Suamar just doesn't feel like it belongs to nightborne/night elf

[Beloren]

In the beginning, there were dark trolls. The dark trolls were transformed by Elune into the night elves. Night elves were generally how you know them now, but social classes began to develop. The highborne were just night elves, but "high class" ones who decided to live in elaborate cities and practice arcane magic and be all snobby and stuff. At this point though, there's just one race, with different people focusing on different things.

Then came the War of the Ancients, and everything gets crazy. For the most part, non-highborne night elves ended up fine, and are the ones we know today. The highborne, however, got split. Some of them were at the epicenter of the Sundering and became the first naga. Some of them were exiled. These would lose their lifespans and have shorter lived children. These would become the high elves. After the Sunwell's destruction, some of those became the blood elves. Some of the highborne simply hid themselves away. These would rejoin the night elves and make night elf mage playable. One group of highborne decided to turn against the rest, they sealed themselves away to survive and would become the nightborne.

Suramar does look like it has a lot in common with blood elves, and that's entirely intentional. Both the nightborne and blood elves come from the original highborne (although the nightborne are literally some of the original highborne, while the blood elves are simply descended from some of the others). There's a reason the high and blood elves build buildings like they do, and this is one of the reasons why. Also, the fact that the high elves relied on the Sunwell, and had a hard time coping with its loss, is essentially the exact same thing the nightborne are dealing with when it comes to the Nightwell. It's clearly a sensitivity the race as a whole has (perhaps because of their initial transformation at the Well of Eternity).

Indeed, it looks a lot like a blood elf place, and it seems pointless to have the nightborne around, they should get rid of them and have the blood elves take over the place. btw, weren't all the night elves arcane, not just some of them? I thought the highborne were just the most powerful of the night elf magic users, I thought they all ditched nature to pursue their arcane curiousity, not just some of them. Wasn't it after the sundering that Malfurion led his group back to nature, but the others didn't have it - I don't know why blizzard brought the other groups back - they could have used the high elves to be the alliance arcane elves.

I think the horde/alliance thing really has messed up the whole thing - it's probably why you get arcane night elves, and now nightborne -- hmm, I've got it - the nightborne weren't made for just no reason, they are basically the blood elves on the night elf side ! - oh, that's why they are so similar to the blood elves, they are giving the night elves the blood elf treatment.

Do you like that? it's a bit funny since the night elves have looked down on the blood elves for having arcane addiction issues, and now their ancient city is full of nightborne elves having a much worse case - lol

[WintersLegion]

All the more reason for the blood elves to replace the nightborne.. what's the point with having nightborne and blood elves? it's the same thing.

I've got it. since they are so similar, the same thing, except Blood elf is much nicer, kick the nightborne out, let them go live with the naga or the night elves, and then the blood elves can live. I don't see the point in having both the nightborne and the blood elf in the same place. Too similar.

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really? I didn't know that.. I thought it was a night elf city, or did they make a mistake on the opening cinematic..pls say they did.

No they didn't make a mistake Night Elves and Highborn were the same race when the city was built it wasn't until the events of the War of the Ancients that they separated as a race.

[Beloren]

how does the city not look like its nightborne? wtf...? how do you know what nightborne architecture is suppose to look like?

I meant they just don't look like they are supposed to fit there, they look more like servants, the ones that should be service men, I mean that's what they look like.. they even have that pinched butler face - you know like the snubby English butler, just dark skinned instead. It's just how it feels

[DarkTZeratul]

so they say, but night elves feel more tree, blood elves feel more city

That's because the blood elves are descended from the more "city" night elves, while the current night elves are those who turned away from their pre-Sundering society and went the more druidic nature-y route. The Nightborne are those same city night elves from before the War of the Ancients; it would be weird if they WEREN'T similar to the blood elves.

[Beloren]

No they didn't make a mistake Night Elves and Highborn were the same race when the city was built it wasn't until the events of the War of the Ancients that they separated as a race.

Highborne became 3 different races right? High elves, naga and nightborne right. So nightborne are not related to night elves, but are instead related to high elves and naga and satyr.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Huh funny, I was just thinking the exact opposite. Surprising.

