Thread: Shadow Nerfs

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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by RsinRC View Post
    What is is like to be at the bottom of charts?
    I'll never know, won't get invited.

  2. #182
    Well they just deleted the petition thread from the Blizz priest forms which was 16 pages, the majority of which was valid and constructive criticism and ideas on possible changes to mainly the lvl 100 talents...

    So we can expect the following:

    1) No change to their announced nerfs thus destroying shadow.
    or
    2) Revert to the announced nerfs followed by them breaking something else.

    What needs to stop is the few blizz d*ck riders that say there is nothing wrong with the spec by bring up either Xavius #s or the fact their guild either a) has horrible players who make the Spriest look good or b) carries their Spriest through Mythic+ and thus think we are fine.... Blizz has a tendency to listen to the small number of casual players (and in PVP cases other classes) when addressing issues.

    I was in the Beta and complained long and hard about our lvl 100 talents after running through many iterations over the months... All i saw as every single comment or post on the beta forums ignored... Oh like i mentioned they did make large pvp changes after a feral druid whined and complained in the priest forums while ignoring numerous R1 spriests who countered...

    Played an Spriest for 9 years now and while my guild by no means chases world 1sts we are pretty skilled and compete with the top guilds on our server.. Tomorrow will be the first time in 9 years being benched for an entire raid (yes there has been times Ive been asked to sit on specific fights due to mechanics). And I have to say if I was the RL i would do the same.

  3. #183
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocedic View Post
    No, shadowpriest is not the strongest raiding class. .
    I think currently shadow is the strongest raiding class and probably by a far margin. Not that we do more damage, even if on some fights it might be possible, but rather than we do more than half of it in the last 30% of the boss. That is to say by stacking priests you can significantly simplifying the hardest phase of a boss simply by making harder (in more or less the same magnitude) the other phases.


    The three nerf focus on this problem, MH+120s StM was simply insane so I think in that aspect it's a good thing and more important an absolutely needed thing. On the other hand it also nerf everything else and doesn't address at all the many areas where we are weak or terrible.

    As it was said early in the beta StM is going to be impossible to balance because we simply have way too much synergy in execute (ToF, StM, MH and SW each of which is an important buff in execute phase).

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by nenyim View Post
    I think currently shadow is the strongest raiding class and probably by a far margin. Not that we do more damage, even if on some fights it might be possible, but rather than we do more than half of it in the last 30% of the boss. That is to say by stacking priests you can significantly simplifying the hardest phase of a boss simply by making harder (in more or less the same magnitude) the other phases.


    The three nerf focus on this problem, MH+120s StM was simply insane so I think in that aspect it's a good thing and more important an absolutely needed thing. On the other hand it also nerf everything else and doesn't address at all the many areas where we are weak or terrible.

    As it was said early in the beta StM is going to be impossible to balance because we simply have way too much synergy in execute (ToF, StM, MH and SW each of which is an important buff in execute phase).
    That's still something that varies with fight. My experience with raids thus far has been wipes early. Granted, I did use S2M to help cobble together a close victory over heroic Spider last night when quite a few people had died, but most of our failed attempts were clearly failed in the first or second phases. You definitely can't get by stacking more and more shadowpriests - you need the upfront consistent damage of the top tier damage classes to even bring the fight to execute range to begin with.

    Also, ignoring that, I think I would rather my class be balanced and be able to be strong at M+ (and PvP outside of specific 3's comps), not just raiding. It doesn't feel good to be weak/mediocre 95% of the time, then a living god in extreme situations.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by nenyim View Post
    I think currently shadow is the strongest raiding class and probably by a far margin. Not that we do more damage, even if on some fights it might be possible, but rather than we do more than half of it in the last 30% of the boss. That is to say by stacking priests you can significantly simplifying the hardest phase of a boss simply by making harder (in more or less the same magnitude) the other phases.


    The three nerf focus on this problem, MH+120s StM was simply insane so I think in that aspect it's a good thing and more important an absolutely needed thing. On the other hand it also nerf everything else and doesn't address at all the many areas where we are weak or terrible.

    As it was said early in the beta StM is going to be impossible to balance because we simply have way too much synergy in execute (ToF, StM, MH and SW each of which is an important buff in execute phase).
    Shadow priest is far from the strongest raiding class in the game.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1853 Nythendra 11# DPS
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1873 Il'gynoth 7# DPS
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1876 Elerethe Renferal 7# DPS
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1841 Ursoc 5# DPS
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1854 Dragons 1# DPS because we're strong multi target
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1877 Cenarius 3# DPS
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1864 Xavius #1 DPS BECAUSE WE CAN StM TWICE, if they stopped that we wouldn't be top.

