Why would you bring a DK besides grip?

[Deleted]

After Wednesday most classes will beat us in almost anything.

Plenty of classes have great AOE, kiting, in-combat CC (very needed for mythic+ ) and mobility.

Death knights are slow, lack good CC options, low-medium ranged damage, needs to set up comboes and our only strength is spread AOE or D&D cleave, which does not really make up for the other points.

Even with the nerfs to DH, i would rather bring a hunter, warrior, shaman or rogue. Especially the first three.

Maybe the problem is not entirely a DK problem, but rather mobile AOE stun classes with great AOE being much more desired in Mythic+ while also being great at raiding.

[Kronik85]

What a completely original thread! Never seen this discussion before, wonder how it will turn out.

[Shelly]

Well grip is incredibly useful, but they also have nice damage that'll be getting better tomorrow with the tuning patch bringing frost up.

Also there's icebound fortitude and AMS for personal survivability. Control undead which is never used but could be a game changer in Blackrook Hold. An interrupt which is more than most ranged classes have - as if they ever used it.

Oh and wraithwalk is pretty good mobility.

Stop selling yourself short and make friends, you'll be fine.

[Deleted]

After Wednesday most classes will beat us in almost anything.

Plenty of classes have great AOE, kiting, in-combat CC (very needed for mythic+ ) and mobility.

Dude, I think you lack exp. instead of writing bullshits go and train your DK skills... I am playing unholy and I am desired for each mythic+ (we had time to go to 7 this week). I have great AOE DPS for trash, Great ST DPS for bosses, very nice kite with chain of ice, 2 times Death Grip is OP nowadays... We lack in combat CC, but really with that CD on mass stun of DHs and other classes I dont know how you can skip an adventure if you are using your DK the right way, huge DPS ...

[zaino]

unholy is a monster right now what are you smoking

[Baddok21]

If they actually get the Balancing right as in Frost is competitive than the Dks Utility will be

#1 low CD AoE Stun (bite the bullet - take Ice cap for M+7+)
#2 constant AoE snaring
#3 Burst cleave / sustained cleave (again if the DPS is actually tuned were the spec actually HAS a DPS strength)
#4 Battle res ( can have 5, but likely will have 2 max in your average grp especially after lock buffs)
#5 Mirror ball (self dispelling some of those Dots is pretty strong)
#6 other than Unholy, Frost is the 2nd-3rd best melee spec when dealing with Skittish (threat drop)
#7 CONTROL UNDEAD (BRH stun spamming with lancer,yet to test whether or not we can give a mob bolster stacks and then MC for OP single target deeps)

all based on the general principle though that Frost will have competitive dmg and possible a AoE/Cleave dmg niche

[psyquest]

Honestly if you are talking about raids, considering how DKs, especially unholy, are now, if you ask the question it means there is only one answer:

you need to check how you play, you are most definitely doing something wrong and need to check your rotation and gameplay.

[Deleted]

Dude, I think you lack exp. instead of writing bullshits go and train your DK skills... I am playing unholy and I am desired for each mythic+ (we had time to go to 7 this week). I have great AOE DPS for trash, Great ST DPS for bosses, very nice kite with chain of ice, 2 times Death Grip is OP nowadays... We lack in combat CC, but really with that CD on mass stun of DHs and other classes I dont know how you can skip an adventure if you are using your DK the right way, huge DPS ...

You are assuming way too much without any evidence. I am 858-861 and i do my part in every mythic+ and our raids. I am simply saying many other classes can do better. I cannot really see what we are paying all our lacking mobility for.

Blizzard said they stripped it so that when we got close we would be death machines, however are are merely even with most other classes in other aspects, making us simply immobile.

Mobilty is both DPS and raid mechanic effectiveness. Soaking Xavius pools, getting in and out with rot stacks, Elerethe poison/tornadoes and her wind ability, getting in and out of Il'gynoth and swapping from one side to the other, getting faster around in mythic+ to beat timers and the dungeon mechanics

All this and much more require mobility, and if not, some sort of huge thing to make it up for. We do have our rune pool system, but i dont think that is enough when our sustained DPS can be matched by others with more mobility.

And this does not even explain why the same before mentioned classes also have the upper hand CC-wise. Please argue why what i am saying is wrong, instead of trying to senselessly argue about my skill-level without any proof.

