either sitting at full health, or everyone has 3 debuffs, taking chunks of their hp from raid mechanics while the tanks burn away from boss dots :P


Honestly, that's the reason why it feels so frantic. If the damage isn't heavy, healing with multiple healers isn't hard. It's boring. There's no real middle ground

I tried healing once in WoD LFR, no fun at all since every time anyone takes damage some healer just randomly woops out an AE heal and it's done.
The best times as a healer you have when you are constantly casting spells while everyone stays above 50%. That balance is very hard though since as you said you either have everyone at 100% and you are merely HoTing the tank or shit goes to hell in a handbasket on fire.

[clevin]

when I do Eye of Azshara and the healer doesn't dispel Arcane Bomb, I go stand on the healer. When it stuns them, I repeat 'please dispel Arcane Bomb.' By the time we're done with the boss, they've usually learned to dispel. It might be effective if the game used this more often!

Which puts yet another burden ON THE HEALER.

The fact is that Wrath trained DPS that they could be bad at mechanics and still live. In Vanilla and BC a good DPS not only did high damage, they CCed as needed, moved out of bad (because it mostly could not be healed through) and used health pots etc when needed. Wrath did away will all of that and what's left was DPS that felt that all they needed to do was high damage. The people who didn't like this mostly left, the ones who started in Wrath didn't know any other style. They tried to correct this early in in Cata ("Heroics are hard...") but the loss of subs made them reverse course and... here we are.

[s_bushido]

For example, I'm going to sound like a jerk/elitist here, but when I do Eye of Azshara and the healer doesn't dispel Arcane Bomb, I go stand on the healer. When it stuns them, I repeat 'please dispel Arcane Bomb.' By the time we're done with the boss, they've usually learned to dispel. It might be effective if the game used this more often!.

"I'm going to come into a thread about how healing is stressful to demonstrate that I am one of the very people who enjoy making it even more so."

Congratulations.

[mcbubble]

I think healers have it the worst with mythic plus.

You can never speed a run up, but you can surely slow it down with mana issues.

I also agree with you 100% that it seems very frantic, where you're always one GCD away from someone dying.
It's borderline stressful.

[sponge5307]

Which puts yet another burden ON THE HEALER.

The fact is that Wrath trained DPS that they could be bad at mechanics and still live. In Vanilla and BC a good DPS not only did high damage, they CCed as needed, moved out of bad (because it mostly could not be healed through) and used health pots etc when needed. Wrath did away will all of that and what's left was DPS that felt that all they needed to do was high damage. The people who didn't like this mostly left, the ones who started in Wrath didn't know any other style. They tried to correct this early in in Cata ("Heroics are hard...") but the loss of subs made them reverse course and... here we are.

There are times when I dps on my ret pally and there are AoE or simply the adds/boss have some stuff under them that damages you, tank refuse to move them to another spot. I don't jump in to dps, I stay out doing nothing till the tank are smart enough to reposition the add/boss. I pretty much stop healing due to the fact of poor dps and tanks not taking the time to move out of things. Is too stressful and I rather enjoy as a dps less stressful. Is a shame coz I love healing (I heal on my druid, holy pally and resto shammy back in WoLk heroic and Cata). Even heal a bit in BC and man in those days everyone is aware of what's going on and DPS actually CC, move out of shit, is more about CCing adds and knowing the fights then dpsing. I wish WoW would go back to those days, where one mistake would kill you.

[Tijuana]

You're only ever 1 GCD from failure, it feels like.

Spam your fastest heals on the tank. Panic while you watch hp bars at 10% while you try to cast that ae heal that takes a nearly-endless 1.85 seconds to finish. Struggle against mechanics that force movement while also dealing tons of damage. Try to sneak in 4 seconds of a mage biscuit between pulls since there's no such thing as mana conservation in dungeons and you know you'll need a bunch of mana for the next fight that the tank and dps have already started 65 yards ahead of you since they have no direct incentive to slow down as long as youre willing to bust your ass to keep them alive.

I feel like Dagny Taggart and Hank Reardon in every mythic (and especially mythic+) I run, burning my candle at both ends to let the other 4 people in the group play exactly the way they want to and not a bit differently, secure in the knowledge that they can probably get away with blaming the healer if anyone dies even if it was their tunnelvision on meters and a timer that truly caused the deaths.

Why does it have to be like this? What ever happened to those times Blizzard said they were going to boost hp pools relative to damage coming in so that a player PVPing can't die in a stun lock to another single player, or a tank can't be dropped in 3 seconds from full? To them saying they didn't want content to be just a mad spam of the most powerful spells? To the days when tanks had aggro to worry about so they couldn't just facepull 3 trash packs at once to be AEed down? To the days when DPS, too, could oom or pull threat if they weren't at least a little careful?

Or am I just bad and/or playing with bads?


Why can't we have more to think about but less to frantically mash our way through? Why can't a DPS failing a mechanic stick that dps with a big damage debuff and some damage instead of just a ridiculous amount of damage for the healer to deal with? Etc.

So you think the solution to bad play is to change the game? You think they should, via game design, make it so it doesn't matter if you play badly? Wouldn't that just be a Facebook game at that point?

[Neliah]

woahh I love this. A dps tunnel-vision-ing and stepping in bad doesn't kill them, causing the healer to get fucked over, rather the dps now does 50% less dmg for 15 sec, yes! Now they will pay attention to mechanics >

Oh... my god... This needs to be in the game. 15 seconds doesn't cut it, make it 20.

[classic username]

"I'm going to come into a thread about how healing is stressful to demonstrate that I am one of the very people who enjoy making it even more so."

Congratulations.

there is NOTHING going on that makes a Healer forget about dispelling Arcane bomb

so pls...

[Jazzhands]

So, a couple of quick things here. First, I like your writing style, it was entertaining and got your point across, thanks!
Second, probably the obvious response here is 'go with/form your own group'. I have not had this problem running with guildmates, and we actually have people asking if they can come with us (rather than having to look/beg people to join). Mythic+ is cool- however, I've found that mythic+ is really just a challenge for the tank/healer, as you've said, rather than the DPS.
Third, I like your idea about debuffing DPS. They did something to that effect in several LFR fights, though I'm not sure how effective they are at teaching players. Stand where you're not supposed to, and you get stunned. That puts a pretty obvious message across. For example, I'm going to sound like a jerk/elitist here, but when I do Eye of Azshara and the healer doesn't dispel Arcane Bomb, I go stand on the healer. When it stuns them, I repeat 'please dispel Arcane Bomb.' By the time we're done with the boss, they've usually learned to dispel. It might be effective if the game used this more often!

But, to really answer your question, Blizz has tried to change this a few times, and the end result tends to be healers aren't really necessary otherwise. Tanks can hold their own if the healing requirement isn't pretty frantic and you start to get healers swapping to DPS specs just to make the run go faster.

The problem with this is that you didn't mess anything up here, it's purely on the healer to dispel it, so this type of thing wouldn't give you a damage debuff under the system OP is presenting, because it's a healer mechanic that punishes healers, not a DPS mechanic that punishes healers, which they have no control over.

Edit: Well, dropping it on the healers like that is intentionally messing up, but if you run out like you should and don't get dispelled, that's on healers.