Where are the fire nerfs?

[Deleted]

Mages and nerf ???
The game will die if blizz touch the mages they never get nerf

[Woobels]

People see 5 mil DPS from living bomb on Darkheart Thicket Dresaron trash and flip over that shit. Yes, fire mage is one of top DPS specs now, but they are hardly overpowered.

This is pretty much it.

Yeah Fire is really good in raiding too but we're not slamming everyone like Arms was doing to some people before the nerfs, or Shadow on specific fights.

Why exactly do so many people think Fire is some disgustingly overpowered spec? I'm genuinely curious.

[mrgreenthump]

Mages and nerf ???
The game will die if blizz touch the mages they never get nerf

We do get nerfed when we deserve it most of the time, this just isn't one of those times. This "pre tier" isn't going to be balanced anyways with some people getting multiple legendaries while most get none.

[Goldielocks]

I'm confused as to why people are arguing against the nerf to Fire, when Havoc is being nerfed for the exact same reason. Havoc has great aoe and middle of the pack ST, so why is Havoc getting nerfed so heavily?

[Charge me Doctor]

I'm confused as to why people are arguing against the nerf to Fire, when Havoc is being nerfed for the exact same reason. Havoc has great aoe and middle of the pack ST, so why is Havoc getting nerfed so heavily?

Because fire AoE is tied to cooldowns, but Havoc AoE is consistent. Pre nerf Havoc DH used to pull 400k on every single pack while also pulling decent damage on boss fights.

You run out of PF and RoPs and boss pull is in next 40 seconds? Well, your DPS is screwed because you can't throw 9 Pyros in a combustion window. Why don't you have these cooldowns? Because you used them on trash to be able to pull said 400k DPS and move through dungeon faster. Sure you can hold to them on last two packs pre boss but that means that you'll do about 100-200k DPS

I'm speaking purely from m/m+ dungeons experience, i have no clue what happens in raids now

[kheath812]

Pre nerf Havoc DH used to pull 400k on every single pack while also pulling decent damage on boss fights.

more like at least 1 million dps and up into the 2 to 3 mils on every trash pull if theyre good. with no long cooldowns.

[mrgreenthump]

I'm confused as to why people are arguing against the nerf to Fire, when Havoc is being nerfed for the exact same reason. Havoc has great aoe and middle of the pack ST, so why is Havoc getting nerfed so heavily?

Maybe it's because outside of Living Bomb and huge packs, Fire AoE is limited to cleave(which takes to ramp up) and Flame Strike(which isn't really even worth casting)

[NFA]

I'll never, ever understand how low and petty you'd have to be to genuinely complain about another class being "better" than what you're playing. I have no issue whatsoever with being outdps'd by half the melee roster this expansion, all the better in fact as the bosses die quicker.

PvP is tuned separately so that's no excuse, it's literally just "waaah waah he's doing something I'm not!!!" boggles my mind.

[mrgreenthump]

i have no clue what happens in raids now

In raids you pretty can basically AFK on trash while others do the DPS, unless you like to respec to LB while doing trash and back to UM for the boss.

[Holofernes]

i have seen frostmages doing astonishingly well and fire mages that suck big times. Its all about the player, and the chance that the fire mage you group for mythic + is mediocre is way higher than the chance u get a bad frost mage, because only experienced and strong players stay frost.
Right now there are so many bad fire mages that dont play their classes potential out, i think thats why it didnt get a nerf.

In regard to mythic dungeons, i personally expected a arcane nerf (they are crazy bomb dps right now) , and perhaps a slight fire ae nerf.

[mrgreenthump]

I have no issue whatsoever with being outdps'd by half the melee roster this expansion, all the better in fact as the bosses die quicker.

People like to be nr 1 or at least near it. When there's not even a chance for that to happen, due to your spec/class is way weaker, it really ain't fun for those people.

But yeah generally it only fucks up people in serious raiding guilds, as they are forced to specs and sitting out of the raid if their class/spec choice doesn't perform in the instance.

[Deleted]

Flame Strike(which isn't really even worth casting)

which has actually been shown to be wrong based on actual math in the fire legion thread, at 3+ targets its borderline equal with FS ahead but at 4+ FS is a clear winner.

[Doffen]

Haha came to say this...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/

Mage is #1 or #2 ranged dps in every encounter and does even better when you switch to 95th percentile.

And fire is on 6th overall if you change to 99%.

And the point was?

Edit: Shadow is above from 90% and up. Blizzard just reverted the nerfs and brought more buffs. So they get buffed, while better than fire. No one over there complaining.

Sooo fire needs a buff?

[Goldielocks]

Because fire AoE is tied to cooldowns, but Havoc AoE is consistent. Pre nerf Havoc DH used to pull 400k on every single pack while also pulling decent damage on boss fights.

You run out of PF and RoPs and boss pull is in next 40 seconds? Well, your DPS is screwed because you can't throw 9 Pyros in a combustion window. Why don't you have these cooldowns? Because you used them on trash to be able to pull said 400k DPS and move through dungeon faster. Sure you can hold to them on last two packs pre boss but that means that you'll do about 100-200k DPS

I'm speaking purely from m/m+ dungeons experience, i have no clue what happens in raids now

It makes sense when talking about CD differences, but most people (like me) don't even bother popping CDs on trash. I never cared about trash DPS. I guess though, when you're trying to beat a timer for loot in M+, then that changes things.