[Deleted]

Because we all know bolvar is gonna open the zombie floodgates and I want to be on good standing when that happens.

Also what badok said sans the "if frost is good"

Oh and wraithwalk is pretty good mobility.

No. It's shit. Everyone says it's shit. It works like shit. It's basically worse than the worgen RACIAL unless glyphed because you can't act while using.

[Gr1mdark]

Because we all know bolvar is gonna open the zombie floodgates and I want to be on good standing when that happens.

Also what badok said sans the "if frost is good"



No. It's shit. Everyone says it's shit. It works like shit. It's basically worse than the worgen RACIAL unless glyphed because you can't act while using.

Get the glyph already and please stop with this...

[farza]

Dude, I think you lack exp. instead of writing bullshits go and train your DK skills... I am playing unholy and I am desired for each mythic+ (we had time to go to 7 this week). I have great AOE DPS for trash, Great ST DPS for bosses, very nice kite with chain of ice, 2 times Death Grip is OP nowadays... We lack in combat CC, but really with that CD on mass stun of DHs and other classes I dont know how you can skip an adventure if you are using your DK the right way, huge DPS ...

Lol our ST damage are the lowest (7 of 8 melee classes right now). If you don't believe - warcraftlogs.com
If you're great on ST fight - then ur guildmates are lacking exp

- - - Updated - - -

Get the glyph already and please stop with this...

What shit? It's shit. U can't attack during this shitty skill.

[scorpious1109]

Ability that requires glyph to function properly=shitty ability.

[Deleted]

Get the glyph already and please stop with this...

Lemme explain it to you, because you're clearly talking out of your asshole:
It's an ability that *REQUIRES* a COSMETIC to work properly. That's fucked up from the get go.
It's still shit since it's a channel which leaves you unable to act.
It's better than worgen's racial when glyphed because it has more speed and less CD however said racial lets you attack. It's the worst mobility spell in the game, and a lot of times it's worse tho use it than not.

Did I mention it's your only mobility ability other than the also unreliable grip in pve?

I'm not asking for it to be a sprint, DK is not rogue. I'm asking for at the very least to let us fucking JUMP without having to buy a cosmetic glyph.

It also aggravates the problem that we give up all mobility to be shit-tier in frost, OK in UH and mediocre in Blood. That is on itself a problem.

[farza]

Honestly if you are talking about raids, considering how DKs, especially unholy, are now, if you ask the question it means there is only one answer:

you need to check how you play, you are most definitely doing something wrong and need to check your rotation and gameplay.

Oh. Can u tell me how to play and do more damage then rogue, awar, windwalkermonk, feral. Only rets are lower than us (but they are buffed tomorrow). Why a raidleader should bring DK instead of this classes?
Tell me, i'm really interested.

[0verdose]

Honestly, if you are a good dk you will get invited and re-invited to raids, if you don't have a guild to do them with already. Remember that most of the logs you are looking at for top dps in heroic EN are all top tier raiders. since everybody including me isn't a top tier raider on this forum (aside from a few, no disrespect here) we don't have to worry about getting left behind on the dps charts because it simply won't happen. I still top my meters during my guild runs and pug runs. Right now all pugs are asking for is 200k+ dps and know mechanics of the fights. If you are not doing those things, than you have to re-evaluate how you play your dk. Mythic + is totally fine for unholy and definitely will be for frost as well after the buffs. Just get a group of friends who play specs with aoe stuns and you will still keep up with st and aoe (talking about unholy). If that doesn't work all you gotta do is have a high ilvl and show them your mythic + achieves and most pugs won't even question what spec you're playing.
I do agree that dks are weak in general but that won't stop me from rerolling. I love playing my unholy dk, and won't stop anytime soon.

[farza]

Honestly, if you are a good dk you will get invited and re-invited to raids, if you don't have a guild to do them with already. Remember that most of the logs you are looking at for top dps in heroic EN are all top tier raiders. since everybody including me isn't a top tier raider on this forum (aside from a few, no disrespect here) we don't have to worry about getting left behind on the dps charts because it simply won't happen. I still top my meters during my guild runs and pug runs. Right now all pugs are asking for is 200k+ dps and know mechanics of the fights. If you are not doing those things, than you have to re-evaluate how you play your dk. Mythic + is totally fine for unholy and definitely will be for frost as well after the buffs. Just get a group of friends who play specs with aoe stuns and you will still keep up with st and aoe (talking about unholy). If that doesn't work all you gotta do is have a high ilvl and show them your mythic + achieves and most pugs won't even question what spec you're playing.
I do agree that dks are weak in general but that won't stop me from rerolling. I love playing my unholy dk, and won't stop anytime soon.