[Beloren]

That's because the blood elves are descended from the more "city" night elves, while the current night elves are those who turned away from their pre-Sundering society and went the more druidic nature-y route. The Nightborne are those same city night elves from before the War of the Ancients; it would be weird if they WEREN'T similar to the blood elves.

I still find it hard to believe blood elves had anything to do with night elves, let alone came from them. That is disappointing, and one thing I don't like about the story. They should have made the nightborne look like the High elves, and called them bloodborne or highborne.

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Huh funny, I was just thinking the exact opposite. Surprising.

lol.. come over to the horde side... join the blood elf revolution

[FelPlague]

I meant they just don't look like they are supposed to fit there, they look more like servants, the ones that should be service men, I mean that's what they look like.. they even have that pinched butler face - you know like the snubby English butler, just dark skinned instead. It's just how it feels

... no i dont because that sounds like the words of a idiot "They look like butlers cause dey got pinched faces" so all people with glasses must be teachers or librarians?

[Moriahari]

I meant they just don't look like they are supposed to fit there, they look more like servants, the ones that should be service men, I mean that's what they look like.. they even have that pinched butler face - you know like the snubby English butler, just dark skinned instead. It's just how it feels

So just cause they got dark skin they supposed to be servants??? Kidding. but OT: I think this may be conditioning since it seems you are coming from a Horde perspective. On that side Dark skinned elves have always been in the trees while big shiny cities have the light skinned elves, but all the lore supports that they are from the same origin and this is that origin cut off from the sun for 10k years.

[WintersLegion]

Highborne became 3 different races right? High elves, naga and nightborne right. So nightborne are not related to night elves, but are instead related to high elves and naga and satyr.

No Nightelves and Highborne were the same race it's just that Nightelves were the side of the society that was more into nature while Highborne were the ones more into arcane magic because of the war 10k years ago the Nightelves went on to sever all ties with the Highborne because of their use of arcane magic. During that time the group of Highborn that stuck with Queen Azshara were mutated by the Old Gods into naga. And for the rest the ones of Suramar city erected a shield rather than fight the demons leaving them dependent on the Nightwell which mutated them into Nightborne. Than you have regular Highborn who there are a few still around but most became very recently the Blood Elves a lot of which have the same addiction to the Sunwell that Nightborne have to the Nightwell but it isn't the entire race since they are more spread out.

[Iflash]

I knew it was only a matter of time until we got a blood elf supremacist.

[Calfredd]

I knew it was only a matter of time until we got a blood elf supremacist.

Didn't we already have one or two of those? We got someone who worships the Lich King, a new account who worships Grom and Garrosh, someone who thinks the Scarlet Crusade was and is always in the right, and whatever Breadisfunny and Celestia have going on.

[Beloren]

No Nightelves and Highborne were the same race it's just that Nightelves were the side of the society that was more into nature while Highborne were the ones more into arcane magic.

I don't get this bit either, I thought ALL the night elves were into arcane, the only thing I recall them saying about the highborne is that hey were the most powerful of arcane users and were generally thenight elf nobility/leadership. I thought the split between arcane and nature only came AFTER the sundering when night elves learnt the ways of nature properly from Malfurion taught by Cenarius, and then some Highborne became high elves continuing arcane, whiles other highborne societies like Dire Maul continued, but Suramar was where you had the full mixture highborne led, but non-highborne also - and they also continued in the arcane.

there were no two sides of their society.. it was all the same side, just elites and non-elites, just like in Suramar now. At least that's what I thought. But one thing I feel is that if feels odd to see night elves in a place like Suramar even though the lore puts them there, I surely cannot be the only ones to think it odd that Suramar is a Night Elf city, when you think of night elves you think of ruins, trees and quiet forests left over grown and abandoned with hidden elves.

I don't like that , but someone's got to be the boring group right? Might as well be them. And I don't condemn blizzard for changing it if they want to, I'm just saying it feels odd atm, maybe it might not later..but I tried really feeling for them, but they just don't look like they fit.

