Fury Legion Discussion

[Deleted]

If you start with RB instead of OF you get another RB before BC expires, provided you have enough haste. BC+BT -> RB -> OF -> BT -> RB

If short-term burst is critical (e.g adds) and you have even more haste you can also do BC+BT -> RB -> OF -> Rampage -> RB but I'm pretty sure it ends up being a DPS loss in the medium-long term.

[Deleted]

im fine with middle of the pack obviously i wouldnt mind being at the top but seems sort of balanced apart from the top 3 or 4. atleast both arms and fury seem to be simming similarly atleast. im happy

[Deleted]

If you start with RB instead of OF you get another RB before BC expires, provided you have enough haste. BC+BT -> RB -> OF -> BT -> RB

If short-term burst is critical (e.g adds) and you have even more haste you can also do BT+BC -> RB -> OF -> Rampage -> RB but I'm pretty sure it ends up being a DPS loss in the medium-long term.

Running with 31% haste, I end up doing the last RB at the last 0.1 second left on BC ... I don't think it's worth taking the "risk" of a micro lag spike / moving add / whatever. To me at least. But you're right, it's definitely the better opening

[Deleted]

Is it a gain to delay BT and cast FS when already enraged? I seem to get higher enrage uptimes this way. Results in less BT casts overall though.

[Anbokr]

I think nerf to Arms is too much and might be toned down before Wednesday.

I hope so, but I like how the devs conveniently leave out arms in their "we're still evaluating" post.

[Ellianar]

Is it a gain to delay BT and cast FS when already enraged? I seem to get higher enrage uptimes this way. Results in less BT casts overall though.

Not with the focus on Haste of late. I believe Arch adressed that point a few pages back in this thread.

[Deleted]

I hope so, but I like how the devs conveniently leave out arms in their "we're still evaluating" post.

That's because they legitimately won't touch Arms as they've sorted what needed to be sorted.

I'm Arms until the end, it'll get buffed again at some point when Blizzard learn how bad the EtW nerf is.

[PenguinJim]

Wish I could switch to Fury, but you know...2 Arms-specific Legendaries. If I switch then those are completely wasted. Great game designing, Blizzard.

[Tellof]

Wish I could switch to Fury, but you know...2 Arms-specific Legendaries. If I switch then those are completely wasted. Great game designing, Blizzard.

If you want to play Fury more than you want to play Arms with 2 Legendaries, then it sounds like you should have just played Fury all along. If you never switch you'll never get those new Legendaries. You could also loot spec as Fury and stick with Arms until you get something.

[MORGATH99]

just a few buffs more for fury and we are golden

[Artunias]

Odyn's Champ and Rage of the Valarjar both feel like they could proc a lot more reliably.

Aside from that they absolutely need to address execute phase mechanics. It's the same shit show it's been for over half a year. Even with massacre and juggernaut the button is hardly worth pressing in any kind of non raid content. And in raid content if your stacks reset you're fucking done anyway.

The problems with the spec aren't tuning so much as they are mechanical, something we droned on about endlessly for months on the beta feedback threads. I'm still holding out to see what 7.1 brings, but in the meantime I'll continue to enjoy my WW Monk and throw in my occasional bitches about warriors XD

Honestly, I think their class team bit off far, far more than they could ever have hoped to chew. I'm not sure why they thought they could redesign almost every single spec and come out in a good shape when they haven't even been able to balance existing specs in previous expansions.

[Anbokr]

Keep posting on those wow forums in general guys, make our voices heard. Locks, spriests, DH's keep piling them with voices and they listen. We're always getting drowned out though and aren't on the radar.

[Artunias]

Some thoughts on Execute/Juggernaut.

Massacre Baseline

This literally solves every single issue with the execute rotation.

1) It keeps your enrage handicap active
2) It keeps Odyn's Champion procs active
3) Looking forward it also keeps Rampage active in the rotation. Which as the shiny new button for the spec I'm sure will have future set bonuses based around it. In addition to the current artifact abilities.

From there all they have to do is cap Juggernaut. As massacre easing your ability to stack Juggernaut is the only thing that makes it too good. In any execute phase that lasts less than 40 seconds (hint: just about all of them) it's simply balanced and makes execute a general increase to use.

For any execute phase that lasts longer, capping Juggernaut keeps it balanced. If they would extend the duration to 12 seconds, it would let the fury execute phase be reliable. Instead of completely dicking you when that random mechanic causes you to lose your stacks.

And when the stacks are capped it's ok to maintain stacks because it's not stacking to this mythical wonderland of infinity. And can actually you know... be balanced. What a novel concept.

All of these reasons why it's not that strong except in rare situations is also why it feels pretty shitty to take as a talent. It's only useful in raid settings, it's not worth taking in any other setting because it's only strong in long execute phases. And only becomes exceedingly strong in prolonged execute phases (90+ seconds) hey look another issue that's solved with a cap on Juggernaut.

Even with massacre execute has a small ramp up time to be a dps gain over your normal rotation. And is subject to some decent rng at the same time in a short window of opportunity that any non raid boss execute phase is going to be. Even Mythic+ execute phases don't last longer than 25-30 seconds at best.

