Where are the fire nerfs?

[D3athsting]

Lulz melee do 1M dps aoe by sitting on keyboard

[psyquest]

The OP does not know wow little secret:

the big boss son plays a mage, the class cannot be anything but top, so no nerfs.

(joking)

[Deleted]

I am absolutely surprised that fire did not get a nerf.

Their performance is over the top in single target and AoE, as well as in movement heavy fights. Even their burst potential is better than most classes.
If you compare this to what frost or arcane can bring, even after the buffs, I wonder if blizzard wants all mages to be fire?

So far, the "hotfix" balance patch mostly hit DHs and Monks AoE, and shadow and MS warri single target, but they really need to bring down MM hunter, fire mage and maybe some rogue speccs.

If you look at the raid environment (7/7 hc so far), it is plain stupid that elemental shaman and arcane/frost mage as well as most warlock speccs get to eat shit, trying to do dps when every encounter has little ramp-up time, burst windows and tons of movement, and then get shit on in dps by fire mages and hunters, where the latter only need to find 2 buttons.
Fire mages are also way to easy, but not as bad as hunters.

You wanna talk about mythic+ dungeons? Then delete frost immediatly. And if you are arcane, have fun relying on your tank to do crazy pull strats so you get some decent aoe off, because single target you are shit. And yeah, have fun sitting down drinking after every trash pack.
Oh yeah and fire, just hit that one button living bomb, will do enough.

Srsly either nerf the shit out of fire or give frost/arcane some better buffs.
The fairer option would be to nerf fire mages and hunters, so that all range speccs would be equally good/bad.

/rage over

Fire is ok in camparison to other classes - frost and arcane were underperformig co they buffed them. And pls don't be another mmo-champ feelcrafter.

[Deleted]

Frost is tied with fire in sims, and arcane if it can stand still is better, add movement arcane is probably right around if not slightly below the two...

This is as balanced as we'll ever get.

Enjoy it.

We shall see. So far Blizzard have balanced spec's based not only for over/underpower but also if there are not enough players playing it.

For example parse numbers like these

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10

Fire .... 47,011 ... 97.5%
Arcane ... 1,005 .... 2.1%
Frost ...... 222 .... 0.5%

need to change radically or there will be more balancing passes.

[Deleted]

OP, keep up the dumb logic. *thumbs up*

[mrgreenthump]

need to change radically or there will be more balancing passes.

You can't really punish Fire for not being underpowered, like the other 2 specs were. Now we are left with 1 artifact that has ~25 levels on it and 2 that probably have none. Furthermore our gear is probably all towards Fire. So yeah.. it will take till 7.1 till we can really see Arcane close that gap, even if they buff it more.

[Deleted]

You can't really punish Fire for not being underpowered, like the other 2 specs were. Now we are left with 1 artifact that has ~25 levels on it and 2 that probably have none. Furthermore our gear is probably all towards Fire. So yeah.. it will take till 7.1 till we can really see Arcane close that gap, even if they buff it more.

Arcane BiS is pretty crit heavy as well. I knew balance patched would come, so I banked about 50k ap for arcane.

[scorpious1109]

The only fire damage I want nerfed is from Nomi's kitchen.

[Summer]

We shall see. So far Blizzard have balanced spec's based not only for over/underpower but also if there are not enough players playing it.

For example parse numbers like these

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10

Fire .... 47,011 ... 97.5%
Arcane ... 1,005 .... 2.1%
Frost ...... 222 .... 0.5%

need to change radically or there will be more balancing passes.

Kind of hard to swap though when all my gear is crit and all the AP is in fel melon. Some people can add a fire legendary on top of that as well.

If they buff the other specs until there's equal players for all three fire will need to be by far the most underpowered one to get people to swap at this point and as time goes on it'll be even worse.

[Deleted]

I am absolutely surprised that fire did not get a nerf.

Their performance is over the top in single target and AoE, as well as in movement heavy fights. Even their burst potential is better than most classes.
If you compare this to what frost or arcane can bring, even after the buffs, I wonder if blizzard wants all mages to be fire?