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I knew it was only a matter of time until we got a blood elf supremacist.

nothing wrong with that, you are a blood elf too judging by that avatar right, come on, don't you think Blood elves should be in that city instead? They should have done it for the blood elves.. would have been nice to have the crowning jewel of the Broken Isles be a blood elf city, blood elves should feature in an Elf expansion. I thought night elves didn't really leave the forests - why have them trapped in a city?


I guess it's as good a story, but now I want to play Blood elves more, and every time I go to Silvermoon, I just feel, it's so much more richly decorated, only if the outside looked a bit more like Suramar, then I thought, why not just port the blood elves to Suramar instead and have them take over the place, they'll do a much better job.

[Calfredd]

nothing wrong with that, you are a blood elf too judging by that avatar right, come on, don't you think Blood elves should be in that city instead? They should have done it for the blood elves.. would have been nice to have the crowning jewel of the Broken Isles be a blood elf city, blood elves should feature in an Elf expansion. I thought night elves didn't really leave the forests - why have them trapped in a city?


I guess it's as good a story, but now I want to play Blood elves more, and every time I go to Silvermoon, I just feel, it's so much more richly decorated, only if the outside looked a bit more like Suramar, then I thought, why not just port the blood elves to Suramar instead and have them take over the place, they'll do a much better job.

First, him/her being a blood elf has nothing to do with their avatar since that's an X-man. Second, at least admit you don't want to see the differences between the elves instead of constantly feigning ignorance despite everyone here explaining to you why things are how they are. Starting to get a bit silly seeing you constantly acting thick.

[Faerillis]

Ok, the Nightborne are an even more Magically-Inclined people than the Blood Elves, for one. Two the Night Elven society they left behind when they sequestered themselves 10,000 years ago was a society built on the Arcane; Druids hardly existed for little more than the blink of an eye in terms of their society.

And you think that Suramar doesn't feel suited for them? Look if this kind of information was secreted away in the novels, not really clear to the world, then I would understand your issue but FFS, Blizzard fucking BROWBEATS you with this information in game! The divisions in Night Elven society after the War of the Ancients is only told to you in:
Any zone with a Night Elf Ruin in Vanilla/Cata-revamped Zones, the Mount Hyjal Raid, the Well of Eternity Dungeon, Val'sharah, Azsuna, Suramar, the Dire Maul dungeon complex, Black Rook Hold, Eye of Azshara and anywhere you find a Highborne Mage.
Not to mention the fact that the Faction you fight alongside in Suramar are so dependent on Arcane Magic that they become utterly despondent if you don't fetch it for them. Or that every single mob in Suramar either uses an array of Arcane Spells or has their armour/clothing made of glowing arcane energy! Or how about that the architecture has been designed entirely around synthesizing the Architecture of the Ancient Night Elves (you know, the ruins you see everywhere) and that of the Blood Elves — that it is a clearly designed middle-ground between the two.

Does Thunder Totem not feel Tauren enough to you because it feels like they're a small confederation of tribes? Or the Zandalari not feel Troll enough because they focus too much on the Loa?

[Beloren]

So just cause they got dark skin they supposed to be servants??? Kidding. but OT: I think this may be conditioning since it seems you are coming from a Horde perspective. On that side Dark skinned elves have always been in the trees while big shiny cities have the light skinned elves, but all the lore supports that they are from the same origin and this is that origin cut off from the sun for 10k years.

what's wrong with that? Nothing wrong with having some races serve right.. I mean that's what the night elves did with themselves, and you see the nightborne servants - and it fits, the oppressed servants that revolt against their oppressive nobles - so why not make them serve the blood elves as punishment for their crimes?

You may be right, it may be conditioning, but can you honestly say you don't think I'm right here? That you haven't also thought this. And fits, darkies in trees and caves, while the proper elves in the city. And it may be the lore, but since they retcon so many things, they should retcon that bit.

Have the night elves always been the tree elves, with no arcane bit to it. - The lore definitely has all the night elves arcane until the sundering, they should change that, so the blood elves can have the city

[Zenny]

It does look a bit like Blood Elf does it not, other then the color scheme the following could almost be mistaken for Suramar:



It's Silvermoon though.

It shouldn't be a surprise though, the two groups are related.

