First presidential debate - September 26: Trump vs Hillary

[LaserSharkDFB]

To be fair, you are calling Trump supporters fact-adverse when you yourself don't know the difference between fact and opinion. The word "best" is a statement of opinion, regardless of how you try to back pedal away from it. I can say my education was the best anyone has ever gotten, and you can never disprove it. Because proof is a fact thing, not an opinion thing. You can put your words together however you like but, they have actual meanings that matter to people who are trying to speak with you.

That... is just flat-out wrong, and bizarrely so. Education is largely quantifiable. A child could make that statement about his third grade elementary class, and we could prove it wrong by point out the existence of, for example, fourth graders. What you're talking about is your education experience, which is subjective. If Trump were to say 'Americans have a better experience during their education', that would certainly be difficult to prove. The original example, however, had him saying 'the best education system', which is very easy to contrast and compare against the systems of other countries.

[Breccia]

I have no idea what your point is. I think you quoted the wrong person or something.

No, I was suggesting the Hawaiian officials should be upset with themselves for allowing this whole situation to come to pass.

- - - Updated - - -

I just realized something. What if Holt, desperate to avoid anything that could be blamed on him personally, sets up the debate questions where fact checking is not necessary?

"Mr. Trump, without discussing Mrs. Clinton or her campaign in any way, tell me your plans for the federal budget."
"Well as you know, under Obama we--"
"I asked for your plans, Mr. Trump. Please answer the question or forfeit your time to Mrs. Clinton."
"Oh...I plan to cut taxes dramatically and curb government spending."
"Thank you. Mrs. Clinton, same question."
"I'd like to respond --"
"Please answer the question, or forfeit your time to Mr. Trump."
"Uh, okay..."

It might actually be nice to see 90 minutes of purely proposed policy in a civil manner. Enforced civility is still civility, right?

[Deleted]

My fear for tonight is that the orange orangutan will "win" because the bar has been set so low.

You would prefer the corpse that is controled entirely by corporations greed instead?

[Tijuana]

That... is just flat-out wrong, and bizarrely so. Education is largely quantifiable. A child could make that statement about his third grade elementary class, and we could prove it wrong by point out the existence of, for example, fourth graders. What you're talking about is your education experience, which is subjective. If Trump were to say 'Americans have a better experience during their education', that would certainly be difficult to prove. The original example, however, had him saying 'the best education system', which is very easy to contrast and compare against the systems of other countries.

You posted a lot of words there. But none of them change the fact that "best" is term of opinion. Why on earth would you jump and help this foolish notion presented by the other poster? We can argue how to define best till the end of days but when we reach that end, it will still be a term use for stating an opinion, not a fact. If my criteria for "best" is the hottest chicks, your test scores are meaningless. I mean, the English language just is what it is. Words have meanings, and the poster I corrected was using them laughably wrong. And then here you come...

[Buckeyenut88]

You would prefer the corpse that is controled entirely by corporations greed instead?

Yes and it isn't even a close pick between the two.

[cubby]

To be fair, you are calling Trump supporters fact-adverse when you yourself don't know the difference between fact and opinion. The word "best" is a statement of opinion, regardless of how you try to back pedal away from it. I can say my education was the best anyone has ever gotten, and you can never disprove it. Because proof is a fact thing, not an opinion thing. You can put your words together however you like but, they have actual meanings that matter to people who are trying to speak with you.

You are thinking that best is only one thing, when most words have more than one meaning. Best in this case would be #1 and it's pretty easy to check with the people who rate educational systems internationally which country offers the best education.

You're jumping on one example and thinking you're winning the interwebs because facts can't be checked - which was the original point. Facts can be checked - and nothing you think will change that reality.

Trumpers are typically critical of fact checking because Trump can't hold up to a reality based discussion.

[Deleted]

Yes and it isn't even a close pick between the two.

Funny, you pick the legitimate criminal and antagonist just because Trump says a few mean truths.

[cubby]

You posted a lot of words there. But none of them change the fact that "best" is term of opinion. Why on earth would you jump and help this foolish notion presented by the other poster? We can argue how to define best till the end of days but when we reach that end, it will still be a term use for stating an opinion, not a fact. If my criteria for "best" is the hottest chicks, your test scores are meaningless. I mean, the English language just is what it is. Words have meanings, and the poster I corrected was using them laughably wrong. And then here you come...

When more than one person corrects your mistake - perhaps you should start considering the idea that you made a mistake . . . . MAGA!

[Tijuana]

You are thinking that best is only one thing, when most words have more than one meaning. Best in this case would be #1 and it's pretty easy to check with the people who rate educational systems internationally which country offers the best education.

You're jumping on one example and thinking you're winning the interwebs because facts can't be checked - which was the original point. Facts can be checked - and nothing you think will change that reality.

Trumpers are typically critical of fact checking because Trump can't hold up to a reality based discussion.