So far, the "hotfix" balance patch mostly hit DHs and Monks AoE, and shadow and MS warri single target, but they really need to bring down MM hunter, fire mage and maybe some rogue speccs.

If you look at the raid environment (7/7 hc so far), it is plain stupid that elemental shaman and arcane/frost mage as well as most warlock speccs get to eat shit, trying to do dps when every encounter has little ramp-up time, burst windows and tons of movement, and then get shit on in dps by fire mages and hunters, where the latter only need to find 2 buttons.
Fire mages are also way to easy, but not as bad as hunters.

You wanna talk about mythic+ dungeons? Then delete frost immediatly. And if you are arcane, have fun relying on your tank to do crazy pull strats so you get some decent aoe off, because single target you are shit. And yeah, have fun sitting down drinking after every trash pack.
Oh yeah and fire, just hit that one button living bomb, will do enough.

Srsly either nerf the shit out of fire or give frost/arcane some better buffs.
The fairer option would be to nerf fire mages and hunters, so that all range speccs would be equally good/bad.

/rage over

Fire's burst is NOT the strongest. Fire's AoE is NOT the strongest. Fire's single target is NOT the strongest. And these nerfs to other classes made Fire just as strong as the classes that used to overperform. Currently Fire, Feral, Arms, Marksmanship, Havoc are all very well balanced.

I wish noobs like you would stop crying so Blizzard would stop ruining pure DPS classes... You clearly have 0 understanding of the game, the classes and the balance and you're probably an LFR hero that hears bigger noobs than yourself cry about balance, much like the DH noobs that said their class would be unplayable and now Blizzard actually reverted some of the deserved nerfs...

EDIT: And my point about you not understanding anything about this game is further confirmed by you saying that Fire is way too easy. I 100% sure that if you played my Mage you'd do 10% of the damage I do. Dealing with movement as a Fire Mage is extremely hard as not being able to cast 100% of the time is severely punishing, which is why we have Ice Floes and Shimmer. Using those 2 talents correctly is not easy but scrubs like you seem to think it is when they see good players do it well.

- - - Updated - - -

Kind of hard to swap though when all my gear is crit and all the AP is in fel melon. Some people can add a fire legendary on top of that as well.

If they buff the other specs until there's equal players for all three fire will need to be by far the most underpowered one to get people to swap at this point and as time goes on it'll be even worse.

They are never going to make Fire the worst of the 3 specs because that basically guts 97% of Mage players. We've invested over 25 points worth of Artifact Power, spent hundreds of thousands of gold on gear, enchants and gems, geared up with high crit items. That's simply not going to happen. Especially now that they've nerfed Quickening, leaving Arcane without a viable tier 7 talent.

[Deleted]

You can't really punish Fire for not being underpowered, like the other 2 specs were.

I'm not suggesting anything. I just commented Vynestra's "This is as balanced as we'll ever get."

Because I don't believe that these new buffs to Arcane and Frost will make noticeable difference. But maybe we have entered the age of the artifact and balancing works differently now. One spec will be the best for the entire expansion. It's up to Blizzard to decide.

[Deleted]

Kind of hard to swap though when all my gear is crit and all the AP is in fel melon. Some people can add a fire legendary on top of that as well.

If they buff the other specs until there's equal players for all three fire will need to be by far the most underpowered one to get people to swap at this point and as time goes on it'll be even worse.

No, Arcane just needs to be 20% ahead everyone else on a patchwerk fight in order to be competetive in real encounters, which all are far from patchwerks. If you did it right, then Mastery should be your 2nd highest stat already.

[ChickenChaser]

I am absolutely surprised that fire did not get a nerf.

Their performance is over the top in single target and AoE, as well as in movement heavy fights. Even their burst potential is better than most classes.
If you compare this to what frost or arcane can bring, even after the buffs, I wonder if blizzard wants all mages to be fire?