[Archibalde]

when you think of night elves you think of ruins, trees and quiet forests left over grown and abandoned with hidden elves.

Okay, so this is clearly a joke then...? What do you think those ruins used to be? Lavish cities just like Suramar. Zin-Aszhari, the former Night Elf capital city, has always been described in the lore as being extremely luxurious. It was nothing like Darnassus, it was a huge city full of tall spires and had a very extravagant palace where Queen Azshara herself resided. What we got in the Well of Eternity dungeon was a tiny fraction of how glorious the city has always been described in the lore for as long as the Warcraft universe has existed.

[Beloren]

Ok, the Nightborne are an even more Magically-Inclined people than the Blood Elves, for one. Two the Night Elven society they left behind when they sequestered themselves 10,000 years ago was a society built on the Arcane; Druids hardly existed for little more than the blink of an eye in terms of their society.

And you think that Suramar doesn't feel suited for them? Look if this kind of information was secreted away in the novels, not really clear to the world, then I would understand your issue but FFS, Blizzard fucking BROWBEATS you with this information in game! The divisions in Night Elven society after the War of the Ancients is only told to you in:
Any zone with a Night Elf Ruin in Vanilla/Cata-revamped Zones, the Mount Hyjal Raid, the Well of Eternity Dungeon, Val'sharah, Azsuna, Suramar, the Dire Maul dungeon complex, Black Rook Hold, Eye of Azshara and anywhere you find a Highborne Mage.
Not to mention the fact that the Faction you fight alongside in Suramar are so dependent on Arcane Magic that they become utterly despondent if you don't fetch it for them. Or that every single mob in Suramar either uses an array of Arcane Spells or has their armour/clothing made of glowing arcane energy! Or how about that the architecture has been designed entirely around synthesizing the Architecture of the Ancient Night Elves (you know, the ruins you see everywhere) and that of the Blood Elves — that it is a clearly designed middle-ground between the two.

Does Thunder Totem not feel Tauren enough to you because it feels like they're a small confederation of tribes? Or the Zandalari not feel Troll enough because they focus too much on the Loa?

okay, good explanation, but they should do something better for the blood elves next - I wish I could just be content with enjoying these elves but I can't, I find it hard to like night elves, and I find nightborne even uglier - I thought the armor was cool, but the models, no and after trying hard, I think I just don't like them.

So, I think I want something better for the blood elves, or possibly have the blood elves take over the city.. the Nightborne have really mis-used, abused and mistreated the whole thing, because of them the Legion has almost conquered Azeroth, therefore we shouldn't spare them.

[Faerillis]

okay, good explanation, but they should do something better for the blood elves next - I wish I could just be content with enjoying these elves but I can't, I find it hard to like night elves, and I find nightborne even uglier - I thought the armor was cool, but the models, no and after trying hard, I think I just don't like them.

So, I think I want something better for the blood elves, or possibly have the blood elves take over the city.. the Nightborne have really mis-used, abused and mistreated the whole thing, because of them the Legion has almost conquered Azeroth, therefore we shouldn't spare them.

Well since the city is powered by the Eye of Aman'thul (the source of the Nightwell's power) and we're taking the Eye of Aman'thul from the city, it's hard to imagine what will become of the city. The Blood Elves taking it over would not be one of the options though, since making it a Horde exclusive city when it is the heart of endgame content is not something they could do.

Don't get me wrong, I want Blood Elf content too! I'd love to see the Post-Nighthold Patch give content where the Horde and Alliance are in conflict as they try to very differently guide the city to recovery — with Night Elf Druids trying to make them re-imagine their society and its source of power and Blood Elf Mages trying to help them discover new fonts for the Arcane. It would be fantastic to see where Lor'themar's story is going and frankly, since the Horde is down to only one Unique Model Leader, it's time for the Regent-Lord to get an upgrade anyways.

Hell, take part of the Nighthold Raid, or just add a giant unexplored courtyard to the Nighthold and put it in as a new Battleground. Have parts of the city become World PvP zones for those who've completed the Nighthold Raid. Most importantly, give me a transmog set that is clearly meant to be a Blood Elven take on Nightborne Fashion as a reward from those.