First presidential debate - September 26: Trump vs Hillary

[Kellhound]

Particularly since, if he's actually making the kinds of incomes he claims to, this pretty much is an admission that he's engaging in deliberate and intentional tax evasion. Which, let's recall, is a crime.

Makes his refusal to release his tax returns that much more damning.

So long as it is done by the book, it isnt illegal, just despicable.

[Breccia]

Stupidity?

No, that can't be right. There has to be something else. If the only thing was "no taxes" and that cat's out of the bag, he has nothing to gain by hiding them. Especially since Clinton could blatantly make shit up, knowing she can't be contradicted.

[TheRabidDeer]

Particularly since, if he's actually making the kinds of incomes he claims to, this pretty much is an admission that he's engaging in deliberate and intentional tax evasion. Which, let's recall, is a crime.

Makes his refusal to release his tax returns that much more damning.

Paying no tax doesn't necessarily mean tax evasion. It means abuse of loopholes in the system and smart management of money.

[Endus]

Like I said we can debate this all day. You don't just invest your funds in your current market, if you demand truly is capped, then you just invest it elsewhere and grow those markets.

Again, what markets? Unless the consumer class is granted more money to spend, demand has not increased in any market. You can not stimulate demand through increasing production, which is what you're claiming. This is Economics 101 level stuff.

If what you're arguing were true, then I could start spending my time tying sticks into cross shapes and trying to sell them. And they'd sell, no matter how shitty they are, because I've invested in production. That, in your mind, automatically creates demand for whatever product I made. That's obviously not how anything works.

Your entire theory is pretty debunked when a larger economy like France has tried the redistribution approach and their economic growth has been abysmal.

And plenty of other countries have tried similar issues, and had pretty broad success. You're cherry picking, and it's pretty blatant. There's a reason many developed nations have surpassed the USA in terms of quality of live indices.

[LilSaihah]

Time, CNBC, and Drudge polls all show trump won the debate and it wasnt even close.

Drudge seems a bit of a silly thing to cite, we know it's a heavily right-leaning audience.

[Endus]

So long as it is done by the book, it isnt illegal, just despicable.

Paying no tax doesn't necessarily mean tax evasion. It means abuse of loopholes in the system and smart management of money.

Those loopholes involve reducing your net taxable income somehow. You can't claim to have made $600 million in net income, and then brag about paying no taxes, not without having engaged in tax evasion. And if he made $600 million in gross income, then he's straight-up misleading people as to his actual wealth.

[alexw]

Like I said we can debate this all day. You don't just invest your funds in your current market, if you demand truly is capped, then you just invest it elsewhere and grow those markets. Your entire theory is pretty debunked when a larger economy like France has tried the redistribution approach and their economic growth has been abysmal.

Yeah reality denial. As expected.

Here's a question for you. Demand is 10 units of output. Production is 10 units of output. Trump cuts the taxes of the top 1% by 10%. How many new jobs are created?

As for France it proves that Endus is right not wrong (not surprising that you are don't know this given your total lack of understanding of economics). France is being forced to put in place demand shrinking policies by Germany. That shrinkage of demand has caused unemployment to rise.

[NoiseTank13]

Things you don't do at a debate,
claim your opponent who is 68 spent her adult life fighting a group who wasn't around more than a few years.
Say that she doesn't look like a president.
Get in a 10 minute fight with the moderator
Blame 400 lb bed ridden hackers
Claim that not paying taxes makes you smart when the majority of voters pay taxes.
Refuse to prepare and then try to push a message that not preparing in advance is good.

And yet people think these are positive traits.

[DeadmanWalking]

Particularly since, if he's actually making the kinds of incomes he claims to, this pretty much is an admission that he's engaging in deliberate and intentional tax evasion. Which, let's recall, is a crime.

Makes his refusal to release his tax returns that much more damning.

Once you hit a certain income level your job becomes monitoring your money and making sure the government gets as little as possible. To that end the rich have always bought politicians to make legal tax loopholes for them, which anyone else can't afford to do.
Since he is being audited repeatedly I would suggest that since he isn't in jail for tax evasion that what he does isn't illegal if the IRS doesn't catch him doing anything illegal. It is in the IRS to catch him. Let's not assume illegality merely because Trump is unfit to be president.

[Celista]

Wtf is up with the Trump and Hannity circle jerk tonight? Hannity is mentioned several dozen times during the debates, and then he gets his own special interview session?

He totally fucked up when he asked where are you getting this from.

Yes. It was an off the cuff remark and he really needs to work on reining those in.

Trump did OK for "the bar is so damn low for Trump already" values of OK.

I mean he tried to deflect accusations of racism by saying, "I once opened a club in an expensive part of Florida where we allowed Blacks and Latinos in!!!!" For goodness' sake.

Well I mean, Trump is pretty racist, that was probably the best he could legitimately come up with...