So far, the "hotfix" balance patch mostly hit DHs and Monks AoE, and shadow and MS warri single target, but they really need to bring down MM hunter, fire mage and maybe some rogue speccs.

If you look at the raid environment (7/7 hc so far), it is plain stupid that elemental shaman and arcane/frost mage as well as most warlock speccs get to eat shit, trying to do dps when every encounter has little ramp-up time, burst windows and tons of movement, and then get shit on in dps by fire mages and hunters, where the latter only need to find 2 buttons.
Fire mages are also way to easy, but not as bad as hunters.

You wanna talk about mythic+ dungeons? Then delete frost immediatly. And if you are arcane, have fun relying on your tank to do crazy pull strats so you get some decent aoe off, because single target you are shit. And yeah, have fun sitting down drinking after every trash pack.
Oh yeah and fire, just hit that one button living bomb, will do enough.

Srsly either nerf the shit out of fire or give frost/arcane some better buffs.
The fairer option would be to nerf fire mages and hunters, so that all range speccs would be equally good/bad.

/rage over

Because fire scales horribly after the critical mass changes. It made them a good spec at low levels but scale alot worse... Mythics are opening this week once people have 870-875 ilvl you will start seeing mages slowly dropping to middle of the pack.


Also hunters are not really amazing single target lol they are getting dragged up by xavius pad logs and AOE fights.... I can keep up with hunters on my boomkin (We are a top 20 US guild) and I'm the one getting buffed next week if that tells you what hunters are looking like.

[Deleted]

Also hunters are not really amazing single target lol they are getting dragged up by xavius pad logs and AOE fights.... I can keep up with hunters on my boomkin (We are a top 20 US guild) and I'm the one getting buffed next week if that tells you what hunters are looking like.

That's a blatant lie, MM hunters are obscenely overpowered right now. Same with Shadow Priests, yet they get buffed even more.

[Charge me Doctor]

It makes sense when talking about CD differences, but most people (like me) don't even bother popping CDs on trash. I never cared about trash DPS. I guess though, when you're trying to beat a timer for loot in M+, then that changes things.

I don't get the "i don't use CDs on trash" mentality. Why would you hold them back? You can use 3m CDs at least once inbetween boss fights in dungeons, and it makes the run significantly smoother and faster.
Recently it was my first time in legion to kick someone from m dungeon group, this SP refused to use his void form on trash and spammed mind seer or whatever their AoE ability is called.

- - - Updated - - -

We shall see. So far Blizzard have balanced spec's based not only for over/underpower but also if there are not enough players playing it.

For example parse numbers like these

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10

Fire .... 47,011 ... 97.5%
Arcane ... 1,005 .... 2.1%
Frost ...... 222 .... 0.5%

need to change radically or there will be more balancing passes.

not everyone post their logs to wol. their statistic is very limited

[ChickenChaser]

That's a blatant lie, MM hunters are obscenely overpowered right now. Same with Shadow Priests, yet they get buffed even more.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...841&dataset=90

7th on Ursoc 90%+ logs? is overpowered? They are the best of the non OP classes right now in single target 6th-15th are all within 15k.

Hunters are good on AOE. IE Xavius Padding in guilds that are burning the boss and ignoring adds in p3.. And their AOE is getting brought down next week as I said.

Also on that you can see fire mages at 9th.. And this is only 90%+ logs with 855 ilvl players. As we get into 880 gear Fire scales significantly worse than some other classes wouldn't be shocked to see fire outside the top 10 once we get 870+ sims.

[Charge me Doctor]

That's a blatant lie, MM hunters are obscenely overpowered right now. Same with Shadow Priests, yet they get buffed even more.

That's the case of StM being cheesy as fuck, without it SPs damage is quite shit. Also they have the most boring level 100 talent choice. It's like, StM or some passive shit.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...841&dataset=90

7th on Ursoc 90%+ logs? is overpowered? They are the best of the non OP classes right now in single target 6th-15th are all within 15k.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/#dataset=90
You form an opinion on balance judging on one fight?