[Archimtiros]

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html

no idea if this has been linked already, but new sims shows Fury to be ABOVE Arms.

TBH if they would bring down top3 DPS from the chart, the balance would look semi-decent. Except few bottom-liners.

That's because people keep fucking with the public profiles. Someone has inflated the hell out of Fury gear and lowballed Arms (near perfect BiS, plus 2 2p sets from Arcway/Court), while Arms is using a Crit trinket?).

This is the problem with public projects.

- - - Updated - - -

Some thoughts on Execute/Juggernaut.

Massacre Baseline

This literally solves every single issue with the execute rotation.

1) It keeps your enrage handicap active
2) It keeps Odyn's Champion procs active
3) Looking forward it also keeps Rampage active in the rotation. Which as the shiny new button for the spec I'm sure will have future set bonuses based around it. In addition to the current artifact abilities.

From there all they have to do is cap Juggernaut. As massacre easing your ability to stack Juggernaut is the only thing that makes it too good. In any execute phase that lasts less than 40 seconds (hint: just about all of them) it's simply balanced and makes execute a general increase to use.

For any execute phase that lasts longer, capping Juggernaut keeps it balanced. If they would extend the duration to 12 seconds, it would let the fury execute phase be reliable. Instead of completely dicking you when that random mechanic causes you to lose your stacks.

And when the stacks are capped it's ok to maintain stacks because it's not stacking to this mythical wonderland of infinity. And can actually you know... be balanced. What a novel concept.

All of these reasons why it's not that strong except in rare situations is also why it feels pretty shitty to take as a talent. It's only useful in raid settings, it's not worth taking in any other setting because it's only strong in long execute phases. And only becomes exceedingly strong in prolonged execute phases (90+ seconds) hey look another issue that's solved with a cap on Juggernaut.

Even with massacre execute has a small ramp up time to be a dps gain over your normal rotation. And is subject to some decent rng at the same time in a short window of opportunity that any non raid boss execute phase is going to be. Even Mythic+ execute phases don't last longer than 25-30 seconds at best.

Actually I think Massacre should have been the artifact trait (thereby allowing everyone to have access to it), and Juggernaut the talent. That would leave the (stupid imo, but they want it) ability to choose between building for short/cleave fights (Carnage) and longer/single target focus (Juggernaut).

Juggernaut definitely needs some love though. Damage aside, I've suggested that it needs a long duration, but even that is only a stopgap which introduces other potential problems with chaining it between targets. Someone on discord suggested making it a debuff on the target rather than a buff on the player, which would handle the issue perfectly in my opinion.

[Artunias]

Actually I think Massacre should have been the artifact trait (thereby allowing everyone to have access to it), and Juggernaut the talent. That would leave the (stupid imo, but they want it) ability to choose between building for short/cleave fights (Carnage) and longer/single target focus (Juggernaut).

Juggernaut definitely needs some love though. Damage aside, I've suggested that it needs a long duration, but even that is only a stopgap which introduces other potential problems with chaining it between targets. Someone on discord suggested making it a debuff on the target rather than a buff on the player, which would handle the issue perfectly in my opinion.

Yeah, that would work too. They'd probably need to up the damage of baseline execute a bit though (another 5-8%) IMO.

[Haveth]

When are they N/H/M public sims going to be up? Aren't they usually available by now? The 840 templates with 19 points in their artifact don't really tell much when most people are well beyond that now.

[Dancaris]

Just a random thought.
What if combine BT and Rampage?
Rise ragecap to 200, remove inner rage, BT now cost 50rage and enrage you and have 4.5s cd.
RB now generate 5-10rage, crit strikes doubles rage. usable only in enrage,
Fs (with great sound) reduces ragecost (-10 rage and stacks).
With that rotation would be like: Charge->bt->rb->rb (burst phase actualy).
With Reckless Abandon it will be much more reliable rotation.
Buff WW and FS to be worth used in aoe/st.
Execute will buff rageregen for smooth execute phase with ragecost like 20.
With more crit/haste it will be more bt-rb-rb phases then fs'ing.
Also its making much more reliable to actualy play. You can stack more rage to burst more and find best time to burst.

[orgonutil]

Just a random thought.
What if combine BT and Rampage?
Rise ragecap to 200, remove inner rage, BT now cost 50rage and enrage you and have 4.5s cd.
RB now generate 5-10rage, crit strikes doubles rage. usable only in enrage,
Fs (with great sound) reduces ragecost (-10 rage and stacks).
With that rotation would be like: Charge->bt->rb->rb (burst phase actualy).
With Reckless Abandon it will be much more reliable rotation.
Buff WW and FS to be worth used in aoe/st.
Execute will buff rageregen for smooth execute phase with ragecost like 20.
With more crit/haste it will be more bt-rb-rb phases then fs'ing.
Also its making much more reliable to actualy play. You can stack more rage to burst more and find best time to burst.

they never change deep core mechanics in the middle of the exp, forget that

[Urve]

The arms profile in the latest sim looks pretty reasonable to me. 87% mastery and no crit trinkets. Are we looking at the same thing?

[Delmore]

As a bit of a thing, I found myself not wanting to enrage last night when the tank died on a mythic run (silly wardens). It seems counterintuitive to want to do less damage, but its whatever.