This chart is average damage, tbh warcraftlogs com/statistics/10
Why anyone need DK in their group/raid? Only damage, lol.
I'll pick up rogue, monk, DH for damage in mythic+ as melee damagers.
Why do i need to bother with mediocre DK?
I love DK too, but...

[Deleted]

In a competetive scene. Top 20 guilds. Death Knights will be far down the priority list of classes to get, because our dps is so much weaker than every other class. Which is why all these buffs to other classes have made me so pissed, because it most likely resulted in me losing a raid spot. So we're bad. In most guilds it won't matter because their roster isn't big enough to replace you, or the other options they have, are players that are worse than you. But in top guilds players tend to have an equal level of skill and executing tacts.

The grip won't matter, because the grip is only useful when people mess up with tacts. Like killing bloods on Il'gynoth before they're in front of the eye.

[Life-Binder]

why wouldnt you take a good Frost DK (post-buffs) into a 5-man ?

good AoE/cleave thats more or less always there with no real setup needed, AoE stun, grip, possibly instant Sindy burst on a tough pack (assuming its not on CD from being used on a boss before ^^) - all useful things in a 5-man


raids though yeah ...

[psyquest]

Oh. Can u tell me how to play and do more damage then rogue, awar, windwalkermonk, feral. Only rets are lower than us (but they are buffed tomorrow). Why a raidleader should bring DK instead of this classes?
Tell me, i'm really interested.

the DK will not be top dog everywhere. If you believe this, then you you need to wake up, wont happen.

UH DK will shine in specific situations, for instance: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ht&spec=Unholy
check the ranking of the DK compared to other people in his/her raid. yes, they are doing well there.

The you can check ursoc, boss is ST https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
again those DK in their raid are doing top 5 dps.

I am afraid the class is doing well. Not the top dog single target but absolutely one of the best with bosses that have adds.

again, in case my point was not understood. DKs will not be able to be top single target and top aoe class.
If we look at the logs, the DKs has a very good place in raids, top dog in aoe, top 5 in ST.

Seriously what else can one ask for?


note 1:
if you are in top guilds where being best matters, you are expected to play the best class. Those type of players dont complain about a single class, they have 4-5 classes ready. They play the class that does well in all situations.

In any case for this week race, I doubt top 10 guilds will run with no DK.

[Pepehands]

I gotta agree with some of you about we are in a bad spot now.

Its not about we needed a buff, but almost everyone else got one. If the last updated simu are right, just check where we are now.
(http://imgur.com/a/KyO9Z)

Frost all the way down, even after a good buff it still really SHIT! And... very close we have Unholy.

One thing FOR SURE, everytime any other class get nerfed you see lots of players going to cry to blizz, for example, SP and DH, they were going to be nerfed, cried like little babies and blizz went back... we never complain enough, we never go together to say something something to them, it seems that everything is all right. Its like we are really proud of the shitty class we are.

Dont get me wrong... I love frost, but I was forced to learn Unholy (and I LOVE IT), but please dont tell me this BS thing to play whatever you like. I enjoy not be the last on the DPS.

Even if you think the rotation is hard (I dont feel like that) you have to press lot more buttons than many other classes, you are one of the worst class when comes to mobility, what are our utilities? Grip? Come on... grip, really?! Bress? Bress is ok, but lots of other ppl got it too.

Also dont tell WW is a good skill and dont tell me you need a glyph to FIX IT! As far as I remember I will never be able to use the other 2 WW glyphs, because I need to use a crap one to fix my moviment and dont get stuck on plastic bag on the floor...

Lets see what happens at the end of the week when we gonna have a real raid performance chart, because if you just look at simulationcraft chart now, and lots of people do it, there is not a chance you would invite a DK to your group now.

PS: Sorry my broken English, might have lots of mistakes there.