I think he did OK in general. I could see how he could have won the debates with a few more TPP-like jabs, if Clinton was having an off night. He also made some good points about how her experience matters little if people are generally dissatisfied with what her experience has brought about (not that I necessarily agree with this, but I know some voters feel this way). He should have phrased it differently as "not the right kind" of experience was worded rather poorly; she has quite a lot of political experience. Perhaps he was indirectly trying to refer to her lack of business experience, but being a politician is not like running a business.

He also sounded legitimately sincere at one point during the debate and I think he actually did mean it when he said he was trying to distance himself from his past. Although I view his sincerity as essentially being on par with spotting a unicorn in the woods.

[MasterHamster]

All three are currently being spammed by /pol/.

Not to mention /r/The_Donald
Vote manipulation is only okay if Trumpets do it

Though it's obvious reading the newer posts that even they had their HIGH ENERGY sapped quite a lot.

[Kellhound]

Those loopholes involve reducing your net taxable income somehow. You can't claim to have made $600 million in net income, and then brag about paying no taxes, not without having engaged in tax evasion. And if he made $600 million in gross income, then he's straight-up misleading people as to his actual wealth.

It all depends on what exactly he has done to reduce his tax liability.

[Stonecloak]

Yeah reality denial. As expected.

Here's a question for you. Demand is 10 units of output. Production is 10 units of output. Trump cuts the taxes of the top 1% by 10%. How many new jobs are created?

Are you suggesting supply and demand are 1 to 1 in America?

[Endus]

Yeah reality denial. As expected.

Here's a question for you. Demand is 10 units of output. Production is 10 units of output. Trump cuts the taxes of the top 1% by 10%. How many new jobs are created?

Hell, just make it real simple.

Sally is selling brownies at a school fair. She knows she can sell about 50 brownies per fair. She's made more than that, in the past, but never sold any more than 50.

Sally's parents give her an extra $30,000 to spend on materials to make thousands of brownies. Does this mean she'll be able to sell thousands? No, she'll sell 50. She MIGHT sell more, if she drops her prices accordingly, but now she's making way less per brownie, to boot, and potentially losing money on the transaction. And she's still going to hit a cap at some point.

[Kellhound]

Yeah reality denial. As expected.

Here's a question for you. Demand is 10 units of output. Production is 10 units of output. Trump cuts the taxes of the top 1% by 10%. How many new jobs are created?

As for France it proves that Endus is right not wrong (not surprising that you are don't know this given your total lack of understanding of economics). France is being forced to put in place demand shrinking policies by Germany. That shrinkage of demand is causing unemployment to rise.

Depends if those 10 units of production are being bought by the 1% and if more funds would increase the demand from those buyers.

[Stonecloak]

And yet people think these are positive traits.

Starting to think a decent size of Trump supporters don't trust Hilary, and just want to blow this thing up. Can't say I completely blame them.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Paying no tax doesn't necessarily mean tax evasion. It means abuse of loopholes in the system and smart management of money.

The head of state is supposed to be a role model for society though, and somebody that avoids paying tax that they probably should isn't necessarily a person that should be running a country.

[DeadmanWalking]

Yeah reality denial. As expected.

Here's a question for you. Demand is 10 units of output. Production is 10 units of output. Trump cuts the taxes of the top 1% by 10%. How many new jobs are created?

Well the ideal is that the rich guy buys a boat and a jacuzzi and the boat maker and pool guy make more money and they buy food so the grocery makes more money ect.
The problem is that the top % of income don't spend their money here anymore, they just take the extra and spend it in the Caribbean or hide it in offshore accounts.
The middle class however is firmly entrenched in living in the states and purchasing in the states which is why bolstering the middle class is so important. The problem is that middle class jobs are dying and all that is left is road crews and restaurant work for anyone without higher education.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah reality denial. As expected.

Here's a question for you. Demand is 10 units of output. Production is 10 units of output. Trump cuts the taxes of the top 1% by 10%. How many new jobs are created?

Well the ideal is that the rich guy buys a boat and a jacuzzi and the boat maker and pool guy make more money and they buy food so the grocery makes more money ect.
The problem is that the top % of income don't spend their money here anymore, they just take the extra and spend it in the Caribbean or hide it in offshore accounts.
The middle class however is firmly entrenched in living in the states and purchasing in the states which is why bolstering the middle class is so important. The problem is that middle class jobs are dying and all that is left is road crews and restaurant work for anyone without higher education.

[TheRabidDeer]

Those loopholes involve reducing your net taxable income somehow. You can't claim to have made $600 million in net income, and then brag about paying no taxes, not without having engaged in tax evasion. And if he made $600 million in gross income, then he's straight-up misleading people as to his actual wealth.

He made $600 million in assets. He invests in property. He doesn't have much cash income that you or I consider income from paychecks which we can then go spend on good and services. His net worth is not fluid and spendable money.

[LilSaihah]

Starting to think a decent size of Trump supporters don't trust Hilary, and just want to blow this thing up. Can't say I completely blame them.

I'm frankly amazed that anyone could trust Hillary. My impression was that the Hillary crew had the mindset of "well, she's a piece of shit, but she's less of a piece of shit than DJT"- at least, that's the impression I get from here.