If anything, Havoc should be nerfed to be in a situation that Fire is in now (great aoe tied to a CD), but those notes show that isn't what Blizz is doing. They're destroying the current way Havoc is played and is forcing them to change to another rotation. They're recognizing the outcry though.

[mrgreenthump]

which has actually been shown to be wrong based on actual math in the fire legion thread, at 3+ targets its borderline equal with FS ahead but at 4+ FS is a clear winner.

That is, if you've spec'd Flame Patch ain't it. Otherwise it's something like 8+.

And considering it's against Living Bomb.. yeah not many situations I would spec Flame Patch over LB.

[Deleted]

That is, if you've spec'd Flame Patch ain't it. Otherwise it's something like 8+.

And considering it's against Living Bomb.. yeah not many situations I would spec Flame Patch over LB.

no, its without flame patch.

[Xkiller9000]

I am absolutely surprised that fire did not get a nerf.

Their performance is over the top in single target and AoE, as well as in movement heavy fights. Even their burst potential is better than most classes.
If you compare this to what frost or arcane can bring, even after the buffs, I wonder if blizzard wants all mages to be fire?

So far, the "hotfix" balance patch mostly hit DHs and Monks AoE, and shadow and MS warri single target, but they really need to bring down MM hunter, fire mage and maybe some rogue speccs.

If you look at the raid environment (7/7 hc so far), it is plain stupid that elemental shaman and arcane/frost mage as well as most warlock speccs get to eat shit, trying to do dps when every encounter has little ramp-up time, burst windows and tons of movement, and then get shit on in dps by fire mages and hunters, where the latter only need to find 2 buttons.
Fire mages are also way to easy, but not as bad as hunters.

You wanna talk about mythic+ dungeons? Then delete frost immediatly. And if you are arcane, have fun relying on your tank to do crazy pull strats so you get some decent aoe off, because single target you are shit. And yeah, have fun sitting down drinking after every trash pack.
Oh yeah and fire, just hit that one button living bomb, will do enough.

Srsly either nerf the shit out of fire or give frost/arcane some better buffs.
The fairer option would be to nerf fire mages and hunters, so that all range speccs would be equally good/bad.

/rage over

Ok, as a high level mage, let me explain where we're at

Yes, fire is strong, no doubts there, but our sustained AoE, as in more than several seconds, isnt super special, its good, but not like Havoc DH or DKs. Yes our ST is good, but relies on rng to some extent, meanwhile Arms Warriors are keeping up. It's usually me and him at the top of the meters.

In fact, the 2 other fire mages on our team are in the upper-middle level on our dps charts, what theyre doing differently idk, but still.

As for our burst, yea, fire mages have always had good burst, thats what we do.

Lol, dont start with the Fire Mage is too easy, there are plenty of specs easier than fire mage. Yea, fire mage may be easy to learn, if you can pull 315k dps on H Xavius at 848 ilvl consistantly, then you can tell us its easy....you need to spend time in perfecting it, and plenty of it.

idk "the latter only need to find 2 buttons" means, but if u mean fire mages, thats just straight up wrong.


As for Arcane, have you not heard of the NT Spam build? When it can be executed, it pulls ahead of fire quite a bit, only certain fights allow it though, like Ursoc, and with the arcane buffs, were going to see a lot more arcane mages.

Frost is pvp, end of story, it was good in HFC but now its done



go cry somewhere else pls, there are other specs that are worse than us

(inc hating at me)

[Deleted]

actually they capped quickening at 50 stacks in the latest set of hotfixes effectively eliminating the OP part of the NT gameplay, its prolly still good but not as good as b4.

[Vynestra]

Frost is tied with fire in sims, and arcane if it can stand still is better, add movement arcane is probably right around if not slightly below the two...

This is as balanced as we'll ever get.

Enjoy it.

[Zenny]

I am absolutely surprised that fire did not get a nerf.

Their performance is over the top in single target and AoE, as well as in movement heavy fights. Even their burst potential is better than most classes.
If you compare this to what frost or arcane can bring, even after the buffs, I wonder if blizzard wants all mages to be fire?

So far, the "hotfix" balance patch mostly hit DHs and Monks AoE, and shadow and MS warri single target, but they really need to bring down MM hunter, fire mage and maybe some rogue speccs.

If you look at the raid environment (7/7 hc so far), it is plain stupid that elemental shaman and arcane/frost mage as well as most warlock speccs get to eat shit, trying to do dps when every encounter has little ramp-up time, burst windows and tons of movement, and then get shit on in dps by fire mages and hunters, where the latter only need to find 2 buttons.
Fire mages are also way to easy, but not as bad as hunters.

You wanna talk about mythic+ dungeons? Then delete frost immediatly. And if you are arcane, have fun relying on your tank to do crazy pull strats so you get some decent aoe off, because single target you are shit. And yeah, have fun sitting down drinking after every trash pack.
Oh yeah and fire, just hit that one button living bomb, will do enough.

Srsly either nerf the shit out of fire or give frost/arcane some better buffs.
The fairer option would be to nerf fire mages and hunters, so that all range speccs would be equally good/bad.

/rage over

Wait, Fire Mage was not even in the top 4 and deserved a nerf? Why? Because other specs were under performing? Didn't those other specs just get a patch to boost their damage?