[ChickenChaser]

That's the case of StM being cheesy as fuck, without it SPs damage is quite shit. Also they have the most boring level 100 talent choice. It's like, StM or some passive shit.

- - - Updated - - -



https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/#dataset=90
You form an opinion on balance judging on one fight?

And you form an opinion using all bosses which include 2 bosses than you can pad the fuck out of.. I was showing you their single target that is supposedly OP on the 1 True single target fight... Your literly saying MM is OP single target then linking me data including fights that have 10 targets.... Like are you joking? Have you never looked at logs before?


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1873
The fight where damage means 0.
Oh look MM hunters are padding on the adds with their retarded aoe that is getting nerfed causing their overall to get pushed up..


TLDR MM is middle of the pack single target and anyone who has any clue how to actually look at logs will agree... So are fire mages. Both classes are OP at padding and also at doing Good AOE damage on demand. IE phase 3 Xavius.

[Charge me Doctor]

And you form an opinion using all bosses which include 2 bosses than you can pad the fuck out of.. I was showing you their single target that is supposedly OP on the 1 True single target fight... Your literly saying MM is OP single target then linking me data including fights that have 10 targets.... Like are you joking? Have you never looked at logs before?


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1873
The fight where damage means 0.
Oh look MM hunters are padding on the adds with their retarded aoe that is getting nerfed causing their overall to get pushed up..


TLDR MM is middle of the pack single target and anyone who has any clue how to actually look at logs will agree... So are fire mages. Both classes are OP at padding and also at doing Good AOE damage on demand. IE phase 3 Xavius.

I am saying that forming an opinion on class being OP or not using only "90% percentile ST almost-patchwerk-style-fight" is dumb. Don't put words in my mouth like "your literly saying MM is OP single target".

If you love specs being pigeonholed into "single target" and "AoE", aka "look at our ST, we are bad at it", while also saying that "we are OP on 10+ targets, but it's irrelevant" (sure it is, healers are definitely would love to have these 10+ mobs uptime higher) - well, i guess you are not grasping that you invest a lot of time and resource into a single spec. Raid leaders won't look at "oh, this spec does well at single target, i guess i'll take it", they'll look at overall performance, so you won't need to bench this player after 1st boss, because you don't need single target damage anymore, you need burst AoE now.

[ChickenChaser]

I am saying that forming an opinion on class being OP or not using only "90% percentile ST almost-patchwerk-style-fight" is dumb. Don't put words in my mouth like "your literly saying MM is OP single target".

If you love specs being pigeonholed into "single target" and "AoE", aka "look at our ST, we are bad at it", while also saying that "we are OP on 10+ targets, but it's irrelevant" (sure it is, healers are definitely would love to have these 10+ mobs uptime higher) - well, i guess you are not grasping that you invest a lot of time and resource into a single spec. Raid leaders won't look at "oh, this spec does well at single target, i guess i'll take it", they'll look at overall performance, so you won't need to bench this player after 1st boss, because you don't need single target damage anymore, you need burst AoE now.

Shadow priest do 0 damage without major ramp up. Shadow priest don't even get invited to mythic+ dungeons without it being a carry.... At the same time Almost every top US guild (US INCLUDED) has 3x shadow priest ready to go for progression... Every class has its niche. If your raid leader is looking at the DPS chart going Oh the 30 million barrage damage on adds that could have died 3 seconds later and not matter IE eye boss and considering that good then your raid leader is an idiot......

For example on eye boss mythic Adds cannot die at the same time. Hunters the same class that are currently #1 on heroics logs and topping everyones dps chart on the boss are almost a Liability on that boss and I wouldn't be suprised to see some guilds bench their hunters for it.... You bring The best execute classes to Ursoc Like you bring the best Burst classes to eye boss like you bring the best cleave classes to xavius like you bring the best multidotters to dragons like you bring the best burst classes to break MC to First boss like you bring The Most Mobile classes and a warlock portal to spider boss....

Everything is relative. Overall logs are not..... break down who is doing the most damage to the right targets.....