    Mage, Rogue, and Hunter are way stronger raiding classes. You're dreaming if you believe Spriest is the best raiding spec. All they had to do was fix double StM with Xavius and we would be COMPLETELY FINE.

  6. #186
    There's also the fact that Mage, Rogue, and Hunter are leagues easier than Shadow and don't punish you with death if you fuck up or get targeted by a gimmick.

  7. #187
    Again..... please, please stop with the "shadow is one of the top raiding classes" or shadow is fine because we do well on one or two raid encounters....

    And yes please stack priests for those encounters because we'll ROFTL stomp the shzz out of the execute phase... Oh wait our far far below average dps for the first 65% of the encounter means boss enrages before we even hit execute....

    Is it so hard to stop and think that maybe priests want their class to be somewhat viable outside of one or two specific scenarios in the entire game...

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Minti - Lightbringer View Post
    You mean the fight you can use a 10 min cd twice? The only fight in existence where this is possible? Yeah fuck me im glad we're not balancing around outliers eh.

    You get roughly 25% more voidforms throughout the fight by taking S2M, so the talent has to be crazy good when you use it to just make up the damage lost by not having voidform as much throughout the other 80% of the fight. And even then it has to make up the damage you don't have on the pull with burst cds that everyone else has. Looking at fancy graphs means fuck all when it doesnt show the true picture.
    .
    Good job being another idiot who can't read.

    It specifically says it is the last phase damage, as in 30% -> 0%.

    Infracted - Djriff
    Last edited by Djriff; 2016-09-26 at 11:06 PM.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Good job being another idiot who can't read.

    It specifically says it is the last phase damage, as in 30% -> 0%.
    So you're insulting people while cherry picking data that supports your argument? Why don't you have a look at where Spriests stand as a whole on the rest of the bosses?

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocedic View Post
    So you're insulting people while cherry picking data that supports your argument? Why don't you have a look at where Spriests stand as a whole on the rest of the bosses?
    1. Different specs have different strengths.
    2. Shadow Priest strength is execute damage
    3. Rest of the bosses don't matter. Xavius is the end boss.
    4. Last phase of Xavius is by far the most intense.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    3. Rest of the bosses don't matter. Xavius is the end boss.
    This is a stupid mentality. Do you go into the raid every night, ONLY do Xavius, and leave? No? Then the other bosses also matter.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    1. Different specs have different strengths.
    2. Shadow Priest strength is execute damage
    3. Rest of the bosses don't matter. Xavius is the end boss.
    4. Last phase of Xavius is by far the most intense.
    Getting to Xavius is either non-trivial for a progressing guild, in which case your argument that Xavius is the only thing that matters goes out the window, or if a guild has everything on farm, having high non-Spriest DPS to kill all the other content faster will save way more time than Spriests excelling at one phase on one fight. Either way, your argument that Xavius is the be all and end all of raiding is ridiculous. There is also more content very soon in the pipeline so even if one were to accept your proposition that Xavius is all that matters, that won't be the case very soon.

    It also fails to address that raiding is not the only content, and Spriests flail in M+ and are middle of the pack on most raiding bosses. Different specs do have different strengths, but asking the only strength of a class being one boss is not acceptable.

  13. #193
    I've been raiding wrong this entire time. Killing bosses that don't matter. How do I skip straight to mythic xavius next week so I can fight the only boss that matters?

    Also, if our only strength is supposed to be execute (void torrent nerf will see to any of that pesky damage we did before S2M with shorter void forms), am I supposed to just half afk progression until we finally get to a pull that we hit execute on?

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    2. Shadow Priest strength is execute damage
    gota admit this gave me the lolz

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    I've been raiding wrong this entire time. Killing bosses that don't matter. How do I skip straight to mythic xavius next week so I can fight the only boss that matters?

    Also, if our only strength is supposed to be execute (void torrent nerf will see to any of that pesky damage we did before S2M with shorter void forms), am I supposed to just half afk progression until we finally get to a pull that we hit execute on?
    But of course! Didnt you know??


    Like Twain said; you cant argue with stupid......

    I dont know what is worse, when a person who plays a different class gets so butthurt they are beaten on one aspect of one fight that they have to come in and argue that a spec is fine with BS data cherry picked from that one fight.. or the fact that Blizzard usually listens to them and not the actually class community.
    Last edited by Myzeree; 2016-09-26 at 09:28 PM.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    1. Different specs have different strengths.
    2. Shadow Priest strength is execute damage
    3. Rest of the bosses don't matter. Xavius is the end boss.
    4. Last phase of Xavius is by far the most intense.
    I don't understand, where are mods? Why is this MM clown allowed to troll on our forum and have no punishment?
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  17. #197
    I'm not sure of names but I've seen a posts today in this thread that makes me think someone is just posting random inane stuff to stir everyone up. It's getting harder to separate the real comments, and the fake ones seem to generate like a page worth of posts...
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    DPS Loss - my guild on Proudmoore
    The Old Guard - my guild on Earthen Ring
    Revenant - my guild on Echo Isles