You can disagree with Trumps opinion of what is best all you like, and I would too. That is perfectly reasonable. But when you say a person's opinion needs to be fact checked, like the original poster did, that is just fucking moronic, sorry. I don't really care to debate "what the definition of is, is" so, I will just laugh at you both, and go on my merry way. But, this has been pretty god damn funny that two humans that speak English, literally do not understand that having a different opinion is not "lying that needs to be fact checked." GG...

[cubby]

You can disagree with Trumps opinion of what is best all you like, and I would too. That is perfectly reasonable. But when you say a person's opinion needs to be fact checked, like the original poster did, that is just fucking moronic, sorry. I don't really care to debate "what the definition of is, is" so, I will just laugh at you both, and go on my merry way. But, this has been pretty god damn funny that two humans that speak English, literally do not understand that having a different opinion is not "lying that needs to be fact checked." GG...

So basically there are no facts that can be verified in your world? None at all? Because if there are facts in your world, those are the ones I'm suggesting could be checked.

[TheFirstOnes]

Welp everyone. In 2 hours, the cancer debate will rise. Welp, better grab my popcorn, my legion button, CAUSE I AM FUCKING READY BBY!

[Deleted]

Trumpers are typically critical of fact checking because Trump can't hold up to a reality based discussion.

Well, when Hillary supports basically deny facts as much as Trump, I guess we can just call them both equally deplorable.

But what facts are Trump supporters actually denying exactly? Because as a UK person following the election, your candidates are as follows

Trump: a Billionaire who makes his money in America, and has an agenda to keep his American assets the strongest.

Hillary: a Globalist in the pocket of every Multi-national corp who has been a lying cheating scumbag trying to grab for power at every chance.

I mean I'm going to be honest, what do people think Trump will do that will make things so bad? Give Muslims and Mexicans a scare?

It's better than having a security risk globalist who will bring the world to a dystopia.

[mvaliz]

You would prefer the corpse that is controled entirely by corporations greed instead?

...that is still the orange orangutan, with the corporations he's beholden to are his own, his shareholdrrs, and seemingly his financial support from Russia...

[cubby]

...that is still the orang orangutang, with the corporations he's beholden to are his own, his shareholdrrs, and seemingly his financial support from Russia...

Don't even bother - people like that have already made up their mind and neither facts nor reality will change it.

[Deleted]

...that is still the orang orangutang, with the corporations he's beholden to are his own, his shareholdrrs, and seemingly his financial support from Russia...

So the basic difference is one has a history of abusing the Law and being a security risk. The other is just a tax dodger.

[Deleted]

Don't even bother - people like that have already made up their mind and neither facts nor reality will change it.

See, Now who is denying facts. If you provide me with an argument over why Hillary's MASSIVE faults should be overlooked over Trump's I am all ears.

[cubby]

See, Now who is denying facts. If you provide me with an argument over why Hillary's MASSIVE faults should be overlooked over Trump's I am all ears.

Sure you are. Here are the top 10 things re Donald Trump:

1) Doesn't pay his workers.
2) Tax Returns
3) Ties with Russia
4) Making a profit off his campaign
5) Lack of any coherent policy plans
6) Treatment of women
7) Racist remarks
8) Hired illegal immigrants
9) Will have the military commit war crimes
10) Incites violence at his rallies

Here are the other 181.

Now that you know you're wrong, when you vote the candidate you're looking for starts with an H. Thanks for being intellectually honest!

(and yes, I know you're in the U.K., I'm being facetious)

[TheFirstOnes]

See, Now who is denying facts. If you provide me with an argument over why Hillary's MASSIVE faults should be overlooked over Trump's I am all ears.

Pfft. Pls, all ears aint shit unless you got all eyes to include along with it.

Either way, no matter who wins, america is fucked. Let alone the fucking world.

[mvaliz]

Well, when Hillary supports basically deny facts as much as Trump...

Ummm...that's definetly not true. Like, at all...

But what facts are Trump supporters actually denying exactly?

Well, for starters, the one you just wrote above...

To name a few directly off the top of my head:
The Wall that Mexico is going to build (they're not)
Global Warming being a Chineese conspiracy (it's not)
That Vaccines cause autism (they don't)
That mexico is deliberately sending murderers and rapists over our borders (They're not)
That Obama, the man who ordered the successful hit on Osama-bin-laden, is supporting muslim terrorism and deliberately downplaying their actions (He's not)

Oh, and here's one from you:
Trump: a Billionaire who makes his money in America - (no, he doesn't. His clothing and other products are made in China and Mexico and Russia. Your claims cannot be proven because he's deliberately holding back from showing a decade's worth of taxes)

I mean I'm going to be honest, what do people think Trump will do that will make things so bad? Give Muslims and Mexicans a scare?

It's better than having a security risk globalist who will bring the world to a dystopia.

OK, I'm going to assume you're NOT lying and are from England. If so... I'm MORE than thinking you voted "leave" on Brexit... didn't you? :P

[Breccia]

Funny, you pick the legitimate criminal and antagonist just because Trump says a few mean truths.

It's funny how some people still think this is about being PC, when one candidate continues to say things that demonstrate the complete lack of knowledge of anything the federal government does. He says a few mean things in between the things he say that prove he's unqualified for the role.