  18. #198
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by -Cynical- View Post
    Shadow priest is far from the strongest raiding class in the game.
    So you stop reading after the first sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Cynical- View Post
    Mage, Rogue, and Hunter are way stronger raiding classes. You're dreaming if you believe Spriest is the best raiding spec. All they had to do was fix double StM with Xavius and we would be COMPLETELY FINE.
    Maybe I am but you didn't even try to give the shadow of an explanation as to why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myzeree View Post
    And yes please stack priests for those encounters because we'll ROFTL stomp the shzz out of the execute phase... Oh wait our far far below average dps for the first 65% of the encounter means boss enrages before we even hit execute....

    As we currently are there are two possibilities, either we do comparable damage to other classes or we don't. If we do what you say make no sense, the damage at the end of the fight will be comparable and therefore the time to kill the boss will also be comparable but the difference is that we did most of ours DPS in the execute phase so stacking SP has for effect to make the early part of the fight longer in order to make the later part shorter, which means top guild will effectively bypass execute by stacking them. Or we don't do comparable damage in which case we need to be buffed and this buffed can't significantly buff the execute phase or we'll end back up in case number 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myzeree View Post
    or shadow is fine because we do well on one or two raid encounters....
    First what I said doesn't apply to one or two encounters but to all encounters with an execute phase that really matter, which cover more than one or two encounters this raid.

    Secondly I didn't say shadow was fine, I think it's in an horrible situation mostly due to StM but the problem is also accentuated by the number of things that synergyze with StM. I don't think we can even not be complete trash outside of execute in raid until they actually take our execute back to a reasonable level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myzeree View Post
    Is it so hard to stop and think that maybe priests want their class to be somewhat viable outside of one or two specific scenarios in the entire game...
    Which require a huge nerf on our execute. Literally the only thing we are doing well is execute single targets and we are doing it amazingly well. Until we aren't so far ahead in this will continue to be terrible everywhere else. I want the execute to be nerf, which to be fair is what the hotfixs plan to do even if they forgot to even try to address how terrible we are at anything else, precisely as to viable outside of a single thing.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by nenyim View Post
    So you stop reading after the first sentence.



    Maybe I am but you didn't even try to give the shadow of an explanation as to why.




    As we currently are there are two possibilities, either we do comparable damage to other classes or we don't. If we do what you say make no sense, the damage at the end of the fight will be comparable and therefore the time to kill the boss will also be comparable but the difference is that we did most of ours DPS in the execute phase so stacking SP has for effect to make the early part of the fight longer in order to make the later part shorter, which means top guild will effectively bypass execute by stacking them. Or we don't do comparable damage in which case we need to be buffed and this buffed can't significantly buff the execute phase or we'll end back up in case number 1.



    First what I said doesn't apply to one or two encounters but to all encounters with an execute phase that really matter, which cover more than one or two encounters this raid.

    Secondly I didn't say shadow was fine, I think it's in an horrible situation mostly due to StM but the problem is also accentuated by the number of things that synergyze with StM. I don't think we can even not be complete trash outside of execute in raid until they actually take our execute back to a reasonable level.



    Which require a huge nerf on our execute. Literally the only thing we are doing well is execute single targets and we are doing it amazingly well. Until we aren't so far ahead in this will continue to be terrible everywhere else. I want the execute to be nerf, which to be fair is what the hotfixs plan to do even if they forgot to even try to address how terrible we are at anything else, precisely as to viable outside of a single thing.
    I think I see what you are getting at and agree that this whole mess of a talent STM is the root of all our issues. That said are you prepared to wait who knows how long for them to correct this all the while falling way behind the rest of your group as they progress while you are stapled to the bench? By the time they fix it we will be so far behind everyone else it will be almost impossible to catch up. And too bad you cant use Mythic+'s to keep up gear wise as we will be even worse in those as well.

    And to just slap us in the face by giving us a 50% increase to arguably the worst AOE talent in the game in mind sear, just rubs salt in the wound... I guess you could look at the positives and say we wont be 500K dps behind on AOE only 450K now, never mind that it will displace mindflay in a rotation with 2+ enemies (maybe even ST) thus affecting our artifact talents (on top of the MH nerf) which is something they said would not happen during tuning..

  20. #200
    Deleted
    Wouldnt this whole nerf/conversation go away if they made coming out of the dream not reset 10m cds on Xavius.

    Then I could see the dispersion nerf sure, makes sense.

    Leave VTorrent and MH alone.

    Buff MSear by 300% on mobs with no dots.

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